What Gets You Mad?

[Kabab_k]

Wow... seems that this discussion hunts me down whenever board I may roam.
Well, for all of u that wrote here stuff about this subject, just a little mark - this can't be solved in one message on a board. its very complicated shit. but, we can try.

For anyone who thought else.. far before the holocaust jews came to Israel(which by then was known as Palestine). they were a minority there that suffered much death and persecution by both the arab citizens and those who ruled there that times(turkish armies, british..). that times no one gave shit about Jews, and some while after hitler came and did what he did... oh, suddenly, after the holocaust, the whole world started caring about this people named Jews.
Anyway, if U wanna get into arguments style 'they were here first'. U should know that something like 1931 years ago.. guess who were kicked out of Israel(yep.., the Jews). so if U'r saying "This piece of territory was occupied by Jews 50 years ago. therefore, the arabs have rights for this land these days". well, I don't recall the romans 1931 years ago calling the Jews to come back for their homeland, nor the greeks nor the turkish people nor the british people or whoever ruled here after the romans left this place. so, the winner, unfortunately(mostly), always, in those territory situations is - the stronger one. U cant disagree on that one.
And just for the record - do U know how many Muslim countries exists?(about 100) do U know how many Jewish countries exists?(1). if U think the Palestinians actually prefer to live together with Jews instead of Muslims U wrong. they're refugees by their own choice. they have where to go.
In my opinion, its a problem of leadership, they usual to listen to their leaders. so if the leader(in this case, Yasser Arafat) preach to stick and fight - thats what they will do... heck, thats what they were doing over the last 50 years. this man is using them. USA paying shitloads of money to the Palestinian authority, and what he does is taking all the money for himself and for his politics associates. this causes to their society become very poor, which is another thing he use(very poor people don't care to perform suicide terror acts).

No silly comments plz.

 

[Itay]

yeah great explanition!

 

[MetalManCPA]

Wow - didn't think my simple question would evolve into this religious/ethical discussion. Thought it was a fairly straight-forward question.

In a way, this is something that also gets me mad, but please, don't take it personally. What gets me mad is our (humans)inability to keep on track, be as clear and concise as possible. Most people (including myself) start letting emotions take over, thus, we become blind to the task at hand. How did "What Gets You Mad" become an Israeli/Palestinian discussion? This is a bad case of that old telephone line game, where 20 people whisper down a line, and we see how distorted the message #1 said comes out of #20.

Make another thread about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and I'll give my opinion there.

 

[Evil Edith]

Originally posted by Itay
yeah great explanition!

Was it? His english was so fucked up I totally couldn't follow it but I'll take your word for it. Bravo. Give the man a peace prize.

 

[Kabab_k]

Originally posted by Evil Edith


Was it? His english was so fucked up I totally couldn't follow it but I'll take your word for it. Bravo. Give the man a peace prize.

Can u get more low than that ?
lame...

 

[Duvall]

Okay, on behalf of the non-hebrew speaking individuals here, I'm gonna ask politely that no more hebrew is posted. Well, not whole posts of it, you know?

We've had the occasional swedish post, or a latin title/sig, but no threads that required translation for the vast majority of us.

And I second metalmancpa on his last post. I'm just as bad as anyone, but let's not get personal, okay?

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Kabab_k
Wow... seems that this discussion hunts me down whenever board I may roam.
Well, for all of u that wrote here stuff about this subject, just a little mark - this can't be solved in one message on a board. its very complicated shit. but, we can try.

