"vintage"

[aramism]

there is such a stigma about older being better. i call BS on a lot of it.

is there anything older that elitist engineers DON'T consider better???

1176, la2a, tape, mics, effects units, 2ch DR, 5150 mkI, plexi heads, beat up paint chipped strats, ns10s, 70s neve, etc. etc. etc... just buy a time machine already lol


i was just thinking, i never hear any "eliteist prick" ever endorse or say anything good about the reissued la2a or a new SSL board... etc. etc.

you hear CLA talk all day about his sony boom box and sony tape machine and 14th century 1176s and im just saying has it ever occurred to anyone that nothing new is viewed as good??? isn't it crazy?

ps - i'm not calling CLA a prick by any stretch i him on an engineering level but i'm just saying. i'm sure people agree.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

14th century 1176's ftw But yeah, I've always kinda felt that way, especially since a lot of "vintage" stuff wasn't anything that spectacular when it came out (speaking very generally here, though mostly about guitars)

 

[aramism]

in 2040, when u47s from hitlers bunker just all stop working they are gonna be talking about reissued 2010 u87 ai set zs and how they sound so much warmer than anything else out there.

 

[timislegend]

the best wine is the oldest. the greatest steak is aged... world class scotch is distilled for almost 80 years... the oldest paintings are priceless.

we are drawn to prestige and luxury.

in terms of audio equipment:

you will notice a difference between a lot of originals and reissues. for instance, the la2a reissue uses a modified UTC transformer (which is now made by magnetika). granted the new transformers and components have lower distortion however the previous UTC transformers are brighter (sonically).

also, the c414uls vs. c414xls... km84 vs. km184... urie 1176 vs. reissue 1176ln etc. ... which are noticeably different from each other.

i'm not saying the new stuff is bad... i'm just saying that there is a reason why the old school stuff is considered world class gear and it's not because a bunch of old engineers gathered into a conference room and decided "older is better."

 

[ShredderForhire]

Electrical components also age and affect the sound in different ways.
That's why waves took cla's personal units to model instead of modeling new ones.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Someone needs to get an old dude (80+ years old) for new ball clap samples.
Jeff is just too young, his balls aren't vintage enough to truly produce that classic ball slap sound.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Some of it it is utter crap, some of it is absolutely fucking awesome. End of discussion.

 

[AHChris]

It depends... Old bluestripe 1176s are for example pretty noisy but they sound great. A good bluestripe clone or reissue might sound different but also good and with less noise. And also: two vintage units of the same series never sound the same. You might get a really bad one (and you´d be better off with a clone or a reissue) or a very good one.

 

[Trevoire520]

I think alot of it stems from the old guard using equipment for years and years, getting to know its nuances and what it works for, and then when a newer version comes out that's slightly different it isn't what they expect, and might have to adjust their long tried and tested techniques to adapt to the new gear, so they consider it not as good.

 

[greyskull]

there are two fools.
one who says..
"this is old therefore it is good" and the other says
"this is new therefore it is better"
I love my Vintage Marshall. But then again they DON'T make them, anymore so it's not like i had a choice...
Oh that and it's cheaper than the closest thing to a re-issue.
SCORE!

 

[crillemannen]

I get the feeling at over at GS there are two kinds of people. Those who record and those who collect instruments, mic, pre's etc. Im only interested in good pro-gear that works for my purposes

 

[xFkx]

wow, a gearslutz thread here on the sneap board

 

[ahjteam]

Well, if we take the time factor here to play, I can see why people like old stuff. The fact is that even back then 90% of the audiogear was shit, like it is today, but if you find an old guitar from 1960's or compressor from 1970's, it will most likely sound good, because the shitty models from back then have already made themselves unusable in one way or another.

 

[TravisW]

The one that baffles me is 70s Strats in particular. Every 70s Strat I ever played was pretty much a pos. 3-bolt necks move around, they lacquered the things so thick that you'd think they had been dipped. In the 90s, you could buy them for a few hundred bucks. Now, they're "Vintage", and people are creaming over their "vintage tone". I call shenanigans on the whole works.

