What are other 2004 year end lists looking like?

[lurch70]

i don't know ... just remember seeing some tshirt with some assinine statement on it in the review thread of the cd ... which has now dissapeared from the RC Review forum.

i don't mind the music, but the ignorance of such individuals irks me ... and really see no reason to promote their cause.

 

[J.]

Erik would know more about it than me, but I believe Hate Forest is the NS band, not Drudkh.

And I wouldn't worry about "promoting their cause" as I'm sure the dime or nickel they get from a CD sale doesn't go to recruiting hate-filled teenies.

 

[SonOfNun]

i don't mind the music, but the ignorance of such individuals irks me ... and really see no reason to promote their cause.

I don't get this. It's hypocritical to "support the cause" of anti-christian or anti-religion bands who'd like to see all such people removed from the planet and then to piss on bands who want to eliminate a group of people because of their race. There is no difference, bigotry is pretty much bigotry. Hating a group of people for what they believe in or the way they look shouldn't provoke such strangely different views simply because we can identify with one group more than another. If you buy albums hailing Satan or God, black or white, it shouldn't really matter and I think it's hilarious that people draw the line with NSBM. I know you said "i don't mind the music" and that's good, because it's all that matters, but don't let an agenda get in the way of good music.

As a note, this is a general rant on the subject and is aimed at anyone who has a problem with NSBM bands because of their "racist views" and not just lurch. Some people may get upset over racial issues because of personal experience or something of the sort, but that makes it no more acceptable if you can still listen to music promoting religious intolerance. Take one route or the other, not both. [/rant]

 

[Ayeka]

i don't know ... just remember seeing some tshirt with some assinine statement on it in the review thread of the cd ... which has now dissapeared from the RC Review forum.

i don't mind the music, but the ignorance of such individuals irks me ... and really see no reason to promote their cause.

How do you know they're ignorant?

Anyway...I totally forgot about Motorhead and Saxon releases and I guess didn't really care enough to get round to the new Deicide. Ah well, bugger boo...

 

[lurch70]

the way I look at it ... religion is a choice ... something you follow ...
your race, your color ... it is something you cannot change.

just the same way because I am tall, I cannot be lumped in the same category as a fat person. I cannot help the way I am, but a fat person 90% of the time can change.

you know what I am getting at?

 

[Nico]

HailMetal.com

1. Quo Vadis - Defiant Imagination
2. The Chasm - The Spell of Retribution
3. Arsis - A Celebration of Guilt
4. Exodus - Tempo of the Damned
5. Drudkh - Autumn Aurora
6. Necrophagist - Epitaph
7. Bloodbath - Nightmares Made Flesh
8. Deathspell Omega - Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice
9. Edguy - Hellfire Club
10. Dragonforce - Sonic Firestorm

I was pretty happy with that personaly.

 

[SonOfNun]

I think it's irrelevant. If you can "support" the annihilation of one group of people, then I think its pretty retarded to get into an uproar if someone wants to do so using race as a factor. Whether they chose to be that way or not really shouldn't be much of a factor in whether that idea gains your support or not. Maybe some people are lazy or oblivious and could change, but that doesn't mean that they should be judged any lighter or harder than people who can't change. Who's to say that fat catholics are any worse people than tall mexicans? But I think I'm getting away from the point here. We're talking about listening to tunes, not being the next Hitler anway, so I don't know why people drag the two into each other and refuse to listen to a band because of beliefs.

In the end, it's MUSIC. I think it is simply dumb for someone to put off a band because of their LYRICS. The logic isn't there. Whether or not you listen to a band's music should have absoleutely nothing to do with whether you agree with their personal ideas or beliefs. If we listened to music to have the lyrics, we all might as well go read fucking poetry. Whether a band's lyrics discuss religion, politics, racism, surfboarding or gay sex, who gives a shit?

 

[Ayeka]

the way I look at it ... religion is a choice ... something you follow ...
your race, your color ... it is something you cannot change.

just the same way because I am tall, I cannot be lumped in the same category as a fat person. I cannot help the way I am, but a fat person 90% of the time can change.

you know what I am getting at?

Yeah yeah, sure...but that's not quite the whole deal. But a lot of NS bands focus more on pride and heritage, which is hardly something to hold against them. There's not many I've actually heard that are overtly "shoot the fucking my pals, shoot them fucking all etc" so to dismiss them all out of hand is kind of a primary school attitude. But never mind, I ain't listened to the band in question yet (forgotten who it was already ). Carry on.

