What do I need to upgrade/change to 'fix' or at least remedy this problem?

[Morgan C]

My DAW is SLOW!

Press 'play' and it takes a good second or three to actually start, always.
Depending on how many tracks I've got up, it'll drop out every now and then. The actual number of effects (eqs/compressors/reverbs) doesn't seem to make NEARLY as much of a difference as the number of tracks. I'm at the point where with just guitars (2 tracks) and drums (lots of tracks..probly about 12 or so) I literally cannot mix because it takes 5 seconds to start playing and then drops out 2 seconds later. No idea how I'm going to mix a full band.

Now my computer is decent, although rather overloaded with stuff. I usually go into Task Manager and shut off practically everything I'm not using though. Specs..
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3200+ (I think its overclocked to around 3.6 GHz)
1 GB RAM
A real crappy soundcard (Realtek AC97 Audio, probably what came with the computer. This is TERRIBLE. I've tried using my friend's Line6 Toneport UX2 and plugging that in - USB - and using it as a soundcard, massive improvement...gone from about 6 or 7 tracks to about 12 tracks max :/.
6600GT NVidia Vid Card (dont think this is really applicable..)
Windows XP
Using Sonar 6 Producer's Edition

Now its not the GREATEST of computers but surely it should do a better job than its doing :/
What do I need to upgrade to 'fix' this problem or at least remedy it to the point where I can get a full band in there and it doesnt drop out all the time?
I'm thinking its a soundcard. I can't imagine the UX2 is a great soundcard, especially connected by USB.. but I want to be sure. If so, can you guys recommend anything? (I'm very poor, no job and little money so I'm thinking around $200-300 max IF this will fully remedy the problem, not if its a $300 soundcard PLUS this PLUS that, etc. etc.)
Could also be the drivers, I've downloaded the latest Line6 drivers but I'm not sure that's all I need..

Also, I have another computer, which is definately better, not sure on the exact specs, but I think its 2GHz Duo, 2GB Ram, no idea on the soundcard and a POS inbuilt video card. Windows Vista. Would it be worth installing Sonar on that instead? I've heard Duo processors are better for audio..probably just a myth. Also heard that Vista is terrible (a thread here, haven't read the details) for audio! I've found Vista is good for what I've been doing so far, but that computer doesn't seem WAY faster than the one I'm using now.

As usual, this happens every time I post, I go off on tangents like crazy and no-one understands my question, so I'll summarise.
-My DAW is slow normally and slows down a LOT with each track added.
-I have a terrible soundcard, is this the problem, if not, what is?
-Is my Vista computer a better choice for mixing than this one?

 

[aortizjr]

Well I think first you need a real "soundcard" or interface.

Particularly something with ASIO drivers which are much more efficient. There are lots of options out there for cheap. I have an E-Mu 0202 which I like and I got it for $100. Also with nicer drivers you can adjust the latency. Lower latency means way higher CPU usage and drop-outs. Higher latency, especially for mixing, you won't even notice and drastically lowers your CPU usage.

Your computer hardware is more than fast enough to do a good recording. I got by until about 3 months ago with a computer similar to yours. 32+ tracks, automation, lots of VST's etc.

So based on that, it sounds like your machine needs a rebuild. Windows doesn't like having tons of crap on it. Even with it all off, that stuff clogs the registry, eats up memory forcing the use of virtual memory. Even if you uninstall I find that that the performance doesn't come back. But a clean re-build works.

Also you probably should consider a separate hard drive for audio. You might be having problems with windows trying to talk to the same HD. Which causes problems.

 

[JBroll]

He shouldn't have that much trouble running basic mixes on that.

Clean it out, turn off all the fancy useless shit, get a real interface (and if you don't have a good FW interface, or you're not sure and aren't too poor to spend the extra $10, get a Firewire card with a TI chip), and don't blow your money on a new computer. If the motherboard supports it, maybe get a dual-core chip and some RAM, but few things lose their value as quickly as computers.

Jeff

 

[Russtopher]

Definitely take the others' advice and invest in a decent firewire interface. I was mixing around 20 tracks with plugins on an old Athlon 1700 with 512M RAM using a Presonus Firebox Reaper worked WAY better for me on that PC than Cubase did. I did get dropouts every now and again depending on the number of plugins, but it wasn't unusable. Even now, I'm on a 2.Ghz P4 laptop with 1GB RAM and I haven't yet run into any issues pushing around 25-26 tracks. I run a basic XP install with very little else installed - no Office, no graphics programs, nuthin'.

