What is the State of Metal in 2009?
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SerenityNow!
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{-sapob-}
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In that case, this could be said for many other genres as well. Roadrunner is a HUGE label these days. As for Enslaved's labels (seems a different one with every album coming out), not so much, except for Nuclear Blast. They're a pretty big one as well, but not to the extent of RR. So, yes Ghost Reveries and Watershed have had extensive exposure through RR. Enslaved, IMO, is more just coming out from the underground. But I must agree that both Enslaved and Opeth are two bands that definitely have not grown stagnant or old, regardless of how much exposure they've gained over the recent years.
Now straight-up "old school" death metal, "old school" black metal, and power metal became stagnant a long time ago. That shit gets old, I don't care how technical a band gets. Obviously there's good and bad, but ideas are running out. Some of those bands become a bit comical after a while. Gore, satanism, or elves running in the forest. Take your pick...
there's nothing original about mixing acoustic parts in with heavy parts, or mixing mellotrons with black metal-ish riffs. notice how those two descriptions characterize opeth and enslaved (2003-present.)
bands like blut aus nord and deathspell omega and negura bunget are leading the extreme metal scene in originality iyam.
metal as an all-inclusive genre stagnated in the 90s, this is a fuckin fact. there's certain bands who break the mold, but in a general sense, metal is stagnant. eos
SerenityNow!
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^Hey, WOW!! Dude, it's OK. Just breathe...
So Opeth and Enslaved are stagnant, huh. Not to me, but maybe I'm just not as experienced. I wasn't talking strictly about the extreme metal scene. DsO, NB, and BAN are still in the metal genre, right? Fact is, there are so many different sub-genres in metal (a very broad and general term these days, I might add) that I don't think it's become stagnant.
But whatever, that's my opinion, and I don't feel that it's so important that I try arguing my point! Fuck it! I love stagnant music!!
So Opeth and Enslaved are stagnant, huh. Not to me, but maybe I'm just not as experienced. I wasn't talking strictly about the extreme metal scene. DsO, NB, and BAN are still in the metal genre, right? Fact is, there are so many different sub-genres in metal (a very broad and general term these days, I might add) that I don't think it's become stagnant.
But whatever, that's my opinion, and I don't feel that it's so important that I try arguing my point! Fuck it! I love stagnant music!!
I'm perfectly calm, I'm also just stating a fact. people who think the metal genre in general can still be original, are retarded. yes of course there are bands who are doing things their own way (ie dso ban etc) but in a general sense, metal - just like all other genres of music - has stagnated and did so a long time ago.
please, inform me about the originality in the metal scene today. because other than a handful of bands, I honestly can't think of much that's truly breaking boundaries or being innovative. I mean shit, as much as I like them, nachtmystium is touted as being some kind of original thing - but enslaved (just to prove how ridiculous this is) has been doing the prog/psych black metal thing since 2003, and nachtmystium only just picked up on it in the last 2 or 3 years. and before enslaved, bands like in the woods... were doing it. so any bands who are touted today as being "original" or "innovative" or "groundbreaking" in metal, probably aren't.
please, inform me about the originality in the metal scene today. because other than a handful of bands, I honestly can't think of much that's truly breaking boundaries or being innovative. I mean shit, as much as I like them, nachtmystium is touted as being some kind of original thing - but enslaved (just to prove how ridiculous this is) has been doing the prog/psych black metal thing since 2003, and nachtmystium only just picked up on it in the last 2 or 3 years. and before enslaved, bands like in the woods... were doing it. so any bands who are touted today as being "original" or "innovative" or "groundbreaking" in metal, probably aren't.
SerenityNow!
*burp*
...guess I'm retarded or something...:zombie:
So, good! Now we've come to the generalization that ALL music genres gave stagnated over the years. So it's not just metal anymore. Like I said, I guess I'm not as experienced as some around here. I mean we can break it all down to guitar, bass, drums, vocals, keyboards (ooh, different!) and bam! You got music; and it's probably stagnant. So why inform you if you've already seemed to be informed. So the fact that it's all been done before means MUSIC is dead. I'll still listen to it. There are plenty of bands out there (metal and non-metal) I have yet to discover, so I haven't lost all hope...