 

[Pot]

Someone needs to get an old dude (80+ years old) for new ball clap samples.
Jeff is just too young, his balls aren't vintage enough to truly produce that classic ball slap sound.

 

[jeid]

The one that baffles me is 70s Strats in particular. Every 70s Strat I ever played was pretty much a pos. 3-bolt necks move around, they lacquered the things so thick that you'd think they had been dipped. In the 90s, you could buy them for a few hundred bucks. Now, they're "Vintage", and people are creaming over their "vintage tone". I call shenanigans on the whole works.

W.O.R.D! Couldn't agree more. 70's Strats used to cost a little bit more than the Standard Series Fenders at the time. It's silly. Look up some vintage Fender parts, there was a pickguard that went for crazy money.

Older is not always better. I'd like to sit some old gear and some clones beside each other, but the same signal through them on the same settings and see how they sound.

I think anyone would love to have a vintage 1176 in their studio... but I think anyone would love to have an 1176 in their studio, regardless of age or who made it. If you can afford vintage stuff, then great, but if not... there are clones that can do a great job.

 

[aramism]

look i have high analog gear and some "vintage" high end stuff so this whole post isn't meant to knock vintage... im not taking sides or starting a flame war... as a matter of fact i'm more of a hard headed conservative old school guy with many elements of life including music so if anything i go against some of what i believe in BUTTT my point wasn't to bring up an argument over what's better vintage or new.. my point was that im tired of people making it such an elite thing when it's not. i feel if CLA or andy wallace or whatever ONLY had brand new ssl boards and UA reissue compressors and stuff, i'm not event talking ITB mixing i mean just newer units it would still sound slammin and it's just relative taste at this point. a lot of it is just a hype and stigma i feel.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

A lot of it works like this:

• When you start getting into recording, you notice that you like a lot of records produced by [PRODUCER],
• You read up what gear they use, and you try to get hold of the same stuff,
• Because they are usually older than you, and they did the same thing with their inspirations, you end up getting gear 2/3/4 generations back,
• Because there are only a few people in any field that truly stand out, lots of people end up looking up to the same producers, and therefore look for the same gear, and it becomes "classic".

It's the same in most fields - photography is really bad for it too; everyone still want old lenses even though newer ones are lighter, faster to focus and have more precise glass elements. People still want to use film even though it's a pain in the arse and 99% of people can tell no difference between a film and digital print nowadays.

Electrical things are so mass produced and easily replaceable now that we don't hold them in the same regards anyway; people don't fix their own stuff now, and if something sounds bad they just sell it on and replace it. These things all used to be hand-made, in much smaller numbers, and they had to last a lifetime. When you keep using the same thing for years, you get to know it inside out - and even though it's covered in crud, temperamental, and smells faintly of goats, you love it to bits.

 

[Dan Korneff]

my point was that im tired of people making it such an elite thing when it's not.

Having designed and built some of my own gear over the past few years, I can honestly say that (to my ears) new gear doesnt sound half as good as some of the old stuff. Everyone seemed to hit a good point that vintage + aged components add character to a unit (mostly by adding distortion from dried out caps, etc..)
With that being said, these new designs are "technically" far superior on any graph or chart that can measure THD, SNR, bandwidth, etc... BUT dont forget that by doing so, you're eliminating all of the "character" and "vibe"
I've used an SSL G for 10+ years. The first time I sat behind an SSL J, I thought it was broken. I couldnt figure out which button to hit to make all the good stuff come back to life.

 

[Notuern]

The thing is that the old stuff held on to simplicity, which generally makes for a better tone.
As far as guitars go, i call bullshit on most of it though.. some of them had better materials, you just cant find that good wood today, but in most cases im still not buying it.

And now to vintage amps: Here you have HUGE differences.
Most of them where made point-to-point without master volumes, the solder had various contaminants that really makes a difference in tone(At least this is what a Swedish amp-builder told me.), the tubes where made differently from today and most of us know that vintage tubes really do sound allot better then modern ones, and the transformers where different from today(Sure they could be manufactured the same way, but they're not.).
I could without doubt tell the difference between a Marshall 1959SLP from '68 and one from 2010.

But in the end, i still agree about it.. old stuff gets overhyped just because its old.