Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I've tried the PSP Vintage Warmer for mastering. It sort of gave a nice touch to the sound, but I've yet to compare how it stacks up with pushing some analogue gear into headroom and getting a bit of onset-of-distortion love.
Vocals and downsampling
- Thread starter Brett - K A L I S I A
- Start date
MR NINE
Member
I mean I love it!
Oh! And you don't get the message "search for missing files" with analogue! And you don't need to defragment (pcwin)!.. But we learn to live with that!
He, he, he!
Oh! And you don't get the message "search for missing files" with analogue! And you don't need to defragment (pcwin)!.. But we learn to live with that!
He, he, he!
Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral
we are children of god
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
At least you can back up properley now!! I've seen 2" tape snap before, also wear out, + try playing a session from 10 years ago without an oven around. I wonder what everyone would be saying if the sonics were reversed, if the media wasn't an issue and we'd got used to the sound of digital first... I actually found it very unerving going back to 2" tape, a real lack of top end, and you've also got the problem that 2 machines can be totally different even when lined up.
Nitronium Blood
UM BOARDS' JESTER
This is exactly what I think about when I hear people talk about 'warmth' regarding tape.Andy Sneap said:
Hey you want similar warm sounding records, people? Purchase an audio casette copy of any album, [if you can find one] and listen to it with DOLBY NR set to ON. Warmth.
Andy Sneap said:
If stored properly tape can last 70+ years. There's people remastering tapes from before the 1930's...
I've never had a problem with the top end, maybe you're just used to the harsh brightness of digital recordings.
Studer A827 2"
Otari MTR90 2"
Studer 820 2"
Doesn't look like a lack of top end to me, using tones from a Loftech TS-1 frequency generator recorded to Ampex/Quantegy 499 tape.
Some food for thought though. I use ProTools all the time, I like it a lot. Digital is here to stay but I still love Analogue gear.
But think about this, Digital is sampled, it leaves no real room for improvement once recorded. Say next year we have a 24bit/44.1 playback standard everyone listens to which is what a lot of people here record at. In 5 years we have a 48bit/220.5k standard. Will the old digital recording sound better? Most likely not. But Analogue stuff sounds better the higher the bit rate/fs it's tranferred to digitally.
Nitronium Blood said:Hey you want similar warm sounding records, people? Purchase an audio casette copy of any album, [if you can find one] and listen to it with DOLBY NR set to ON. Warmth.
Cassettes aren't a very good analogy actually. From what I've read in a few books, the decks made to reproduce tapes aren't well maintained or aligned. This is why when you record a CD onto a blank tape it usually sounds better than the store bought cassette album.
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
show me a reel of tape thats 70 years old that doesnt need baking! I spent the first 10 years of my recording career tracking on nothing else but 2" tape and so many times I'd be having to re allign those damn machines. I remember having to print a mix on Machine Heads The More Things Change cause we were losing top end so badly, we daren't play it anymore. But if its your thing, good for you, you'll get a cheap studer if you look out, no one wants them at the mo.
Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral
we are children of god
I mentioned this to james the other day... someone mentioned to me that Fredrik Nordstrom still uses his Studer to track drums... can anyone varify that?
MR NINE
Member
I do work with NTFS in my pcwin AMD Athlon 2.6 with a Digi002 in my own studio. And with a Mac G4 1.8 in the studio I work at day by day!Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral said:
Guess what?! We have an Otari Mx80 here and I love it!!! AH!
MR NINE
Member
SPLASTiK said:If stored properly tape can last 70+ years. There's people remastering tapes from before the 1930's...
I've never had a problem with the top end, maybe you're just used to the harsh brightness of digital recordings.
Studer A827 2"
Otari MTR90 2"
Studer 820 2"
Doesn't look like a lack of top end to me, using tones from a Loftech TS-1 frequency generator recorded to Ampex/Quantegy 499 tape.
Some food for thought though. I use ProTools all the time, I like it a lot. Digital is here to stay but I still love Analogue gear.