So, good! Now we've come to the generalization that ALL music genres gave stagnated over the years. So it's not just metal anymore. Like I said, I guess I'm not as experienced as some around here. I mean we can break it all down to guitar, bass, drums, vocals, keyboards (ooh, different!) and bam! You got music; and it's probably stagnant. So why inform you if you've already seemed to be informed. So the fact that it's all been done before means MUSIC is dead. I'll still listen to it. There are plenty of bands out there (metal and non-metal) I have yet to discover, so I haven't lost all hope...
I have difficulty accepting that metal is dying out, and feel like there is MORE metal now (and more diverse choices within the genre) than there has ever been. The fact that the genre SEEMS to be stagnating (which doesn't ring true with me, incidentally) does not mean that it is dying out. Working within an existing genre does have artistic merit. Not every band needs to break the mold! That would be annoying. There's always room for a REALLY GOOD BAND, regardless of how "new" they sound. Write good songs, play well, and that should be enough. Don't retread, necessarily. But don't resort to gimmicks, like "blackened bluegrass". That's a kind of innovation I don't need.
How many different subgenres of metal are there? Each represents the innovation of at least one band. For in metal, we reward innovation with subgenres for some reason. The fact that there are so many subgenres, especially in a genre that gets so little mainstream support, says to me that it is alive. How can death metal possibly be innovative? There characteristics that make a band dm. Likewise for black metal. Right now, innovation seems to land one with the tag "progressive" or "avant garde". Maybe that will change, and there will be separate genre for what it is that Opeth does, for example. And innovation in art often involves looking back. Sometimes some artists just look a lot further back.
By the way, I don't think that a decrease in metal tours has as much to do with the genre as it has to do with the current state of the economy. I'm guessing that all touring has sort of slowed down. But I could be wrong.
Maybe it would help to examine the lifecycles of various metal trends. That's sort of what I was thinking about in my initial post. For example, when did progressive elements first start making their entrance into metal? Is that trend on the way up or down? Folk influence? Blues? Classical (okay, Baroque) music? Rap? Pop? Psychedelia? Electronic music? Noise? Hardcore? Overall complexity? World music?
For me, one of the biggest trends I've seen in my lifetime is that metal has become more extreme. Perhaps that's a given, but I don't think so. It's faster, louder, more dissonant, more violent. And, to me, when you listen to classic metal, like Sabbath or Maiden, and compare it to something more modern, like Opeth or Meshuggah, what stands out is the DRUMMING. Drummers now seem to me to have become completely different animals. That is where I think the greatest change has been.
What I want in metal is being satisfied right now by bands like Opeth, Enslaved, Gojira, Cynic, and Wolves in the Throne Room. Are they all pushing the envelope? To a degree. But am I like most people? Probably not. For me, the state of metal is good. But I am curious about the trends you all see.
How many different subgenres of metal are there? Each represents the innovation of at least one band. For in metal, we reward innovation with subgenres for some reason. The fact that there are so many subgenres, especially in a genre that gets so little mainstream support, says to me that it is alive. How can death metal possibly be innovative? There characteristics that make a band dm. Likewise for black metal. Right now, innovation seems to land one with the tag "progressive" or "avant garde". Maybe that will change, and there will be separate genre for what it is that Opeth does, for example. And innovation in art often involves looking back. Sometimes some artists just look a lot further back.
By the way, I don't think that a decrease in metal tours has as much to do with the genre as it has to do with the current state of the economy. I'm guessing that all touring has sort of slowed down. But I could be wrong.
Maybe it would help to examine the lifecycles of various metal trends. That's sort of what I was thinking about in my initial post. For example, when did progressive elements first start making their entrance into metal? Is that trend on the way up or down? Folk influence? Blues? Classical (okay, Baroque) music? Rap? Pop? Psychedelia? Electronic music? Noise? Hardcore? Overall complexity? World music?
For me, one of the biggest trends I've seen in my lifetime is that metal has become more extreme. Perhaps that's a given, but I don't think so. It's faster, louder, more dissonant, more violent. And, to me, when you listen to classic metal, like Sabbath or Maiden, and compare it to something more modern, like Opeth or Meshuggah, what stands out is the DRUMMING. Drummers now seem to me to have become completely different animals. That is where I think the greatest change has been.
What I want in metal is being satisfied right now by bands like Opeth, Enslaved, Gojira, Cynic, and Wolves in the Throne Room. Are they all pushing the envelope? To a degree. But am I like most people? Probably not. For me, the state of metal is good. But I am curious about the trends you all see.
{-sapob-}
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Your right there are a lot of bands out there now, and thats the #1 problem.
there are alot of "copy cat bands"
(Evile are really bad for that. Airbourne too.)
