What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[Jasonic]

You really think that In Flames and NW NET (IE - NOT Gross) numbers in the millions?

I am not refuting this claim, serious question.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

You really think that In Flames and NW NET (IE - NOT Gross) numbers in the millions?

I am not refuting this claim, serious question.

Absolutely!
c.

 

[cslebn]

You know what......

i was actually going to say, with all the people defending the career moves of Blackguard, no one has bothered to post a link or a You Tube to showcase their talent. Kind of says something, dontcha think????

The band still deserves a shot, but I believe every band does until otherwise proven wrong (by listening to the band). My friends stood in line for an autograph session while these guys were on the stage at PP and I still went in to give them a try. Not my normal cup of tea but they had energy and I'll respect them for what they do.

Look at the number of positive responses on Youtube. Not a full survey audience but a positive reflection from a different audience then is reflected here (by some).



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhascKJjsDk&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A920Ia5PdF8&feature=related[/ame]


Interesting tibit from their wiki from before they changed the name of the band:
Profugus Mortis' first professional recording was released in March 2007 and was named So it Begins. So it Begins was more a collection of songs showcasing the band's past and their new direction, the album became the best and fastest selling album in their label Prodisk's history.

 

[1000 Faces]

Interesting tibit from their wiki from before they changed the name of the band:
Profugus Mortis' first professional recording was released in March 2007 and was named So it Begins. So it Begins was more a collection of songs showcasing the band's past and their new direction, the album became the best and fastest selling album in their label Prodisk's history.

Kinda hard to quantify "best," I reckon. Sounds like it was written by their publicist/manager.

 

[Jasonic]

I did give each three tracks a one minute listen.

Those are seriously the most generic vocals I have ever heard. Sorry.
Just not my cup of tea. The music has some interesting parts.

I am definitely not the target market for this band.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

You really think that In Flames and NW NET (IE - NOT Gross) numbers in the millions?

I am not refuting this claim, serious question.

No. They don't NET millions. I said GROSS. There are obvious expenses like managers, booking agents, merch guys, lighting guys, sound guys, crew to set up production that adds up obviously. Each member probably nets a few hundred grand per year. I believe I saw an article about the keyboardist of Nightwish netting like 250 grand on Nightwish. He's the songwriter for the band, so he probably makes more than the rest of the band because all the songwriting royalties/publishing etc go to him. BUT, yeah, these bands gross in the millions at the end of the year.

 

[MartinW]

About In Flames being one of the biggest bands in Sweden....
Where do you base this from?
Are they really still that popular there?

They are more or less completely mainstream. So is Hammerfall, for the record. Not that being big in Sweden automatically makes you rich or anything, but yeah.

 

[skyrefuge]

You and Claus feel everything is black and white, based on your beliefs.

Incorrect. I generally make very few claims about anything, because I only like to do so when the answer *is* black-or-white (I have a strong aversion against coming off like a dumbass who doesn't know what he's talking about). And in discussions like this, it very rarely is black-or-white. Instead, most of my time is spent questioning the black-and-white claims of others, saying "here's some contradictory data...doesn't that make this area seem a little more gray than you thought?"

Go ahead and pull a handful of examples to back a couple of your favorite bands whose careers may be outliers. There will ALWAYS be outliers.

Huh? When have I done that? I have a pretty good understanding of sampling bias, statistics, cause-and-effect, and the scientific method, so I never cherry-pick examples to prove a claim. I very may well use a single example to *disprove* a claim, maybe that's what you're thinking of? I'm happy to see that you at least know the concept of outliers, even though you don't quite seem to recognize the possibility that your own opinion may often be an outlier rather than in the heart of the bell curve.

You are failing to see a potential correlation between overexposure and the image that goes along with being THAT band.

Huh? I don't know what correlation you're talking about here, but the very first thing I said in my last post was that I agree that overexposure has the potential to turn some fans off.

I was just trying to point out that for many bands, overexposure has been the nail in their coffin.

Ok, I know you'll say this is your opinion, not a "fact", so you don't need any facts to support it, but since there are many of these bands, could you just list the five most obvious who were killed by overexposure, and how you know that it wasn't something else that brought the final end to the band?

Neil

 

[skyrefuge]

Seriously????????????
The diminished quality of In Flames and COB as a result of spending more time on the road than the studio is JUST "my" personal opinion???

Neil - You are the one who is a hard on for stats.

Go find us the CD sales figures for both those bands.

Ok, several others have already covered this pretty well, but I can't resist piling on. Really it's because I hope it will make you realize how your own opinion or the opinion that you've collected from your circle of friends can be a bad representation of reality outside that circle.

'Come Clarity' sold over 100k in the US, and is also the most popular album at last.fm. Last week they were the 171st most-popular band, ahead of Alicia Keys, Alice in Chains, Elton John, and Megadeth. The top 15 most popular songs include two from 'Clayman', and none from anything before that. So it's pretty clear that a lot more people like the new stuff than the old stuff.

Neil

 

[Diabolik]

Ok, several others have already covered this pretty well, but I can't resist piling on. Really it's because I hope it will make you realize how your own opinion or the opinion that you've collected from your circle of friends can be a bad representation of reality outside that circle.

'Come Clarity' sold over 100k in the US, and is also the most popular album at last.fm. Last week they were the 171st most-popular band, ahead of Alicia Keys, Alice in Chains, Elton John, and Megadeth. The top 15 most popular songs include two from 'Clayman', and none from anything before that. So it's pretty clear that a lot more people like the new stuff than the old stuff.

