Vinyl

[Valtiel]

Compact disc is a digital format.

that doesn't adress anything, the Disk itself is still analog, though it can only processed by digital data...
wikipedia even makes that distinction..
From analog to DIGITAL then back to analog
http://www.howstuffworks.com/cd.htm

But digital sampling (CDs in particular, even more pronounced in MP3 format) leaves spaces in the music that robs it of some of its essence.

I'm still waiting for proof on this...

 

[Valtiel]

quality pwnage.

no ones trying to start an argument PWNing fest, just trying to get to some understandings...

 

[Profanity]

Some people lead very sad lives.

 

[Sanzen]

that doesn't adress anything, the Disk itself is still analog, though it can only processed by digital data...
wikipedia even makes that distinction..
From analog to DIGITAL then back to analog
http://www.howstuffworks.com/cd.htm

You are a moron. Did you read the wiki article? Did you read how it talks about the sampling rates of audio on a CD? Have you ever heard anyone talk about the sampling rate on their Sgt. Pepper's album? Fuck man, I'll even use a article from the same site you linked to - notice the line,

When CDs were first introduced in the early 1980s, their single purpose in life was to hold music in a digital format.

dur. Now, to address your claim of "Cds r stil a analogue format!" - it looks like you just read that page and typed down anything with the word "analog". Again, let's look at a line from your article:

The conversion is done by a device called an analog-to-digital converter (ADC). To play back the music, the stream of numbers is converted back to an analog wave by a digital-to-analog converter (DAC).

Well, let's see. The music is converted from analog to digital to be put on a CD. When the music is played back, it's converted back to analog. Hmm...what's in between that? A DIGITAL FORMAT.

If you want to save face and say "but teh diskk is stil analogue!" then yay, go ahead, but it's just you trying to cover your ass. The audio contained on a CD is digital audio. please stop arguing, you're wrong buddy.

I'm still waiting for proof on this...

You'll probably be waiting on it a long time dude, I didn't even address that. You might want to ask the guy that actually said that.

 

[Valtiel]

You are a moron. Did you read the wiki article? Did you read

how it talks about the sampling rates of audio on a CD? Have you ever heard anyone talk about the sampling rate on their Sgt. Pepper's album? Fuck man, I'll even use a article from the same site you linked to - notice the line,

Okay, how does that show it's not also analog...

If you want to save face and say "but teh diskk is stil analogue!" then yay, go ahead, but it's just you trying to cover your ass. The audio contained on a CD is digital audio. please stop arguing, you're wrong buddy.

You have the entirely wrong face of my argument, you were saying they were completely digital, don't think for a second I was trying to make something out of it as me trying to refute the digital components, thats a straw man, I was but making it clear they are just as analog only with a digital middle man...

You'll probably be waiting on it a long time dude, I didn't even address that. You might want to ask the guy that actually said that.

Nuts I thought thats what you were adressing above, oh well I shall wait...

 

[telarc]

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[isolation_years]

i listen to my records and i buy them from mail orders, i dont listen to splatter vinyl or picture discs because it will ruin them, as long as it's a solid color, i listen to them, and im careful so as not to break them

 

[opethpainter]

well just think about this: CD's are dying while vinyls are still living...

 

[isolation_years]

excellent point ^

still going strong, they got it right the first time , it may be one of the most inconvenient ways of listening to music, but to the trained ear it's worth it. i for one have never heard metallica "ride the lightning" sound better

 

[To rid you disease]

lets not exagerate the sound difference though. music has for a good while now been recorded digitally and thus removed the sound quality aspect of the whole listening to vinyls rather than cds thing.

 

[isolation_years]

^excellent point, vinyl only really shines when the sound is recorded on analog tape, i also like it better in general, i have my ipod for when im out, but when i buy music i buy on vinyl, i rarely listen to cds so if im going to own it i might as well make it in an obscure medium

and btw telarc, your link doesn't work, so you'll have to fix it so the rest of us can see what product your pushing on us

 

[{-sapob-}]

Id get some vinyls if I had something to play them in.

actually one of my mates grandpappy, is a vietnam vet, and he still has his record player, and keeps it in mint condition.
Id buy it off him if i could.

But some things just dont have a price on them.

