What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[Claus / Intromental]

Agalloch: I listened to the three video tunes posted, and I can appreciate what they are doing. Seem to me that they somehow evolved along the same tangent as European bands such as Dornenreich, Tenhi and especially Empyrium (in other words, the entire Prophecy Productions first batch). I used to be very much into that music style back in the day (I even went on European tour with some of those Prophecy bands as tour manager), whereas I now rarely listen to much of that stuff. But yeah, I can appreciate what they are doing, but also can easily see why this is a band that will not be a big selling act, as their music isn't very "commercial".

 

[Diabolik]

Good call on the Empyrium vibe. Do you like The Vision Bleak? Pretty good stuff but not something I listen to everyday.

 

[Jasonic]

but also can easily see why this is a band that will not be a big selling act, as their music isn't very "commercial".

Absolutely. This is why I keep saying that different bands have different goals, and different measures of success for obtaining those goals. I know I was one of the few who brought up Agalloch in the first place. I think we can all easily agree that a band with Blackguard's sound will definitely gain more fans from getting on the ton of modern metal package tours they are on, as opposed to Agalloch who will gain attention from the music alone.

I know many took that to mean that I was indicating that by default it meant Agalloch's music was superior to Blackguard (or any other constant touring band). It simply meant that their recorded output is more of a driver for promotion than getting out and playing live.

As Claus said though, their sound isn't geared towards mass commercial appeal, though I think they would certainly do great on tours like Katatonia, Amorphis, etc, etc.

 

[Jasonic]

Good call on the Empyrium vibe. Do you like The Vision Bleak? Pretty good stuff but not something I listen to everyday.

Wow, isn't this early in the morning for you?

 

[dcowboys311]

Currently, this is the 5th biggest topic in the history of the board.

Next post will get it tied for 3rd.

 

[Diabolik]

Wow, isn't this early in the morning for you?

yes....very very early for me.

 

[AngraRULES]

As Claus said though, their sound isn't geared towards mass commercial appeal, though I think they would certainly do great on tours like Katatonia, Amorphis, etc, etc.

This.

 

[skyrefuge]

I never said more people are listening to "Jester Race" more than "Come Clarity". You posted that In Flames has more listeners than major musical acts making it sound like In Flames are larger than they actually are.

Argh, then please learn how to use the quote function! If there's a specific point I make that you disagree with, you can highlight that point only. When you quote my entire post, it's not only a waste of board space, it makes me have to guess what part you're referring to.

Anyhow, yes, due to demographic differences in the last.fm population vs. the world population, I consider the data comparing between genres to be the least reliable; it's less reliable than comparing bands within the same genre, which is less reliable than comparing songs/albums from the same band.

Still, that band ranking data is worldwide, and maybe In Flames really does get more listens on a worldwide basis than Alicia Keys. I certainly wouldn't bet a lot of money on it, but just because it tells you something different than the mainstream US music industry will have you believe doesn't instantly mean it's untrue.

Recall that last.fm ranks bands based on how much people actually *listen* to music, not if they buy it and then put it on a shelf like sales figures rank bands. So if it upsets some long-held beliefs, that's not a surprise, since before last.fm, there was never a system that revealed that sort of listening-based information.

Neil

 

[Jasonic]

Recall that last.fm ranks bands based on how much people actually *listen* to music, not if they buy it and then put it on a shelf like sales figures rank bands. So if it upsets some long-held beliefs, that's not a surprise, since before last.fm, there was never a system that revealed that sort of listening-based information.

Neil,
I am not sure if I asked you in THIS thread or another, but I asked about how LAST.FM works, as I truly don't know.
So it sounds like it's a place where music is posted?
Who posts the music there for people to listen to?
Are they official postings of the songs from the bands / labels, or is it the fans?

You confirmed though that it tracks listening only, and no bearing on CD purchases.

Yeah, it certainly is interesting, as there then could be a correlation to listening and ticket sales, I suppose.

I am sure there are MANY people who go to shows of bands they like these days who truly never purchased or legally downloaded an album of said band.

I suppose with sites such as LAST.FM, even though the bands make no $$$ from the music, the free exposure would lead to other revenue sources (And then potentially a CD purchase down the road).

 

[Diabolik]

Argh, then please learn how to use the quote function! If there's a specific point I make that you disagree with, you can highlight that point only. When you quote my entire post, it's not only a waste of board space, it makes me have to guess what part you're referring to.

Anyhow, yes, due to demographic differences in the last.fm population vs. the world population, I consider the data comparing between genres to be the least reliable; it's less reliable than comparing bands within the same genre, which is less reliable than comparing songs/albums from the same band.

Still, that band ranking data is worldwide, and maybe In Flames really does get more listens on a worldwide basis than Alicia Keys. I certainly wouldn't bet a lot of money on it, but just because it tells you something different than the mainstream US music industry will have you believe doesn't instantly mean it's untrue.

Recall that last.fm ranks bands based on how much people actually *listen* to music, not if they buy it and then put it on a shelf like sales figures rank bands. So if it upsets some long-held beliefs, that's not a surprise, since before last.fm, there was never a system that revealed that sort of listening-based information.

Neil

come over to my apartment and show me. We can hang out and exchange data all day.

 

[Akumu]

Neil,
I am not sure if I asked you in THIS thread or another, but I asked about how LAST.FM works, as I truly don't know.
So it sounds like it's a place where music is posted?
Who posts the music there for people to listen to?
Are they official postings of the songs from the bands / labels, or is it the fans?

It tracks listening habits. You create an account; download a plugin to either your computer or iPod; and it generates charts based on how many times you listen to a song/artist/etc.