For anyone who thought else.. far before the holocaust jews came to Israel(which by then was known as Palestine). they were a minority there that suffered much death and persecution by both the arab citizens and those who ruled there that times(turkish armies, british..). that times no one gave shit about Jews, and some while after hitler came and did what he did... oh, suddenly, after the holocaust, the whole world started caring about this people named Jews.
Anyway, if U wanna get into arguments style 'they were here first'. U should know that something like 1931 years ago.. guess who were kicked out of Israel(yep.., the Jews). so if U'r saying "This piece of territory was occupied by Jews 50 years ago. therefore, the arabs have rights for this land these days". well, I don't recall the romans 1931 years ago calling the Jews to come back for their homeland, nor the greeks nor the turkish people nor the british people or whoever ruled here after the romans left this place. so, the winner, unfortunately(mostly), always, in those territory situations is - the stronger one. U cant disagree on that one.
And just for the record - do U know how many Muslim countries exists?(about 100) do U know how many Jewish countries exists?(1). if U think the Palestinians actually prefer to live together with Jews instead of Muslims U wrong. they're refugees by their own choice. they have where to go.
In my opinion, its a problem of leadership, they usual to listen to their leaders. so if the leader(in this case, Yasser Arafat) preach to stick and fight - thats what they will do... heck, thats what they were doing over the last 50 years. this man is using them. USA paying shitloads of money to the Palestinian authority, and what he does is taking all the money for himself and for his politics associates. this causes to their society become very poor, which is another thing he use(very poor people don't care to perform suicide terror acts).

No silly comments plz.

Kebab,
I doubt we will achieve world-peace here, but you seem to be a reasonable person, so me let put some points worth pondering:
-There two sides to any story; imagine how many different sides are to HISTORY. Therefore where do you draw the line? 5 yrs ago, 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 50 yrs, 100 yrs, 2000 yrs?
-Secondly, religion doesn't give you the right to evict ppl from their homes. Nor a tragedy of tremendous proportions like the holocaust. The claim that there are "100 muslim states and therefore the Palestinians are refugees by their own choice" is appalling. It's essentially the twisted argument that hitler made "Germany is a christian state, so let the jews leave Germany". Also I'd like to remind you that there close to 6 million jews in the USA, but nobody is telling them to leave since there's a Jewish state (israel) in the midd-east.
-Thirdly, nobody will listen to calls for violence unless the premises are already there. Arabs are not stupid to blindly obey Arafat unless the grievances are already there. And believe me if you were born and grew up in a squallid refuge camp, you'd be very inclined to fight. For all it's worth, the "democratic state of Israel" has done little or nothing to reach a fair deal with the Palestinians.
-Fourthly, the problem will not be solved by discussions. Peaceful protests do not work. They worked in India with Ghandhi, but unfortunately Arafat ain't Ghandhi and Israelis are not the Briitsh either.
-Fifthly, Israel is strong in the Mid-East because of the US aid& help... namley $3 billion/yr. When the internal political landscape in the US changes (i.e. the Muslims have more say in who goes to Senate, and who goes to Congress) I suspect the Mid-East will be re-visited. I hope but that time you're smart enough to reach a peace deal. Otherwise it's going be an uphill task for the Jews.

Ans as a sidenote Bush will do little or nothing to get things done. Also, the US public is appalled by the military atrocities as well as suicide bombs. However, the prevailing view is that we should stop helping either side. I'm curious to see how Israel will deal with that...

 

[HoserHellspawn]

Creating a thread in which you're going to speak hebrew, swedish, whatever is cool by me, but I'll agree with Duvall that it'd be nice if we could stick to english on the more general ones. Thanks!

metalmancpa, I can certainly understand your perspective that we jumped way off topic from the original intent of the thread, but conversations go off on tangents and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Sorry to stray from your presented topic, but it's gonna happen, y'know?

Anyways, some other things that tend to get me mad are people that impose their perspectives/beliefs/ideals/principles upon others, especially if that's matched with an egocentric ignorance of "I KNOW I'm right". I tend to take the opinion in any situation that my mind is never 100% made up about anything and somebody else who knows more about something could be right. I can also get annoyed by people with strong debating skills who always take the perspective that they are, in fact, correct because they can argue endlessly without "losing" even when they know that they'll later contradict themselves and prove themselves wrong through their actions in a given circumstance. That just gives the impression of being too arrogant to admit that someone else might be right.

