Weird "Metal Edge" Issue

[Pellaz]

While you're at the store, pick up his Ocean Machine CD while you're there. It's my favorite of his solo discs, although it's a close race...'course, it's also my single favorite CD of all time.

 

[aztattooedsean]

I collect drumsticks as drumming is my favorite part of all bands I follow. Well, Gene Hoglan gave me one while he toured with Death. That stick, it is like it came from one of the big Red Wood trees in California!!

 

[Regor]

Oh, and judging a metal muzo solely by his hair -- or lack thereof -- is silly.

What part of "I listened to some of his solo and SYL stuff" did you not read?

 

[Regor]

Last but not least, listen to any one single album NOT from SYL, but the Devin Townsend Band, then listen to another. And another. And keep going until you've finished the catalog. No two sound the same. His focus is on musicianship and WRITING songs, not just wank, shred, and wank some more....

Ok first, why would I listen to ALL of his stuff if I didn't like ANY of it? I've heard about 15 songs or so years ago, and didn't care for any of it. I wanted to listen to hear if they're worth listening to, but they're not.

And if no two albums sounded the same, then why would you keep buying them? If I wanted to hear different music by the same band, I'd buy different bands, not the same band. Ever notice when a band no longer sounds like themselves, they lose favor with the fans? (Need I say Metallica??)

The stuff I heard from DT sounded just like Ministry... and if I wanted to hear Ministry, I'd listen to Ministry.

Bands like Trivium, Shadows Fall, In Flames, Nevermore, Testament, Metallica, Megadeth, and Iced Earth have way better song writing skills than DT. I'm a rhythm guitarist, so the guitar work has to be first, and DT's is just sub-par compared to the aforementioned bands. Sorry, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, no matter how much you don't like it.

 

[dargormudshark]

Ok first, why would I listen to ALL of his stuff if I didn't like ANY of it? I've heard about 15 songs or so years ago, and didn't care for any of it. I wanted to listen to hear if they're worth listening to, but they're not.

And if no two albums sounded the same, then why would you keep buying them? If I wanted to hear different music by the same band, I'd buy different bands, not the same band. Ever notice when a band no longer sounds like themselves, they lose favor with the fans? (Need I say Metallica??)

The stuff I heard from DT sounded just like Ministry... and if I wanted to hear Ministry, I'd listen to Ministry.

Bands like Trivium, Shadows Fall, In Flames, Nevermore, Testament, Metallica, Megadeth, and Iced Earth have way better song writing skills than DT. I'm a rhythm guitarist, so the guitar work has to be first, and DT's is just sub-par compared to the aforementioned bands. Sorry, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, no matter how much you don't like it.

You say the guitar work has to be first but yet you like Metallica? I don't care if whether you like Devy or not, but who says you have to buy the albums??? There is a thing called downloading, i'm not saying dl his stuff and not buy it if you like it( I wouldn't think anybody on this board would do that to any artist) but dl a few songs from each album. I do that with tons of bands all the time, now given I am not able to pick up the cd right away due to my financial slump I will eventually. Now, I don't see why you should bother at this point because guitar-work is not the for front for his music, so i'm almost 100% sure you would not like it.

 

[Ruthven]

While you're at the store, pick up his Ocean Machine CD while you're there. It's my favorite of his solo discs, although it's a close race...'course, it's also my single favorite CD of all time.

"Ocean Machine" is one of the best progressive metal albums I have ever heard.

 

[BenMech]

While you're at the store, pick up his Ocean Machine CD while you're there. It's my favorite of his solo discs, although it's a close race...'course, it's also my single favorite CD of all time.

Keep dropping that knowledge on the students, for they should learn

 

[Regor]

You say the guitar work has to be first but yet you like Metallica?

Dude, alright, that statement right there takes away ANY and ALL credibility you have towards guitar related music. If you think that anything from Kill 'Em All thru ...And Justice is not awesome guitar work, then you know jack shyt about playing guitar.

And like I said, I already got a hold of SEVERAL songs from his collection... and didn't care for any of it. I already did what you said to do. And it's lame.