But think about this, Digital is sampled, it leaves no real room for improvement once recorded. Say next year we have a 24bit/44.1 playback standard everyone listens to which is what a lot of people here record at. In 5 years we have a 48bit/220.5k standard. Will the old digital recording sound better? Most likely not. But Analogue stuff sounds better the higher the bit rate/fs it's tranferred to digitally.
Ouch! :Spin:
Earing is believing!!!
Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral
we are children of god
wha??.. anyone can post graphics (see below) or record a test tone and look at it one minute later on an analyzer...MR NINE said:
but in the real world of using 2 inch in day-to-day recording, tape sheds oxide (see above) and as it does high frequencies slowly but surely go "bye bye". the above pic is an extreme example but that just goes to prove my point: anyone can post graphics but they don't necessarily have anything to do with everday usage.... those test-tone created graphs comparing 2 inch machines are a good example of what i mean. i'm sure those readings are accurate, taken as they were immediately following the recording of the test tones....i'd lke to see those same types of graphs created by measuring the same tape and test tone recording after rewinding and playing over and over again for 8 hours a day over two weeks. that would be a modest approximation of the use a typical tape gets on a real world recording session.
i have very clear and not-so-fond memories of how i felt whenever Scott Burns or Colin Richardson would say something like, "we better get this done soon, the highs are going", to me. yeah, there are work-arounds, like making a slave reel and bouncing a 2 track mix of drums to it and then working just on that for the overdubs...but then what if the bassist later needs to hear more kick, for instance? tough. and the same oxide shedding/high frequency losing process still happens anyway..it's just lessened.
i personally like the sound of analog tape compression, especially on drum tracks... but i just can no longer be bothered to deal with all the other problems related to using 2 inch... i'm a DAW kind of guy these days and that is both a practical AND artistic choice.
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
Mx80!!!, if you like that then you definately should be trying to pick up a studer at the mo, there's no comparison between those machines. Otari's worked ok (note: passed tense haha) While we're all bitching each other out over this on something we obviously won't agree on, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned ips, over biasing and dobly (sic) seeing as sample rate seems such a big issue. I forgot to mention bad batches of tape also in my cons list. Hey, remember not to print anything too loud on track 23, wouldn't want Mr Smpte to get upset would we.
Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral
we are children of god
I'm looking for a funny story i read about tape recently.
Involving mistaking the night befores cut for "Gash tape"...
found it...
Here's a story for you: "Gash tape" is what you call the 2-3 minutes of blank tape on a metal spool that you have left over at the end of a blank reel of master recording tape. Tape spools are expensive, and so if you need one quickly in the studio, if you see a tape spool with some "gash" on it lying around, you just pick up a razor blade, poke it through the hole in the tape spool, and slice straight through the layers of tape to the hub. All of the spare blank tape falls in little bits onto the floor or into the dustbin, and you've got yourself a nice empty metal spool in a hurry. In a London Recording Studio one morning, the bleary-eyed Producer and Engineer staggered into the studio after a late night mix the night before, only to find that the Tape-Op had just chopped last nights Marvin Gaye master mix into 6 inch pieces, mistaking it for "gash".
from: http://www.audiomelody.com/Tutorials/MixingStep10.htm
Involving mistaking the night befores cut for "Gash tape"...
found it...
Here's a story for you: "Gash tape" is what you call the 2-3 minutes of blank tape on a metal spool that you have left over at the end of a blank reel of master recording tape. Tape spools are expensive, and so if you need one quickly in the studio, if you see a tape spool with some "gash" on it lying around, you just pick up a razor blade, poke it through the hole in the tape spool, and slice straight through the layers of tape to the hub. All of the spare blank tape falls in little bits onto the floor or into the dustbin, and you've got yourself a nice empty metal spool in a hurry. In a London Recording Studio one morning, the bleary-eyed Producer and Engineer staggered into the studio after a late night mix the night before, only to find that the Tape-Op had just chopped last nights Marvin Gaye master mix into 6 inch pieces, mistaking it for "gash".
from: http://www.audiomelody.com/Tutorials/MixingStep10.htm
Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral
we are children of god
James Murphy said:wha??.. anyone can post graphics (see below) or record a test tone and look at it one minute later on an analyzer...