I always recommend trying a program like End It All that will kill all your background processes and free up CPU. But I think in your case, even just getting an inexpensive firewire interface and using ASIO drivers will make a HUGE difference.

 

[Morgan C]

@aort
I think a re-install of the entire computer is pretty necessary, although its a pain to do (I'm living with my parents and this is the 'main' computer that everyone uses) and it'll end up having a lot reinstalled onto it anyway. I've heard Windows should be reinstalled every 4-5 months...its been on this computer at least 3-4 years. I might be better off using a laptop which no-one else uses, giving that a reinstall, as thats what I use for recording and all I really need on it is Sonar and Microsoft Word. Thats a Sony VAIO, but its not nearly as powerful as my other computers. Also only a USB1 I think.

Also I forgot to mention, Sonar is installed on the computer, but I'm saving all my audio files onto an external HD...I think connected by router not USB or something (the external HD serves as a link between all our computers). This might slow some stuff down? But I haven't noticed any difference between saving the audio files on the external HD or saving them on the computer's HD.

Firewire..you need a special thing to plug it into, don't you? AFAIK this computer only has USB 1, the Vista computer has USB2, but none have Firewire. If not, or if this is inexpensive then it could be an option. I have NO knowledge when it comes to the electronics of computers but luckily my Dad does..he assembled the computer we're using from scratch so I'm sure a new soundcard wouldn't be too hard. I have no idea if you can put a new soundcard in a laptop, or change anything about it, so using the VAIO might be out of the question then. That would be the best option if it was possible, although its not as fast or has as much RAM I'm the only one who uses it and it needs few programs.

 

[jess.oceans]

anybody know of a decent firewire interface for mac?
That is fairly low cost.
Just looking for something too take the load of my processor

 

[AudioPhile777]

...I'm living with my parents and this is the 'main' computer that everyone uses

Thats your problem there... get your own computer... one that can be designated for solely that which you wish to use it... or deal with it... only options i see...

 

[Wadi]

I remember getting a decent graphic card helps, too.

 

[JBroll]

Unless I'm missing something essential, if a graphics card really helps you need to disable the eye candy and other nonsense that takes resources just for the sake of taking resources.

Jeff

 

[Morgan C]

As I said, I have a laptop which only I use. Would reinstalling Windows and clearing off most of the crap work?
I'm on it right now, these are the specs, better than I thought.

Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T7200 (2Ghz)
128MB Vid Card (again, I dont think this matters)
2GB Ram (Strange..the SONY site says that this laptop only has 1GB, but the System Properties page says it has 2GB)
Probly the worst video card in the world, all it says is SigmaTel Audio. If I haven't got my UX2 plugged in then Sonar just crashes. Its THAT bad.
SONY site says it has USB2 ports and Firewire: i.LINK (IEEE 1394) S400 (4 pin).

I thought this computer was a lot worse than it is, so this is actually a pretty feasible option. I dont think you can insert a new soundcard into a laptop, so it would have to be external, right? Also, my UX2 can record and acts as a soundcard, but I dont think most soundcards would do this? Recording with this soundcard is a definate plus but not really a necessity at the moment..). Might be too expensive as I'd like an 8track to record drums with, so I might be better off going with a soundcard now and a big mixer later on. Im just programming my drums at the moment.


So with this in mind, say I used this computer with little other programs and a fresh install of Windows, what soundcard would you recommend? Aort recommended an E-mu 0202, which seems pretty cheap. You also said something with ASIO drivers. Can anyone else make any suggestions?

 

[AudioPhile777]

is it a VAIO?

if it is, I've heard nothing but horror stories about those... especially for anything audio related...

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Download asio4all, then come back and tell us what happens.

http://www.asio4all.com/

 

[Morgan C]

@AudioPhile
Yes its a VAIO. ><
Horror stories such as? A laptop is a laptop, isn't it? Can't imagine they can screw too much up just putting the parts together. Unless the parts they use are dodgy..?
I've been using it for recording and its worked fine, although with just 2 mics (using the UX2). Has a few clips and bumps, not sure whats causing it but it seems to be alright.
Did a search and a few people here have used them..only one person said they were incredibly slow (which I haven't found).

@UEAK
Downloaded it (2.8 and the latest beta..not sure which one to use I think I'll go for the stable one) and I'll try it in a sec.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Cool let me know, I'll wait to go to bed till you try it.

edit- ok nevermind I'm too fucking tired haha but basically if that doesn't work, try to mess around with the settings and stuff. I had the same issues with my stock audio drivers, but after getting asio4all and messing about with it for a while, it cleared right up.

