What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)
- Thread starter Palabra de Dios
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skyrefuge
Member
haha, no. We've been through this just a couple days ago. Have you forgotten already? The only way advertising can "hurt" a band's fanbase is if it turns off more people than it turns on. I think a lot of Bud Light ads are dumb, and I never drink Bud Light. In your world, this piece of information would make you leap to the absurd conclusion that Bud Light's ad campaigns diminish the number of Bud Light drinkers. Jason never would have become a Blackguard even if they never played a single concert in their lives. So as long as they have made added a single fan out of the thousands of people who have seen them play, 1 fan gained is greater than 0 fans lost, meaning that they come out ahead.
I'm really curious to know what information you're drawing upon to form this cause-and-effect relationship! (oh, ok, I actually have a pretty good idea...)
Neil
Claus / Intromental
20 years of uniting the powers of metal
I thought by now you would know that quality is based upon personal opinion? At least that's what I've learned from this thread
Jasonic
Doom On!
Seriously????????????
The diminished quality of In Flames and COB as a result of spending more time on the road than the studio is JUST "my" personal opinion???
Neil - You are the one who is a hard on for stats.
Go find us the CD sales figures for both those bands.
The diminished quality of In Flames and COB as a result of spending more time on the road than the studio is JUST "my" personal opinion???
Neil - You are the one who is a hard on for stats.
Go find us the CD sales figures for both those bands.
jem777az
Bozzman
I totally disagree with this. The reason their style changed was not because of touring but because they grew up. It happens with a lot of bands. Their heads are in a different place. They're kids when they first start out and have a completely different frame of reference towards life in general. As they get older they may get married and have families and just have an overall different perspective of the world. This is what's reflected in the bands later material.
In fact they've become immensely more popular as a direct result of touring, even though most In Flames fans would argue that their older stuff is way better.
skyrefuge
Member
I thought by now you would know that quality is based upon personal opinion? At least that's what I've learned from this thread
I'm not even talking about the quality judgment! Even if the 14th Intergovernmental Panel on Music Quality decrees that In Flames and COB albums did in fact suffer a decrease in quality after increased touring (and the World Tour Monitoring Council first has to show us that their touring actually increased!), my question still stands: how is the touring determined to be the *cause* of that quality decrease, rather than some other factor?
Neil
Jasonic
Doom On!
I think the point here Neil is that some bands WILL turn off potential fans by obtaining the stigma of being "that band". So, sure, overexposure will gain you some fans, but with that comes the stigma. Just have to be careful.
I don't think it's a true assumption to make that I would NEVER become a fan of Blackguard. I become interested in bands based more on what I hear they are doing musically, than just by getting into the bands I see live.
If people raved about Blackguard's music (which they don't), I would be more inclined to check them out. So yes, to me personally (and I said "ME" personally, not an overall fact or definitive solution), they are just one of the many bands who will tour relentlessly and most likely fade away after their second album.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Once again, I never said it was the only factor.
In Flames and COB both became more influenced by the bands they first influenced themselves, and became clones of much inferior bands.
Also, the more time bands spend on the road can (not always, but many times) result in less time spent writing and recording the next album.
Therefore, this MIGHT add to the deterioration of quality.
Go ahead and say that I don't have factual information to support this.
The bottom line is that as a consumer of metal CDs and tickets for metal shows, my opinion does indeed matter if it means the loss of a sale.
dcowboys311
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
So you are saying that a band does not care about retention?
If that is the case, then why the hell do most long running bands play the same and tired setlist night after night??? They want to please the old fans who they know aren't going to be first in line to purchase a new album.
Sure, maybe In Flames and COB are doing ok by flip flopping their fanbase, but we'll see how viable they are as bands in 10 years.
dcowboys311
Member
It varies from band to band.
I don't know the guys in Children of Bodom or In Flames, so I can't speak on their motives for changing their music. Hypothetically speaking, though, I'm sure they'd much rather have a higher flow of new fans than retention rate. The old fans have already purchased the old albums. They're only good for purchasing 1 album every few years now. A new fan will purchase all the bands old albums. 5 album sales > 1 album sale. (again, this is hypothetical and not directed at any one band).