 

[Pellaz]

And a skullet is definately NOT metal. Devin is about as metal as Neil Diamond.

What part of that passage isn't silly?



BTW, the story goes that Devin lost some of his hair because he tore it out. He didn't lose it because he's old or whatever...at one point he was pretty psycho -- Bi-polar Disorder/Manic Depression -- and ripped his hair out. THAT's pretty metal. Having it not grow back is unfortunate, but not unmetal.

 

[batmura]

I have all Devin Townsend and SYL albums and like them, but I certainly lean towards his solo material more.

Terria and Ocean Machine followed by Infinity are mindblowing masterpieces. The production on Terria reveals itself in layers, with texture after texture, and incredible songwriting. His voice is godly, though not in the technical sense. You'd have to refer to Infinity or SYL's City to see what he is actually capable of. He is easily among the best vocalists out there in my opinion and right up there with the likes of Daniel Gildenlow, Mike Patton, Garm, and Dan Swano, to name a few.

City is one of the heaviest and most chaoitc albums I own - granted it took me over two years to fully grasp it, now I consider it an absolute masterpiece. It's not for everyone; there are even Devin Townsend fans that don't like his stuff with SYL, but if you can get into it, you'll be hooked.

I'd recommend starting with Ocean Machine, his solo debut. Play it non-stop for 6 months, and if you're open-minded, each spin will grow better on you. Then go for Terria, quite possibly my favourite prog solo album along with Dan Swano's Moontower.

Yes, Devin is THAT good.

NP: Freak Neil Inc. - Characters

 

[metal71]

Dude, alright, that statement right there takes away ANY and ALL credibility you have towards guitar related music. If you think that anything from Kill 'Em All thru ...And Justice is not awesome guitar work, then you know jack shyt about playing guitar.

And like I said, I already got a hold of SEVERAL songs from his collection... and didn't care for any of it. I already did what you said to do. And it's lame.

I'm going with Dargormudshark on this one. As a fan, I love the old Metallica. As for the guitar, he's right. It's NOT awesome guitar work. It's just simply constructed riffs and solos played fast. Power chords and pentatonic scales all the way. And lest you think I don't know 'jack shyt' about guitar either, I'll inform you I have a 4 year degree in music, having studied jazz and classical guitar, then teaching for 6 years afterward. Copping Metallica riffs and licks is where most aspiring metal guitarists start. Townsend's level of inventive writing and playing is far beyond what most guitarists will ever even comprehend, much less achieve.

You must be a bass player.

 

[Regor]

I'm going with Dargormudshark on this one. As a fan, I love the old Metallica. As for the guitar, he's right. It's NOT awesome guitar work. It's just simply constructed riffs and solos played fast. Power chords and pentatonic scales all the way. And lest you think I don't know 'jack shyt' about guitar either, I'll inform you I have a 4 year degree in music, having studied jazz and classical guitar, then teaching for 6 years afterward. Copping Metallica riffs and licks is where most aspiring metal guitarists start. Townsend's level of inventive writing and playing is far beyond what most guitarists will ever even comprehend, much less achieve.

You must be a bass player.

First off, Guitar player for 13 years.

Secondly, ask any guitarist who picked up a guitar and plays metal since the major label release of Metallica's work and see if any of them DON'T list Metallica as an influence. It's not the 'technicality' of Metallica's songs... it's the songs as a whole. Fast, aggressive, WELL written, catchy, etc etc. The songs are a STAPLE in metal music. Pull out a Metallica cover in a bar and people go crazy. We just played a show Saturday night where we did Seek & Destroy and One and the guitarist for the band that followed us was right at the front of the stage surprised as hell and screamin' at me because we were playing Metallica.

I'ma default to Type O Negative on this one: "Don't mistake lack of talent for genius"

As for your "4 year degree"? I've got a 4yr degree in Biology... guess what? Does that make me an expert? No, shit I'm working as a Chemist right now. Study it all you want, teach it all you want. Do you play guitar? Then I'm not giving you any credit on knowing what an awesome guitar riff is until you try playing Master of Puppets CORRECTLY (by correctly I mean all down strokes, no alternate picking). When you can do that without getting tired, and can tell me that isn't one of the greatest metal riffs of all time, then I'll believe you have some credibility.