It also generates band recommendations based on your tastes - "if you listen to this band, you'll probably like this band" - and it comes with its own radio stations for each artist. For example, the station for Kamelot includes songs by Masterplan, Serenity, Avantasia, Symphony X, and Epica. The songs are uploaded by either the bands themselves or their labels. It used to have full album streaming on-demand, but that's no longer in service.

 

[Jasonic]

Well, since Neil himself said that LAST.FM statistics are credible, here is some data for you to chew on:

Here are three current bands that tour A LOT:
BLACKGUARD = 158,782 plays / 9,053 listenters
MUTINY WITHIN = 294,088 plays / 9,668 listeners
POWERGLOVE = 622,721 plays / 16,133 listeners

Now here are three bands who are well respected in the underground metal community who do not tour regularly:
AGALLOCH = 8,665,666 plays / 171,457 listeners
NOVEMBERS DOOM = 1,811,996 plays / 63,717 listeners
SATURNUS = 1,558,835 plays / 28,021 listeners

Sure, we can sit all day and pull different bands that would generate different results, but these bands who in my opinion "overexpose" are not generating the amount of listens on LAST.FM (picking a resource YOU stated as relevant) as bands who don't tour regularly but create well-respected metal.

Finally, FUCK, does AGALLOCH get a lot of online listening.

 

[Jasonic]

It tracks listening habits. You create an account; download a plugin to either your computer or iPod; and it generates charts based on how many times you listen to a song/artist/etc.

Thanks! That was the part I didn't quite know about, in linking it to your IPOD.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

All your "survey" shows is ...

BLACKGUARD = 158,782 plays / 9,053 listenters
MUTINY WITHIN = 294,088 plays / 9,668 listeners
POWERGLOVE = 622,721 plays / 16,133 listeners

Group A: bands that have only been around for a year or two

AGALLOCH = 8,665,666 plays / 171,457 listeners
NOVEMBERS DOOM = 1,811,996 plays / 63,717 listeners
SATURNUS = 1,558,835 plays / 28,021 listeners

Group B: bands that have been around for AT LEAST 10-15 years

 

[Jasonic]

Claus - you missed the point entirely.

Given the amount of people that the three bands from Column A have played live in front of, should there be THAT much of a discrepancy (IE - millions???) in the amount of plays their songs have as opposed to bands from Column B?

Why does Agalloch have 8+ million listens?????
Because they create some of the most unique metal out there today.
Period. It wasn't from hopping on 5 tours of recycled bands in one year.

The point is that with ALL the touring the bands from Column A that you are all defending, it doesn't seem to terribly result in increased listenings.

 

[Diabolik]

All your "survey" shows is ...



Group A: bands that have only been around for a year or two



Group B: bands that have been around for AT LEAST 10-15 years

really? now you are going to there? If it was the other way around you would be saying that lack of touring is why Agalloch / Nov Doom / and Saturnus have lower numbers but you are now proven wrong.

With the amount of touring that Blackguard does they should have tons of listens even if it is people curious to hear what they sound like.

 

[Jasonic]

really? now you are going to there? If it was the other way around you would be saying that lack of touring is why Agalloch / Nov Doom / and Saturnus have lower numbers but you are now proven wrong.

THANK YOU SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly.

Bottom line - Tour all the hell you want. Quality will always prevail.

 

[dcowboys311]

Now let's rank those bands with some other bands you've mentioned in this thread to try and prove your point...

POWERGLOVE = 622,721 plays / 16,133 listeners
Manilla Road = 575,948 plays/12,617 listeners
MUTINY WITHIN = 294,088 plays / 9,668 listeners
BLACKGUARD = 158,782 plays / 9,053 listenters
Slough Feg = 221,426 plays/8,602 listeners
Atlantean Kodex = 26,122 plays/1,063 listeners

 

[skyrefuge]

come over to my apartment and show me. We can hang out and exchange data all day.

Ummmm.....I'm flattered, but I'm not really into "exchanging data" with dudes...

Neil

 

[Claus / Intromental]

The two of you are the funniest creatures I've seen on this forum ever - this is hilarious ... you make your own conclusions based on your personal taste, and don't take any other factors (facts even!) into consideration. I love you guys, seriously, I do.

Quoted from the ever so loving mr Diabolik:
If it was the other way around you would be saying that lack of touring is why Agalloch / Nov Doom / and Saturnus have lower numbers but you are now proven wrong.

Oh yeah, you really proved me wrong. Wait, what? Where was I wrong? Show me my ways... I just stated 1 (one, o-n-e) thing, that Jason's numbers showed a correlation between how "old" the bands were. Where did I mention anything about those #'s showing anything related to touring? I didn't ... never ... that's all something that Neil has been postulating, not me. LastFM is not (in my opinion) a reliable source for much. All I pointed out (can you read?) was that all that survey showed was 2 sets of data, one from bands who are 1-2 years old and one from bands who are 10-15 years old.

Quoted from the cheerful mr Jasonic:
Bottom line - Tour all the hell you want. Quality will always prevail.

Oh yeah? Again with the "our bands are quality, yours are not" thing?
You really have got to get past that.

And while we're at it - let's talk about touring - can you guess how many times I've seen Powerglove, Mutiny Within or Blackguard? ONCE! (actually, that was only BG, never seen the other two). Can you guess how many times I've seen Saturnus? Somewhere between 15 and 20 times perhaps. But you're right, they just sit at home and don't tour ... right ... It doesn't prove any point, seriously - not one damn single point.

Come on guys, between the two of you there HAS to be just a little sense and reading comprehension, right?