What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[Diabolik]

So, just like Jason was claiming above; Agalloch is all about quality music with substance, whereas other bands are not.

That's a cool way to win an argument: "my opinion matters more than yours, because I'm an avid fan".

No, I am actually a casual fan of Agalloch. It seems to me that Blackguard are more of a tool of the machine instead of a band that has integrity and substance who are carefully planning thier career. For example....Agalloch are very careful when they do shows. They are a good example of a band who is not pimping themselves out every second. This is why they are being used as an example.

 

[General Zod]

Who are you to tell Blackguard that their music isn't quality compared to a band like Agalloch?

Hi... I'm Greg, and I'll tell them.

Claus... ultimately you're 100% correct. You can't state that Agalloch is artistically superior to Blackguard. Yet, at the same time, I get where Jason is coming from. When you listen to a band like Agalloch, it just seems so clear that what they're striving for is something artistically grand and majestic. I understand that nothing about music appreciation is quantitative. However, when you keep company with like-minded people, this analysis begins to take upon itself an element of truth. And if not truth, than certainly truthiness.

By the way, I've very much enjoyed the back and forth between you guys. Very passionate. Cheers.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Claus... ultimately you're 100% correct. You can't state that Agalloch is artistically superior to Blackguard. Yet, at the same time, I get where Jason is coming from.

Of course. I too know where Jason is coming from and it's admirable that he is a fan of band A and sticks up for them. However, he comes across as hating on band B just because he is a fan of band A. (btw, how cool is it that band A and band B actually ARE band A and B?), and that's why I've been chappin' his arse (according to a quick google search something came up with stale sweet tea ... ;0). It's all about dealing with facts as if they were an opinion vs opinion as if they were facts.

 

[Corsair]

I am with you on this.
Though at the same time, people who say they don't give a shit, truly are the ones who get all up in arms when Diabolik makes comments like that.

Well, I won't deny that I can care about other people's reactions to things, but I was trying to go for a more "I don't care that you think they're poseurs and I will continue listening to them regardless of your position. However, I feel that what you are saying is bullhonkey."

 

[Diabolik]

Of course. I too know where Jason is coming from and it's admirable that he is a fan of band A and sticks up for them. However, he comes across as hating on band B just because he is a fan of band A. (btw, how cool is it that band A and band B actually ARE band A and B?), and that's why I've been chappin' his arse (according to a quick google search something came up with stale sweet tea ... ;0). It's all about dealing with facts as if they were an opinion vs opinion as if they were facts.

I think the hate is what started this discussion in the first place. See how the oversaturation of Blackguard effects thier status? If Jason is a hater....he is a % of the metal population who feels this way. So this proves my point that touring too much can hurt a band. It is like advertising.....just because it is getting pushed in your face, it does not mean it is good. There are people who fall for advertising...there are smart people who do not. They research and try other products till they find something better that fits them. The general public will blindly follow advertising like sheep until something else is pushed and they forget what they were just into and follow that.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

So this proves my point that touring too much can hurt a band.

So can bad reviews.
So can bad production.
So can bad cover artwork.
So can bad songwriting.
So can fans who over-posts / over-hypes about certain bands on certain message boards.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, right?

However, what you're saying is an opinion. Nothing has been proven by it - stating that touring too much can hurt a band is an opinion, not a fact. Stating that touring a lot can increase your chances of success is a fact, not an opinion.

c.

 

[Pate]

That's a cool way to win an argument: "my opinion matters more than yours, because I'm an avid fan".

As opposed to your argument: "My opinion matters more than yours, because I'm in the industry."

 

[Claus / Intromental]

As opposed to your argument: "My opinion matters more than yours, because I'm in the industry."

When I've said that, it was all in jest. Go back and check for yourself.

However, the argument that is important to focus on here is: "fact matters more than opinion".

 

[Diabolik]

As opposed to your argument: "My opinion matters more than yours, because I'm in the industry."

hahahahhahaha and Lee slam dunks it.

Lee makes a good point. Claus, with all your knowledge about the music scene....where is your success? You seem to know the way to making it big and making money. Have the bands you managed hit that status yet? Why are you not pushing all your bands to tour non stop then?