I'm not looking to make enemies here, seriously. But try 'living' it before you become an expert. I've got a 13yr degree in metal. I don't need to know classical and jazz to know Devin is not that metal.


Oh, and being a Biologist... if he tore his hair out and it didn't grow back... it's because he has male pattern baldness and it wouldn't grow back in the first place. If you ripped your hair out right now, it'll grow back. Ever pluck the middle of your eyebrows or some nose hairs out? Did they grow back? Yes, that's how the body works. So that line of him tearing it out and not growing back is A) a lie and B) pretty stupid, not metal.

Thank you and have a nice day

 

[booB]

I'ma default to Type O Negative on this one: "Don't mistake lack of talent for genius"

I'm going to default to myself for my reply: "Don't mistake your dislike of music for lack of talent on the part of the musician." This is a common mistake, especially among metal-heads; so many people love to say "this sucks", when they REALLY should be saying "I don't like this". The genius is there, whether you see/appreciate it or not.

I don't need to know classical and jazz to know Devin is not that metal.

Sure, he's not "specifically" metal, but Devin has a wide array of different musical influences, which is not something you can say for most metal musicians. Perhaps this is where his true genius comes from, and perhaps it's the reason you can't get into him. I realize that this isn't quite what you guys are talking about, but it's food for thought, nonetheless.

I've got a 13yr degree in metal. I don't need to know classical and jazz to know Devin is not that metal.

How long do you think the guys in KoRn have been playing? Do you consider them to be experts in metal? I hope not. Longevity doesn't make you an expert in "what-is-metal-and-what-is-not", either.

Oh, and being a Biologist... if he tore his hair out and it didn't grow back... it's because he has male pattern baldness and it wouldn't grow back in the first place. If you ripped your hair out right now, it'll grow back. Ever pluck the middle of your eyebrows or some nose hairs out? Did they grow back? Yes, that's how the body works. So that line of him tearing it out and not growing back is A) a lie and B) pretty stupid, not metal.

Okay, doctor... if he injured his hair follicles with the tearing out of his hair, then it might not grow back. This happens. However, your assessment of male pattern baldness is probably correct; this doesn't change the fact that he may have torn his hair out, though. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

I believe that the story about the hair being pulled out is true, if read an interview with him, he says that he is on a couple of different medications and quits taking them when he is writing a new album or something like that.

http://www.blistering.com/fastpage/fpengine.php/link/1/templateid/10362/tempidx/5/menuid/3

 

[Ruthven]

It's not the 'technicality' of Metallica's songs... it's the songs as a whole. Fast, aggressive, WELL written, catchy, etc etc.

Completely agree. Metallica's classics are immediately distinctive, which is an achievement in and of itself.

and...

This is a common mistake, especially among metal-heads; so many people love to say "this sucks", when they REALLY should be saying "I don't like this".

I could not have said that better my own self.

 

[Regor]

Okay, doctor... if he injured his hair follicles with the tearing out of his hair, then it might not grow back. This happens. However, your assessment of male pattern baldness is probably correct; this doesn't change the fact that he may have torn his hair out, though. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Yes, IF he injured himself that way, they might not grow back. But think about this, would ripping your hair out with your bare hands be any different than getting a bikini wax? And girls don't just get 1 wax and that's it for life. Otherwise there wouldn't be all these ads for 'permanent laser hair removal' centers, and the like. You'd have to tear out deep layers of your skin to permanently fuck up your hair's roots.

(Not to be gross, but everyone knows I had cancer. And the scar from where I had my tumor removed constantly gets ingrown hairs which I constantly have to pluck out... and they keep growing back. Even if I get the folicle with the hair)


And yeah, I prolly should just say "I don't like him" and be done with it. But it's more than just 'not liking'. There's a lot of bands I don't like, but I don't go off on them. I just don't understand where his 'genius' moniker comes from. Because FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD I see nothing 'genius' about it.

 

[metal71]

First off, Guitar player for 13 years.