If that fails, look into a USB or firewire interface.

 

[Morgan C]

Wow, righto

Well theres still that MASSIVE delay (5 secs or so) from the time I press play to the time it actually starts playing, but no more dropouts.

Wait, make that 'few' drop outs.

Ugh actually its fine while playing but pretty much as soon as I start changing anything it drops out. ><


A big help yes, but still a farcry from what I need. I think getting an external soundcard and using the VAIO would be the best option, also because I have total access to that computer. Unless, AudioPhile, you put me off completely with your horror stories. ;p

 

[Russtopher]

I would think the specs on that laptop would be more than sufficient for you to have decent success with using it as a DAW. An external FW or USB2 interface that will let you use ASIO drivers and select your latency should go a long way.

Don't know if it was mentioned anywhere else in the thread (still starting my morning coffee) but make sure any and all LAN connections are disabled - if the laptop has built in wireless (I'm assuming it does) make sure it's turned off/disabled. Search around for tips to optimize XP for audio as well (things like changing the graphics settings, setting processes to run in the background, etc) to help free up some CPU.

 

[Morgan C]

@Russtopher
About to go to bed Love these time zones. Got any recommendations? Or does it not really matter, any external interface would do?
Why would LAN affect the laptop/audio? I access my External HD from a Router..that counts as LAN doesn't it? But then I can't access or store my audio files there? A bit confused.
I'll do a bit of research about optimizing XP thanks, but I might be upgrading that laptop to Vista (doesn't seem to be a terrible choice, I did a quick google on it. Hopefully I haven't missed something important).

 

[SpewChunks]

As already stated your PC specs are fine, your setup should easily be able to record more tracks. I don't think the soundcard is the problem at all (even if it is a Realtek AC97) and ASIO4ALL will certainly help. 5 seconds of delay makes me think it's most definitly a storage read/write problem.

@Russtopher
I access my External HD from a Router..that counts as LAN doesn't it? But then I can't access or store my audio files there? A bit confused.

Are you trying to say you are trying to record onto a HDD connected to your router! no no no, if this is the case you are most definitly going to get a slow down or delay. Never record audio through any sort of network, this is very bad. An internal hard drive is the most preferable recording medium, but an external drive is fine as long as it is connected directly to the computer and via Firewire in preference to USB.

BAD:
A LAN connected by a standard 100 MBit ethernet has a theoretical limit of 12.5 megabytes per/second transfer speed. But you'll more likely average around 2-6 MB p/sec. Add onto that, any network communications add extra overhead data to be transferred to make sure there are no errors in the data.

USB 1.1 = 12Mbit, it sucks, don't even think about it.

OK:
Even though USB 2.0 is rated at 480 MBits p/sec it is actually not better than firewire due to it reaching this speed in BURSTS of data throughput. Firewire is better for large data transfer (i.e. audio recording) because it has a high SUSTAINED data throughput speed. But USB 2.0 is still OK for recording.

GOOD:
A standard 400 Mbit firewire connection has a theoretical limit of 50 megabytes per second transfer speed. But you won't get that, you'll more likely average 40 MBp/sec read/writes and below at BEST.

An internal 7200 rpm HDD will give you anywhere between 35-80 MBp/sec read/writes average, all depending on the size of the HDD, and the type quality of the drive ie. UltraATA100, SATA, HDD cache size.


Edit:
If i'm wrong and you are using an internal drive or firewire already, i suggest you download and open this HDD speed test http://www.nu2.nu/download.php?sFile=bst514.zip , when open click on options and check the quick speed test, and if you don't average at least 20 MB+ p/sec then you've probably got a HDD problem.

 

[viggen666]

install windows xp a second time on a differrent harddisk/partition, so you have dualboot. Use one that fresh install for recording, other one for games and other things.
then turn off all the fancy shit and other things you don't need (google optimize windows xp for audio for tips)

 

[Morgan C]

Uhh..
Avg/s = 9.9MB
Not good..

My laptop only has I think 60GB or 120GB of space, which is probably mostly used up. :/
I guess I could get around it somehow.

Strange that I didn't really notice a difference going from mixing from the internal harddrive to mixing on the external HD (not on the laptop, on the PC). I'll try installing ASIO4ALL on the laptop this afternoon and run some files off the laptop instead of the external HD..let you know how that turns out.

@Viggen
My PC has a second boot which is clean, but it only has USB1 (for an external soundcard), and its specs aren't as good as the laptop.



Still, I know all this will help but I think a new soundcard is necessary but I'm lost as to where to start looking for one. Suggestions?