Neil

OR people who like that stuff is listening to last.fm and the people who like the older stuff are not. You cant base any arguement off that data. If everyone in the world got thier music there....sure. They dont so it means nothing. This is why neilson ratings are lame for TV

 

[Jasonic]

Ok, I know you'll say this is your opinion, not a "fact", so you don't need any facts to support it, but since there are many of these bands, could you just list the five most obvious who were killed by overexposure, and how you know that it wasn't something else that brought the final end to the band?

Once again, overexposure ALONE would never be the "be all end all" for a band. It would be a contributing factor. It could lead to a band spending more time on the road, and less time songwriting.

I could easily list 5 bands that fall in the catagory.

Here is the difference though in how you and I would see the situation.

1) I am more concerned with a band's quality of music.
2) You seem more concerned in measuring success by CD sales

Let's talk IN FLAMES.
Thanks for looking it up. So COME CLARITY sold over 100K in the states. I will assume that is more than COLONY, CLAYMAN, WHORACLE, etc has done.

I did have CC in my collection for a VERY short time, after getting it used. It is seriously a MAJOR piece of crap, and I am being generous.

If you seriously think that the quality of music on that album even remotely resembles the quality of their previous releases, then we should seriously end this discussion now.

So, IN FLAMES does a 360 in sound. Some will say they "grew up", "matured", "wanted to get a different fanbase" who knows??? All I am saying is that as a long time fan, my perception is they got VERY lazy with their song writing. They used to write music with an original mix of death metal, melodic metal, and even classical guitar passages. They changed all that for chug-a-chug-a-chug.

So, for me as a fan, I believe a contributing factor is less time spent on writing the album as they spent more time on the road. I think there wasn't even 1 1/2 between Reroute to Remain and Soundtrack to your Escape.

So, in the end, good for IN FLAMES. They did what they needed to do to become a full time band. I could not give a rat's ass because I believe musically they are a complete abomination.

 

[skyrefuge]

If everyone in the world got thier music there....sure. They dont so it means nothing.

Of course it has its shortcomings as a data source, but it means a hell of a lot more than "nothing". Its data correlates well with Soundscan and also with what everyone else here has been saying about In Flames except for you and Jason. So I think it's pretty representative in this case.

Or, are you really claiming that if you did a survey of everyone in the world, you would find that there are more people who listen to 'The Jester Race' than 'Come Clarity'?

Please share what data source you're using that is more representative of the world than the last.fm data, and what makes it more representative.

Neil

 

[Diabolik]

Of course it has its shortcomings as a data source, but it means a hell of a lot more than "nothing". Its data correlates well with Soundscan and also with what everyone else here has been saying about In Flames except for you and Jason. So I think it's pretty representative in this case.

Or, are you really claiming that if you did a survey of everyone in the world, you would find that there are more people who listen to 'The Jester Race' than 'Come Clarity'?

Please share what data source you're using that is more representative of the world than the last.fm data, and what makes it more representative.

Neil

I never said more people are listening to "Jester Race" more than "Come Clarity". You posted that In Flames has more listeners than major musical acts making it sound like In Flames are larger than they actually are.

 

[skyrefuge]

Once again, overexposure ALONE would never be the "be all end all" for a band. It would be a contributing factor. It could lead to a band spending more time on the road, and less time songwriting.

You said "for many bands, overexposure has been the nail in their coffin." That means, for many bands, overexposure was the final element that brought the band to an end. No "coulds" or "woulds", but "did". So I asked you to list some of those bands.

I could easily list 5 bands that fall in the catagory.

But you won't because.....?

Here is the difference though in how you and I would see the situation.

1) I am more concerned with a band's quality of music.
2) You seem more concerned in measuring success by CD sales

Not at all, this discussion at the moment doesn't have a darn thing to do with that. I'm concerned with people saying things that make sense. And naming 5 bands they can easily name rather than trying to avoid the topic.

If you seriously think that the quality of music on that album even remotely resembles the quality of their previous releases, then we should seriously end this discussion now.

#1) I had the sense to stop listening to In Flames long before 'Come Clarity'.
#2) That's completely irrelevant to the discussion. For the thousandth time, our personal opinions of bands/albums are utterly meaningless. When will you grasp that?

All I am saying is that as a long time fan, my perception is they got VERY lazy with their song writing.

And then you assumed that everyone else felt the same way. But you were wrong.

Neil

 

[AeonicSlumber]

OR people who like that stuff is listening to last.fm and the people who like the older stuff are not. You cant base any arguement off that data. If everyone in the world got thier music there....sure. They dont so it means nothing. This is why neilson ratings are lame for TV

That's like assuming all scientific polls are taken via every person in the world. Data via polling is never truly accurate, but it gives us more to work with than say, you-- who provides us with nothing whatsoever.

 

[nightwish58]

To answer the original thread: make really really horrible musicuke:

 

[Diabolik]

I'm not familiar with that term, but it doesn't sound pleasant. Good luck with that - you might want to see a doctor.




Success can be measured in different ways; sales and $$$ is one way.




Fair enough. Your many posts about how fantastic they are and how everyone loves them and how much they keep selling without touring makes them seem to be the biggest band I've never heard about ...

here is a good place to start if you havent heard Agalloch.....

 

[Diabolik]

Please share what data source you're using that is more representative of the world than the last.fm data, and what makes it more representative.

Neil

You ought to say "Hello" at a show instead of hiding from us and we can have many discussions in person.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

IMO Pale Folklore is a far better entry point for Agalloch. This song is 10 minutes long but it's infectious as shiiiit.

 

[Prog_Please]

You guys are all wrong. If you want Agalloch at its best, you have to go with this one