Secondly, ask any guitarist who picked up a guitar and plays metal since the major label release of Metallica's work and see if any of them DON'T list Metallica as an influence. It's not the 'technicality' of Metallica's songs... it's the songs as a whole. Fast, aggressive, WELL written, catchy, etc etc. The songs are a STAPLE in metal music. Pull out a Metallica cover in a bar and people go crazy. We just played a show Saturday night where we did Seek & Destroy and One and the guitarist for the band that followed us was right at the front of the stage surprised as hell and screamin' at me because we were playing Metallica.

I'ma default to Type O Negative on this one: "Don't mistake lack of talent for genius"

As for your "4 year degree"? I've got a 4yr degree in Biology... guess what? Does that make me an expert? No, shit I'm working as a Chemist right now. Study it all you want, teach it all you want. Do you play guitar? Then I'm not giving you any credit on knowing what an awesome guitar riff is until you try playing Master of Puppets CORRECTLY (by correctly I mean all down strokes, no alternate picking). When you can do that without getting tired, and can tell me that isn't one of the greatest metal riffs of all time, then I'll believe you have some credibility.

I'm not looking to make enemies here, seriously. But try 'living' it before you become an expert. I've got a 13yr degree in metal. I don't need to know classical and jazz to know Devin is not that metal.


Oh, and being a Biologist... if he tore his hair out and it didn't grow back... it's because he has male pattern baldness and it wouldn't grow back in the first place. If you ripped your hair out right now, it'll grow back. Ever pluck the middle of your eyebrows or some nose hairs out? Did they grow back? Yes, that's how the body works. So that line of him tearing it out and not growing back is A) a lie and B) pretty stupid, not metal.

Thank you and have a nice day

Man, I must not have made myself as clear as I thought I did. What the hell did you think I meant when I said I studied guitar?!? Did you envision me stalking Stratocasters in their own wild habitat, observing their mating habits and tagging them for migratory patterns? I think most would have gotten what I meant, that is, that I PLAY guitar. I didn't just sit there through years of school looking at them under microscopes. I think the biologist in you has altered your perception. Nice field, by the way. Biology was actually my favorite course outside of music, and I seriously considered marine biology as a major at one time. But I digress....

I started playing guitar at age 9. I'm now 33, and still play, though I'm no longer interested in sleeping in vans and playing for beer money, and my waist-length hair finally got to be a too much a pain in the ass. So, I now keep short hair and a mortgage payment. As for my studies, don't think I didn't 'live' metal... It's not like I studied jazz and classical because they were my first preference. Try finding a university that offers classes on 'metal theory', or 'metal ensemble'. Good luck. Nope, I played exclusively in rock and metal bands ranging from classic to thrash to prog. But mostly just metal.

On your points, AGAIN, I'll state that I too DIG Metallica, especially old Metallica. But I don't dig someone slamming another equally talented (if not more) artist simply because your tastes are different. And, I stand by my statement; Metallica are not rocket scientists, or biologists, for that matter, although I'll give them credit on their much maligned 'Load/Re-Load' era; at least they tried to grow in new musical directions, even as their fans railed against them. Again, nothing but power chords and pentatonics in their early stuff. NOTHING wrong with that, sometimes that's all you need to make a great statement. And they executed with great precision and energy. Having said that, I look at it like this: there's a reason the Beatles, with their stripped-down songs, continue to sell millions of records. They wrote great songs, and more complex than many realize. And I can say that out of respect while not really liking much of their stuff. You should try that. And consider this- any player can drill endlessly to develop the 'muscle memory' to play fast and clean. Anything you do over and over again, you're going to get good at. That includes shredding on the guitar. However, most musicians can spend their whole life scouring the depths of their own creative psyche trying to come up with one great song that resonates with people on some level deeper than "hey, cool riff, dude!", and never get there. That's why there's a lot of great players out there NOT making a living, and someone like Kurt Cobain, who could barely play his instrument, sold millions of records. I think that's the difference between Metallica and Townsend. Both great (to me), but for very different reasons.