but in the real world of using 2 inch in day-to-day recording, tape sheds oxide (see above) and as it does high frequencies slowly but surely go "bye bye". the above pic is an extreme example but that just goes to prove my point: anyone can post graphics but they don't necessarily have anything to do with everday usage.... those test-tone created graphs comparing 2 inch machines are a good example of what i mean. i'm sure those readings are accuratel, taken as they were immediately following the recording of the test tones....i'd lke to see those same types of graphs created by measuring the same tape and test tone recording after rewinding and playing over and over again for 8 hours and day over two weeks. that would be a modest approximation of the use a typical tape gets on a real world recording session.
i have very clear and not-so-fond memories of how i felt whenever Scott Burns or Colin Richardson would say something like, "we better get this done soon, the highs are going", to me. yeah, there are work-arounds, like making a slave reel and bouncing a 2 track mix of drums to it and then working just on that for the overdubs...but then what if the bassist later needs to hear more kick, for instance? tough. and the same oxide shedding/high frequency losing process still happens anyway..it's just lessened.
i personally like the sound of analog tape compression, especially on drum tracks... but i just can no longer be bothered to deal with all the other problems related to using 2 inch... i'm a DAW kind of guy these days and that is both a practical AND artistic choice.
That's metal! (yes this is a terrible pun!)
i fixed a couple typos that have been bothering me since i posted this.James Murphy said:wha??.. anyone can post graphics (see below) or record a test tone and look at it one minute later on an analyzer...
but in the real world of using 2 inch in day-to-day recording, tape sheds oxide (see above) and as it does high frequencies slowly but surely go "bye bye". the above pic is an extreme example but that just goes to prove my point: anyone can post graphics but they don't necessarily have anything to do with everday usage.... those test-tone created graphs comparing 2 inch machines are a good example of what i mean. i'm sure those readings are accurate, taken as they were immediately following the recording of the test tones....i'd lke to see those same types of graphs created by measuring the same tape and test tone recording after rewinding and playing over and over again for 8 hours a day over two weeks. that would be a modest approximation of the use a typical tape gets on a real world recording session.
i have very clear and not-so-fond memories of how i felt whenever Scott Burns or Colin Richardson would say something like, "we better get this done soon, the highs are going", to me. yeah, there are work-arounds, like making a slave reel and bouncing a 2 track mix of drums to it and then working just on that for the overdubs...but then what if the bassist later needs to hear more kick, for instance? tough. and the same oxide shedding/high frequency losing process still happens anyway..it's just lessened.
i personally like the sound of analog tape compression, especially on drum tracks... but i just can no longer be bothered to deal with all the other problems related to using 2 inch... i'm a DAW kind of guy these days and that is both a practical AND artistic choice.
It's fun arguing with your heroes
Yeah, James (and Andy as well) you make some good valid points, a lot of the old analogue dinosaurs like say Steve Albini, track albums in a very few number of days usually which is probably why the wear is much much less.
Analogue Tape Compression is a thing of beauty, especially on drums. Heavy Guitars can sound very pleasant as well.
I remember an AES seminar I atteneded with a mastering engineer a year ago and he was saying drums should always be tracked analogue if the time/budget is available. Everything else digital is about equal in most all respects.
I'm still a DAW guy too, well, I like to edit in ProTools, I prefer tracking with a RADAR, sounds better to me (I never really did say Analogue was better than Digital in my posts if you noticed, I said stuff like this is why Analogue is better
). It is more practical in most every way (gotta love UNDO), but there's just something about that sound and tape compression analogue gives, and the whole hands on feeling of working with something which I truly love that a few mouse clicks doesn't really provide. Digital is also nice because it opens doors to many more people who otherwise wouldn't be able to record their own stuff affordably. And at the end of the session you have a bunch of rolls of tape to show your hard-work, instead of just a harddrive and some backup DVD's. It's just kind of saddenning that the old machines are fading away. In a couple years when they're dirt dirt cheap I'll definately be picking up a Studer.