 

[Claus / Intromental]

hahahahhahaha and Lee slam dunks it.
Lee makes a good point.

Not really ...

Claus, with all your knowledge about the music scene....where is your success? You seem to know the way to making it big and making money. Have the bands you managed hit that status yet?

I haven't quite made it, but that's only because I don't have you guys on my side yet. Once I have you promoting the shit out of me, then I'll be big.

Why are you not pushing all your bands to tour non stop then?

I am ... right now I have three of my bands on big tours;
Seven Kingdoms is touring North America with Blind Guardian
Leprous and Loch Vostok are touring Europe with Therion

 

[Diabolik]

but are they going to be touring non stop? Are Seven Kingdoms going to be a band that opens for a great large band and then do nothing? or are you going to push them on another tour?

 

[Claus / Intromental]

but are they going to be touring non stop? Are Seven Kingdoms going to be a band that opens for a great large band and then do nothing? or are you going to push them on another tour?

We're already working on the next tours

 

[Jasonic]

However, he comes across as hating on band B just because he is a fan of band A. (btw, how cool is it that band A and band B actually ARE band A and B?),

once again, you are putting words in my mouth, and chappin my arse!

I never said I hated Blackguard......ever.
I honestly (for like the zillionth time now) have never heard them.

There are plenty of bands that I do like who have burnt out from overexposure and not following up with solid material. I even mentioned one, in Beyond the Embrace. I thought they were great, and on par to be the In Flames of the US.

Speaking of In Flames, there's another example (Along with COB) of how touring too much can impact the quality of your subsequent material.

 

[Diabolik]

We're already working on the next tours

nice to hear. I see so many missed opportunities with bands who take a chance on touring and then don't use that to further the band and do more.

 

[Jasonic]

We're already working on the next tours

Cool, well, I look forward to seeing Seven Kingdoms next Monday in Chicago. I will certainly provide open and honest feedback.


Look - not EVERY band can tour, even if they want to. Some bands have no desire to tour. That doesn't mean that they are any less successful or have the ability to produce less quality material.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

nice to hear. I see so many missed opportunities with bands who take a chance on touring and then don't use that to further the band and do more.

It comes back to first week sales ...
(sorry, couldn't help - bad joke)

Actually, it all has to do with money. Most bands don't have a label behind them that will throw in $20.000 for each tour the band gets offered.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Look - not EVERY band can tour, even if they want to. Some bands have no desire to tour. That doesn't mean that they are any less successful or have the ability to produce less quality material.

That's a good point - that there are certainly bands who don't want to tour, but who still puts out "quality material" (whatever that means).

But, it does lessen their chances of becoming successful. As an example from this prog/power genre, let's look at Shadow Gallery; how much bigger do you think they would have been had they been touring over the years? I'm pretty certain that they would have been way more successful.

For me, as a manager, I am careful about which bands I work with, and if a band already before we start out tells me: "we won't be touring", then I'm more reluctant to sign them on, because I'm well aware that means less chances of breaking them.

c.

 

[cslebn]

I honestly (for like the zillionth time now) have never heard them.

all the time spent in this thread and you couldn't even drop by their myspace page for a listen while typing?

 

[Jasonic]

But, it does lessen their chances of becoming successful. As an example from this prog/power genre, let's look at Shadow Gallery; how much bigger do you think they would have been had they been touring over the years? I'm pretty certain that they would have been way more successful.

For me, as a manager, I am careful about which bands I work with, and if a band already before we start out tells me: "we won't be touring", then I'm more reluctant to sign them on, because I'm well aware that means less chances of breaking them.

c.

Agreed 100%
Not touring will certainly hurt your chances of getting signed by a larger label. Some bands though may simply get satisfaction from creating music, almost more of a hobby than a career.

 

[Jasonic]

all the time spent in this thread and you couldn't even drop by their myspace page for a listen while typing?

You know what......

i was actually going to say, with all the people defending the career moves of Blackguard, no one has bothered to post a link or a You Tube to showcase their talent. Kind of says something, dontcha think????