Also, you don't know the motives behind most bands playing the same setlists each night. Again, it probably varies from band to band. Perhaps the stage production doesn't suit change well? Maybe the bands don't actually know how to play their own songs anymore? Maybe the play the same sets (consisting of the bigger tunes) because that's what the new fans, who haven't previously seen said bands before, want to hear? A million different reasons.
In Flames is one of the biggest bands in Sweden. I'm sure they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
I don't know the guys in Children of Bodom or In Flames, so I can't speak on their motives for changing their music. Hypothetically speaking, though, I'm sure they'd much rather have a higher flow of new fans than retention rate. The old fans have already purchased the old albums. They're only good for purchasing 1 album every few years now. A new fan will purchase all the bands old albums. 5 album sales > 1 album sale. (again, this is hypothetical and not directed at any one band).
Also, you don't know the motives behind most bands playing the same setlists each night. Again, it probably varies from band to band. Perhaps the stage production doesn't suit change well? Maybe the bands don't actually know how to play their own songs anymore? Maybe the play the same sets (consisting of the bigger tunes) because that's what the new fans, who haven't previously seen said bands before, want to hear? A million different reasons.
In Flames is one of the biggest bands in Sweden. I'm sure they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Well, ok, I see this aspect, speaking solely for CD sales.
Really though, are CD sales even much of a factor these days for bands who make a living off of just the band? I think this would come mostly from touring and even more so from merchandise sales.
About In Flames being one of the biggest bands in Sweden....
Where do you base this from?
Are they really still that popular there?
AeonicSlumber
srs
- Aug 14, 2008
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dcowboys311
Member
CD sales themselves aren't going to make the bands rich, but as mentioned many times in this thread, are one of the primary indicators of where a band will tour. And as has been discussed many times on this board, touring (and the associated merch sales) is where a band makes money.
In Flames recently won the Swedish equivalent of a Grammy and co-headlined some arena dates at the end of last year. Yeah, they're not at Metallica level, but who is?
Jasonic
Doom On!
skyrefuge
Member
I actually quite agree with that statement. Our disagreement is that you think it's quite easy for those turned-off fans to outnumber the turned-on ones, while I think it's nearly impossible.
No, since you've made dozens of posts about Blackguard in this thread but never took 30 seconds to listen to them, I think it's a completely valid assumption that you have never been on their list of "potential fans". Them being on fewer tours would not have increased the chances of you checking them out. Yes, in the future, if you hear good things from someone you trust about their music, then you might certainly check them out. But I was talking only about your potential-fandom given their currently-released music; if you haven't been inspired to listen to them yet, their amount of touring won't do anything to change that.
Yeah, so that's a totally different statement than "there's another example of how touring too much can impact the quality of your subsequent material." Which is good, at least you recognize what a baseless thing that was to say.
Ok! You don't have factual information to support this. It would make me feel better to hear you actually say it too though, rather than just backing into the admission!
What would make me feel even better is if you learn to stop making such baseless claims in the first place; it would save me a lot of work in going back and pointing out their baselessness!
Yes, your opinion on a band's quality does matter to them if it affects your buying decision. But your random pulled-from-thin-air explanation for *why* you think their quality has decreased doesn't matter to them.
Neil
AeonicSlumber
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Haha In Flames BOUGHT studio Fredman from Nordstrom and he ended up re opening another studio. They make gangbusters money whether you like to believe it or not. IF and Nightwish are two bands that gross MILLIONS per year.
Claus / Intromental
20 years of uniting the powers of metal
Jasonic
Doom On!
Ok, here is my problem with YOUR arguments, and calling my opinions (which I never said were facts) baseless.
You and Claus feel everything is black and white, based on your beliefs.
Go ahead and pull a handful of examples to back a couple of your favorite bands whose careers may be outliers. There will ALWAYS be outliers.
You are failing to see a potential correlation between overexposure and the image that goes along with being THAT band.
Once again, everything to you has been black and white.
I was just trying to point out that for many bands, overexposure has been the nail in their coffin.
Claus / Intromental
20 years of uniting the powers of metal
Just the amount of merchandise that In Flames sell each year is enough to feed all members of the band. It's crazy how much money they make.
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