 

[Kem]

Lots of things annoy me about public transport. I hate when people sit on the aisle seat so no one can sit next to them. I hate when school kids leave their bags everywhere so you have to step over them. I hate when people get on a bus and don't even know where it's going and make everyone else late because they have to ask the driver where it goes. I hate when people stand up even when there are heaps of seats left. I hate when people take up more than their seat. I hate when people listen to shitty music up loud on the bus. I hate when people sniff like incessantly. I hate when people fiddle with things and tap their feet for no apparent reason. I hate when people stop right in front of you to have a conversation with someone. I hate it when people try read newspapers on public transport. I hate when people are 3 hours late to things. I hate when people make unnecessary noises when they eat. I hate how they put a GST on pads and tampons. I hate how guys always leave the toilet seat up. I hate when people walk along and don't lift their shoes off the ground properly so they make this scrapey sound when they walk along. I hate...ah I just hate it.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Kem
I hate when people make unnecessary noises when they eat. I hate how guys always leave the toilet seat up.

Yep, I hate it too when people make unnecessary noises when they eat. However, I hate how girls always leave the toilet seat down. You barge into the bathroom at the last humanly possible moment to hold it, just to find out that you have to bend over and lift the seat. It's struggle trying to contain the.. Oh I have not the words.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by HoserHellspawn
metalmancpa, I can certainly understand your perspective that we jumped way off topic from the original intent of the thread, but conversations go off on tangents and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Sorry to stray from your presented topic, but it's gonna happen, y'know?

Yeah, I know conversations go astray. And I know it's usually not bad. I guess I see it too much in the spoken world, and had a momentary wish for a utopian thread of concise perfection. I am a dreamer, aren't I?

 

[Kem]

No no no

Look, think about it. When a girl goes to the toilet the seat is always down. 50% of the time when a guy goes to the toilet he needs it down too. So really, 3/4 of the time the toilet seat is needed to be down. When a guy comes along to do a pee, he should put the seat back down, i.e. leave it how he found it. You don't open a door, walk through it and then not close it behind you. You just don't!!!!!! Rah! The only time a guy should leave the seat up is if he found it like that. End of story.

 

[Kabab_k]

Originally posted by Wolff

Kebab,
I doubt we will achieve world-peace here, but you seem to be a reasonable person, so me let put some points worth pondering:

Interesting points Wolff. no, we won't achieve world-peace here, but as long the discussion is interesting its ok. anyway, here is what I think about them:

Originally posted by Wolff

-There two sides to any story; imagine how many different sides are to HISTORY. Therefore where do you draw the line? 5 yrs ago, 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 50 yrs, 100 yrs, 2000 yrs?

Well these is one of the main problem. however, what I've wrote there was as a reply to other messages. read those messages and ask they'r authors.

Originally posted by Wolff
-Secondly, religion doesn't give you the right to evict ppl from their homes. Nor a tragedy of tremendous proportions like the holocaust. The claim that there are "100 muslim states and therefore the Palestinians are refugees by their own choice" is appalling. It's essentially the twisted argument that hitler made "Germany is a christian state, so let the jews leave Germany". Also I'd like to remind you that there close to 6 million jews in the USA, but nobody is telling them to leave since there's a Jewish state (israel) in the midd-east.
[/B]

Of course religion deosn't gives U the right to evacuate people(in a democratic country). but U have to understand that when the U.N declared Israel as a jewish country, there wasn't anything here! no country, no cities, no goverment. nothing but a bunch of people fighting. no one kicked the palestinians out just because they was arabs. on the day that the state of Israel formed - the armies of syria, egypt, lebanon, iraq and jordan invaded into Israel, this war's name is Independence war. so as many groups of arabs inside the country(the palestinians) gathered with weapons and attacked Jewish villages and helped to those enemies countries. the Israeli army fought 'em till they've run out of Israel's territory(evicted, if U want). do U think leaving them here slaughtering civilians in a time of war was a reasonable thing to do ? does those 6 million jews living in the USA killing any civilians? when they'll start, kick them. I'll support it.
go ahead, compare what I've said to hitler's, I don't care. what U can't compare is what he did. he didn't kicked no one, he persecuted/abused and murded 6 million people. got the difference ?