That leads to the stagnation.
I agree with what you say about how a band doesnt necessarily be original to be good. But good only gets a couple of listens, on the weekend while the boys are around playing pool and sinking a couple of beers.
The Original bands however when great are great.
they get you obsessing, spending money to buy releases, books fucking locks of hair from the drummer
(most definitely not speaking from experience.....Thatd be weird....although axe does have some nice hair Jokes.)
I dunno im going to stop before I lose myself in this text.
there are alot of "copy cat bands"
(Evile are really bad for that. Airbourne too.)
That leads to the stagnation.
I agree with what you say about how a band doesnt necessarily be original to be good. But good only gets a couple of listens, on the weekend while the boys are around playing pool and sinking a couple of beers.
The Original bands however when great are great.
they get you obsessing, spending money to buy releases, books fucking locks of hair from the drummer
(most definitely not speaking from experience.....Thatd be weird....although axe does have some nice hair Jokes.)I dunno im going to stop before I lose myself in this text.
BloodSword
Member
Yeah man, I've been called absurd before, not just my statements. Now, I'm fuckin' sad!!
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but although a ton of bands are doing the soft/heavy or acoustic/distorted mix, I think it's still possible to be sort of original with it. If you look at In Flames, yea it's kinda cool that they have these nice little medieval sounding acoustic intros then go into some melodic death, but ultimately the song writing isn't sophisticated, riffs may be different from song to song but for the most part, the style really remains the same from song to song. Opeth may be somewhat like this in earlier albums but I think their soft/heavy mixes are maintaining some originality lately for sure. Sure other bands have used the mellotron but how many good metal albums really explore those multiple styles in depth and make each song drastically different from the other like Opeth have with say, tracks 2-4 of GR or tracks 2-4 of WS. I've recently gotten into DsO though, and they're definitely a breath of fresh air, so, again, not totally disagreeing with you.
burntoast
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Not necessarily. I'm not against innovation or experimentation, just to be clear. My point is that dismissing metal as "stagnant" because of an apparent lack of innovation is silly. There are still quite a few vibrant bands out there releasing good music, even if it's not breaking ground. Innovation for the sake of innovation is stupid.
What?
{-sapob-}
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Yeh i feel kinda silly for that, but if you read my other post you might see what i mean.......
Jester-Race
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I've listened to tons of metal and other newer bands and I have to truly and honestly say....
Gojira - The Way of All Flesh once fully understood is quite possibly the best thing I've come across in.... well..... forever.
I've never heard a CD with so much ferocity and emotion as well as unlike anything you've ever heard before with intensity and great musicianship... even at moments complete randomness that I believe these guys are going to go very very far, and with every cd I believe these people will be recognized more and more which is a fantastically great thing. Every person with a like-minded music taste as me has gotten completely and entirely addicted to them as much as I have. Just like Opeth, because of pure talent they are likely to spread far an wide like they deserve.
The more I have listened to them, the more amazing they get. Unbelievable.
Gojira - The Way of All Flesh once fully understood is quite possibly the best thing I've come across in.... well..... forever.
I've never heard a CD with so much ferocity and emotion as well as unlike anything you've ever heard before with intensity and great musicianship... even at moments complete randomness that I believe these guys are going to go very very far, and with every cd I believe these people will be recognized more and more which is a fantastically great thing. Every person with a like-minded music taste as me has gotten completely and entirely addicted to them as much as I have. Just like Opeth, because of pure talent they are likely to spread far an wide like they deserve.
The more I have listened to them, the more amazing they get. Unbelievable.
stagnation leads to innovation, we dont have to be worried about its presence at all.
the more stagnated formulaic music there is, the more youngsters will be disgusted by it and use their natural genius to come up with new ideas and styles (like early 80s thrash metal response to shitloads of unoriginal hair metal fags) as they always have and music will continue to progress, as it always has
the more stagnated formulaic music there is, the more youngsters will be disgusted by it and use their natural genius to come up with new ideas and styles (like early 80s thrash metal response to shitloads of unoriginal hair metal fags) as they always have and music will continue to progress, as it always has
Chinese Whispers
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On the whole innovation/stagnation debate, I think you can probably add refinement as well to that list. It is still possibly to be doing something great that tips its hat to the past, but improves upon it. Because, in the great scheme of things, just because you do something first, doesn't necessarily mean your the best at it.
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