 

[lammoth]

Maybe its my age showing, but I highly recommend it. For the following reasons:



The hell are you talking about????
CD's are analog, they go from analog to digital back to analog via playing device...
and I've never heard of this, proove it...

dude see this
when you convert a continous sine wave(analog) to a discrete sine wave(digital). a continous wave will have one value for every smallest instance of time, but as computers do not have infinte memory we cannot have this for a discrete wave (from 0-1 there are infinite points if u get what i mean). so they have values of every say 1/1000000 point, and this number decides the sampling rate. so between 1/1000000 and 2/1000000 there is nothing, where as in a continous wave there will be something. this way there is data loss, which leads to loss in quality.
now when u say something is digital doesnt mean that it comes out digitally to us, we cannot understand 1's and 0's u know, so there is a digital to analog converter which converts the DIGITAL data stored onto the cd to analog sine wave so that we can hear it and understand.
hope u understood by this.
(ps i kinda suck at explaining, so try googling stuff and reading WHOLE articles before asking these doubts )

 

[Silhouette_01]

i love vinyl to look at it to listen to it to collect its great and its still going strong i to listen to some of my vinyls it depends picture discs can be ruined if you play them so i dont normally listen to those and splatter vinyl to ive heard can be ruined the same way and then the vinyl i have that is worth alot i dont listen to either but my parents gave me a bunch of their old records which was cool i listen to those and i listen to others to

 

[Crepuscularia]

so they have values of every say 1/1000000 point, and this number decides the sampling rate. so between 1/1000000 and 2/1000000 there is nothing, where as in a continous wave there will be something. this way there is data loss, which leads to loss in quality.

No, there is no loss in quality because no frequency information that is discernible to the human ear is lost. CD sample rate is at least 44.1kHz which means all frequencies up to half that are perfectly reproduced. There is usually a 'brick wall filter' up around 20kHz which is the limit of human hearing anyway.

The 'warm' sound of vinyl is due to limitations in the medium that are not present in digital, not the other way around.

 

[isolation_years]

^sometimes, but some vinyl are noticibly better. if you get the really good quality vinyl, it is a lot clearer.

i may not understand the frequencies very well though.

 

[lammoth]

No, there is no loss in quality because no frequency information that is discernible to the human ear is lost. CD sample rate is at least 44.1kHz which means all frequencies up to half that are perfectly reproduced. There is usually a 'brick wall filter' up around 20kHz which is the limit of human hearing anyway.

The 'warm' sound of vinyl is due to limitations in the medium that are not present in digital, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]

u sure man?? because i saw this in a textbook, and sampling rate isnt the same frequency as the frequency of the music coming out. The sampling rate, sample rate, or sampling frequency defines the number of samples per second (or per other unit) taken from a continuous signal to make a discrete signal. For time-domain signals, it can be measured in hertz (Hz). The inverse of the sampling frequency is the sampling period or sampling interval, which is the time between samples.(from wiki) so higher the sampling rate lesser information is lost.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_rate
u will understand, see the webpage

see the difference in the two signals, there is quite some data loss in the discrete(digital) signal, and only if the sampling rate in infinite, can it recreate the analog signal. (only the dots get stored as information in the discrete signal) if you dont beleive me take any mp3/wav and load it into audacity, and zoom the wave quite some until u can see dots which are joined by straight lines

 

[Kiwee23]

Youre right theres a quality loss because of the digital signal. No matter how big the music file would be there is ALWAYS loss. But you have a loss too everytime you copy a analogue device so i think digital is the better away.

But besides that you have a qualitiy loss on CDs because of the "shape" of the sound signals that some instruments do. Sometimes you have not just "round" signals as a frequenze. Sometimes you have signals that are nearly like rectangular signals. When you digitise these signals (you can make every signal you like if you only have enough different sinusoidal voltages) you need some sinusoidal voltages with a very high frequenzy (more than 20khz). On CDs theese signals are lost because you cut all frequencys over 20khz off.
So in some cases you will have qualitiy losses with some instruments that play very high notes. Unfortunatelly i dont know exactly which instruments...

Edit: Oh and plaese excuse that much technical language but its complicated to explain this in englisch...

 

[Crepuscularia]

iammoth, the picture you provided is only an intermediate stage. Once the digital signal is fed to a digital to analog converter, the reproduced signal looks exactly like the original assuming it was bandlimited to 20kHz, and any 'lost' frequencies above that range are indiscernible to the human ear anyway. From the same wiki page you quoted, see the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem.

Kiwee23, you're exactly right about the square wave, but again, any frequencies that make up that square wave that are above 20hz (far less for most people) will not be heard. I have heard some people say that instruments with high frequency content (e.g. cymbals) get 'smeared' on CD's... but that is hogwash because cymbals are only in the 16-17kHz range and therefore perfectly reproduced.

The most important determination in audio quality, iyam, is the quality of the recording itself (regardless of format) and the quality of the sound system, not whether it's vinyl, CD, MP3, etc....

 

[telarc]

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