 

[matt99_crew]

That was like our Drudkh worship then, except Drudkh is at least interesting.

Well, I guess that depends who you ask
I haven't heard the album, but it did get a bit of notice:
47) Drudkh - Autumn Aurora 91/6
Edit: I'd love it if someone could fix that though.

As for the Arsis, I think it's a good album, but not a Best Of candidate.

It's interesting--I do think there is an element of group think on boards. Word and excitement spreads throughout a board and soon it seems almost elementary that a certain album is the best of the year. Go to another community and it's the same story with a different album.
Part of that is that with so many albums these days people can only hear so many. Even if you have the cash to check out a ton of albums, time is also a scarce commodity. So people take the word of people they "know." That's actually one of the best parts about these places. It's just cool to go somewhere different sometimes and get a whole other set of recommendations.

 

[Demonspell]

The Metalreview list is undoubtedly the most well rounded of those posted...as for Drudkh, the dark forest atmosphere is perfect enough that I have no doubt why it owned 2004 for most of the staff, even though I don't hold it in quite the same regard (read: merely excellent as opposed to instant classic).

 

[NAD]

Well, I guess that depends who you ask
I haven't heard the album, but it did get a bit of notice:
47) Drudkh - Autumn Aurora 91/6
Edit: I'd love it if someone could fix that though

Aye, PM your address and I'll shoot ya a CD-R, yours I know I don't have anymore because I lost all my emails in the Great Reformatted Harddrive of 2004.

I agree with lurch about the race v. religion thing, hating someone because of how they were born v. hating someone because of their actions and thoughts is a wholly seperate matter. And now I remember that Drudkh shirt in question, one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. But I could give a shit, the music rocks my socks.

 

[J.]

Sometimes the way someone thinks and how they were born go hand and hand, though. For example, the way they were raised, or the location in which they were raised will have a considerable impact on their thought processes as adults. I'm not saying this applies to Drudkh, but the two are not always mutually exclusive.

 

[SonOfNun]

I agree with lurch about the race v. religion thing, hating someone because of how they were born v. hating someone because of their actions and thoughts is a wholly seperate matter. And now I remember that Drudkh shirt in question, one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. But I could give a shit, the music rocks my socks.

I think what you gentlemen fail to understand is that a person is not better because of their race than they are because of their religion, whether they can choose that or not. Generalizing a group, is generalizing a group and it is completely irrelevant whether they chose to be a part of that group or not. There are good and bad christians, there are good and bad negros. If an artist wants to wipe out all christians, including the good ones, why is he any more worthy of your support than someone who wants to wipe out all of the asians?

I don't necessarily subscribe to the thought that all religious people are a part of that religion by choice, more by surroundings than anything. Most fat people are also not fat by choice. And when we speak of actions, we need to think of people who have fucked up personally, not a group. If we think of christians as sheep and want them gone, there is no difference than if someone were to say white people are boring and we want them gone. I simply think it's stupid to give people a free card because of their race and not allow bigotry, but to say that it's perfectly fine to persecute the religious without exception. Bigotry is bigotry, both racial and religious groups can be generalized into one stereotype and despised because of it and like I said earlier, one cannot claim that a person is any better or should be protected because of race. Maybe in this discussion we are generalizing too far ourselves and making things too black and white, no pun intended.

I think that you can hate people as a case by case thing, but to say "i won't listen to these guys because they don't like blacks." is pretty fucking dumb and vice versa. If you met two people, one was an atheist eskimo, the other a catholic indian, are you going have a bias towards one over the other? Especially if they grew up as atheist or catholic without any knowledge of other possibilities? I think it's time for people to calm down with the politically correct, anti-racism bullshit. Racism and hate are always going to exist, why get so worked up over it, especially to the point where we let it blur our judgement within music? I don't differentiate between hating one group over another because that seems logical to me, if you disagree, that's your own business.

*Steps off soap box, resume regular discussion*

 

[NAD]

I hate rapists, I would like them all dead.
I hate black people, all my pals must pay.

You don't see the distinction? I agree with your point of an individual v. a group though.

 

[MajestikMøøse]

Regarding the Drudkh issue... I went off on a couple page rant on the Nevermore board a little while back because one guy (who is pretty much an idiot in my eyes) was looking to find Dub Buk CDs to buy which he found out about by a careless mention by me a few months back, and downloaded some of their albums. As we all know Dub Buk is one of the most verbally extreme anti-semite NSBM bands out there and by simply knowing about them and their ideas spreads their cause, even unconciously.