Last, I'm not out to make enemies, either. I've got more pressing things on my schedule. I'd just prefer when someone (especially a musician) doesn't like a particular artist, they just say it like that, instead of slamming that artist and anyone who likes them, as you did with dargormudshark. It's music, and you'll never change a person's mind about something so personal to that individual.

Now, you go have a nice day, too.

 

[Regor]

Man, I must not have made myself as clear as I thought I did. What the hell did you think I meant when I said I studied guitar?!? Did you envision me stalking Stratocasters in their own wild habitat, observing their mating habits and tagging them for migratory patterns? I think most would have gotten what I meant, that is, that I PLAY guitar. I didn't just sit there through years of school looking at them under microscopes. I think the biologist in you has altered your perception. Nice field, by the way. Biology was actually my favorite course outside of music, and I seriously considered marine biology as a major at one time. But I digress....

I started playing guitar at age 9. I'm now 33, and still play, though I'm no longer interested in sleeping in vans and playing for beer money, and my waist-length hair finally got to be a too much a pain in the ass. So, I now keep short hair and a mortgage payment. As for my studies, don't think I didn't 'live' metal... It's not like I studied jazz and classical because they were my first preference. Try finding a university that offers classes on 'metal theory', or 'metal ensemble'. Good luck. Nope, I played exclusively in rock and metal bands ranging from classic to thrash to prog. But mostly just metal.

On your points, AGAIN, I'll state that I too DIG Metallica, especially old Metallica. But I don't dig someone slamming another equally talented (if not more) artist simply because your tastes are different. And, I stand by my statement; Metallica are not rocket scientists, or biologists, for that matter, although I'll give them credit on their much maligned 'Load/Re-Load' era; at least they tried to grow in new musical directions, even as their fans railed against them. Again, nothing but power chords and pentatonics in their early stuff. NOTHING wrong with that, sometimes that's all you need to make a great statement. And they executed with great precision and energy. Having said that, I look at it like this: there's a reason the Beatles, with their stripped-down songs, continue to sell millions of records. They wrote great songs, and more complex than many realize. And I can say that out of respect while not really liking much of their stuff. You should try that. And consider this- any player can drill endlessly to develop the 'muscle memory' to play fast and clean. Anything you do over and over again, you're going to get good at. That includes shredding on the guitar. However, most musicians can spend their whole life scouring the depths of their own creative psyche trying to come up with one great song that resonates with people on some level deeper than "hey, cool riff, dude!", and never get there. That's why there's a lot of great players out there NOT making a living, and someone like Kurt Cobain, who could barely play his instrument, sold millions of records. I think that's the difference between Metallica and Townsend. Both great (to me), but for very different reasons.

Last, I'm not out to make enemies, either. I've got more pressing things on my schedule. I'd just prefer when someone (especially a musician) doesn't like a particular artist, they just say it like that, instead of slamming that artist and anyone who likes them, as you did with dargormudshark. It's music, and you'll never change a person's mind about something so personal to that individual.

Now, you go have a nice day, too.

Sorry dude, but if you go back and read your post, you said nothing about actually playing guitar. You merely stated that you had a 4 year degree in music. Not in guitar, not that you played guitar. Just a degree in music. Coulda meant you studied anything (like, say, the Dulcimer )

I guess my 'problem' with accepting his music is the way I look at the guitar. If I can't or have trouble playing it, I give it lots of respect as being 'great' guitar work. And since I don't see his work as being that hard to play, I don't see the 'genius' in it. Do you see what I mean?


On second thought... show me. Tell me what SONG I should listen to to see the 'genius' that is Devin. Give me an example of his best work that's so inventive that I should become a fan. I'll give it a listen to with an open mind. But if it sux just like the rest of what I heard, I'ma be truthful. If I dig it, I'll say so. I'm always looking for new bands (picked up Biomechanical at PP... you want inventive?? Shit! That's the bee's knees right there!)

 

[booB]

Did you envision me stalking Stratocasters in their own wild habitat, observing their mating habits and tagging them for migratory patterns?

You win the Great Visual of the Day award. Congratulations!

 

[metal71]

Thank you!

And you, (I've always meant to tell you this), have the COOLEST signature. I still laugh when I see it.