Originally posted by Wolff
-Thirdly, nobody will listen to calls for violence unless the premises are already there. Arabs are not stupid to blindly obey Arafat unless the grievances are already there. And believe me if you were born and grew up in a squallid refuge camp, you'd be very inclined to fight. For all it's worth, the "democratic state of Israel" has done little or nothing to reach a fair deal with the Palestinians.
[/B]

exactly! Arafat brings them to a very fucked up condition and then blame it on Israel. and if someone don't follow him - they'll kill him. they'r naturally blame everything on Israel. have U ever saw whats going on in they'r media??? this is a fucking circus. couple of days ago they wrote an article about Israely naked women that goes to their territories and when she gets enough attention from the men she start shooting everyone! hehe..

Originally posted by Wolff
-Fourthly, the problem will not be solved by discussions. Peaceful protests do not work. They worked in India with Ghandhi, but unfortunately Arafat ain't Ghandhi and Israelis are not the Briitsh either.
[/B]

agree. nothing to add here.

Originally posted by Wolff
-Fifthly, Israel is strong in the Mid-East because of the US aid& help... namley $3 billion/yr. When the internal political landscape in the US changes (i.e. the Muslims have more say in who goes to Senate, and who goes to Congress) I suspect the Mid-East will be re-visited. I hope but that time you're smart enough to reach a peace deal. Otherwise it's going be an uphill task for the Jews.
[/B]

right, but don't forget Israel contributing to USA much of weapon inventions(for example, this missle against missle technology). there are many stuff associated with this weapon issue between Israel and USA, most of 'em secretly. also the support of Israel against Saddam Hussain is importent to USA.
what do U know about reaching peace agreements? over the last 50 years we've gave the palestinians through those agreements territories, guns, water... and what we've got in return? more terror.

Originally posted by Wolff
Ans as a sidenote Bush will do little or nothing to get things done. Also, the US public is appalled by the military atrocities as well as suicide bombs. However, the prevailing view is that we should stop helping either side. I'm curious to see how Israel will deal with that... [/B]

well, thats exactly what the people in Israel want. we r an independence country, leave us to take care our problems. USA and U.N casing only problems to Israel. have U heard about the 3 Israeli soldiers that have been kidnapped, with help from U.N messengers ? (and even taped it)
believe me, we've been into 6 horrible wars(most of 'em against more than 4 countries at the same time) and we've always won and conquered more territories from our enemies(which is the only way to reach peace agreement with such countries).
if U were more up to date U would see that the "help" that U'r talking about, its always the Palestinians or egypt or another arab country asking for.

I hope this html crap will work well on this message...
anyway, have a nice day.

 

[dune_666]

My turn to rant...

Isn't the real issue regarding Palestinian-Isreali tension one of autonomy? The hypocritical way that the UN and Western dominated alliances enforces their will on other nations is the real inherant crime. Who is the UN to decide anything about other nations? If nations want to enter a pact, then thats fine by me. But as soon as they enforce their will on a nation that is not in agreement is when the line is crossed. When countries violate the autonomy of others they need to say "we did it for our own good" and stop blowing sun shine up everyone's ass about human right's concerns or whatever excuse they come up with.

I hate the hypocrisy everyone shows toward the U.S. Somone on this board implied that Israel needed "help." I can only assume this was directed towards the U.S. or Western nations in general. Everyone complains when we intervene, except when we help them out specifically. Its this picking and choosing of who to help that is the problem. We should either help no one, or tell everyone what to do.

Why should we help Israel? That would imply Israel was in the "right." Last time I checked, Israel wasn't holding back much in the way of agression. In the Palestinian-Israeli situation, no one is "right." Both are on the offensive and defensive. Settle it yourselves. I just hope you don't kill everyone in the process.