I find NS bands a tricky issue, because simply by listening to them, not even buying their CDs but just listening to their music spreads the idea of their cause. He would not stop bothering me until I told him where to get the CD so I sent him to Panzerfaust Records for a nice NS visual and gave him a very clear warning that he is already supporting NS ideas by listening to their music and that to purchase their CD would be an even greater show of support to that idea.

Back to the issue at hand: Drudkh appears to be merely nature worship so its less of an issue, but comparatively something like Dub Buk with extreme overtly NS content like their lyric of "...and we'll strangle the last jew on the belly of the last priest" (or something to that effect) is something that you'd have to think very carefully about listening to for enjoyment, for that would to be a mild way of supporting their ideas. To listen to it and tell everyone you know about how great it is would be to directly spread their ideas, possibly to people susceptible to believing in them, which would be the goal of their music.

(note that I am slightly guilty of this aforementioned crime as I came upon this revelation AFTER discovering NS music and I have told a few people about Nokturnal Mortum and Dub Buk without realizing the potential consequences)


ehhh sorry if this seems to be just a giant incoherent ramble I've been up for a long time.

 

[SonOfNun]

I hate rapists, I would like them all dead.
I hate black people, all my pals must pay.

You don't see the distinction? I agree with your point of an individual v. a group though.

I'd just like to see racism put into perspective. It needs to be put on or near a level with other forms of intolerance instead of being the "OMG, HE SAID my pals! WTF ARE WE TO DO!" nonsense that it is now. I'm just tired of racism being such a sensitive issue, shut the fuck up already.

 

[NAD]

It needs to be put on or near a level with other forms of intolerance

Agreed, I'm just saying there is a difference. But I'm extremely full of Thai food right now and the blood isn't flowing enough to properly illustrate my point. Gub.

 

[Papa Josh]

Regarding the Drudkh issue... I went off on a couple page rant on the Nevermore board a little while back because one guy (who is pretty much an idiot in my eyes) was looking to find Dub Buk CDs to buy which he found out about by a careless mention by me a few months back, and downloaded some of their albums. As we all know Dub Buk is one of the most verbally extreme anti-semite NSBM bands out there and by simply knowing about them and their ideas spreads their cause, even unconciously.

I find NS bands a tricky issue, because simply by listening to them, not even buying their CDs but just listening to their music spreads the idea of their cause. He would not stop bothering me until I told him where to get the CD so I sent him to Panzerfaust Records for a nice NS visual and gave him a very clear warning that he is already supporting NS ideas by listening to their music and that to purchase their CD would be an even greater show of support to that idea.

Back to the issue at hand: Drudkh appears to be merely nature worship so its less of an issue, but comparatively something like Dub Buk with extreme overtly NS content like their lyric of "...and we'll strangle the last jew on the belly of the last priest" (or something to that effect) is something that you'd have to think very carefully about listening to for enjoyment, for that would to be a mild way of supporting their ideas. To listen to it and tell everyone you know about how great it is would be to directly spread their ideas, possibly to people susceptible to believing in them, which would be the goal of their music.

(note that I am slightly guilty of this aforementioned crime as I came upon this revelation AFTER discovering NS music and I have told a few people about Nokturnal Mortum and Dub Buk without realizing the potential consequences)


ehhh sorry if this seems to be just a giant incoherent ramble I've been up for a long time.

I can completely relate to this. I've had those feelings while listening to some stuff. It's probably a major factor as to why those albums don't get played often. As you get older, I just turned 30, and you have kids, daughters, in my case, there sometimes is a sense of pause.

I mean, as fucking BRUTAL and bad ass as a song like "Dechristianize" is from Vital Remains, or any Deicide track or even a Cannibal Corpse track, karmaically speaking, it can't be good... :Smokin:

 

[NAD]

I played Vital Remains for my ultra-christian / uber-guitargod friend once:

Me: "yeah, these dudes are pretty vile toward christianity and god and all"
Him: "who fucking cares, listen to those guitar solos!!!"

 

[J.]

on NS bands though, where do you (generally speaking) drawn the line. Rob Darken shares NS beliefs, but his bands (Graveland, Lord WInd) ARE NOT NS bands. They are Pagan bands with lyrics about viking warriors and pride in heritage and stuff like that.

The guys in Drudkh share NS beliefs, but Drudkh lyrics are probably (no one knows really) about nature, etc.

And again, by buying an NS CD, I seriously doubt that miniscule monetary amount goes directly to "killing my pals"