What the hell is wrong with our songs ? or is it just me ?...

AceFireForce117

AceFireForce117

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Dec 13, 2011
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Hi everyone !

I just need some other point of views and even some advice if need be...

I've finally finished mixing and "mastering" my band's first demo, we're really excited about it and can't wait to put it on our websites and so on.

It's been really interesting following all the threads on this incredible website, i've learned so much ! For that I thank you all. I would be very pleased to know what you guys think about it :D

Coz i'm just not happy with the results.

The mixing went fine except for the drum snare (all the drums were midi files mixed from ez metalheads) It's just not coming out as i would, it hasn't got that natural smack... When i compare to chris adler's drums or like amon amarth etc. it's not the same feeling (not sound but feeling) Yeah midi... but still :/

a part from that it's just the whole sound of it really everything is sitting together nicely but I don’t know if the kick needs a bit more bass and less 2/4K shelf and the rhythm guitars sound pretty damn weird to me !

The whole thing is lacking something i just can't figure out what or what to do !

I'm thinking aswell it could be izotope ozone's fault, (i'm using that plugin to "home master" the tracks).
I started off with the “4 band master Excitation and widening preset”,
and lowered the multiband harmonic exciter band 3 and 4 and put 0,5 and 0,9 on band 1 and 2.
Also I lowered the threshold in the loudness maximizer to -11 and the margin to -0.3 to raise the volume.

Better than just words here are two clips from one of our songs. One is mastered, the other isn't. All songs have the same sound practically.

Unmastered : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21142764/FT10 clip unmastered.mp3

Mastered : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21142764/FT10 clip mastered 1.mp3

there is something weird going on... it seems too boomy & weird... I need some sleep :loco:

I'm looking forward to your replies,

Thanks \\m//

EDIT: After : unmastered http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21142764/FT10 Clip.mp3

Mastered : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21142764/FT10 Clip mastered.mp3

AND the newest version i think i've pretty much nailed it (done at home so i don't have the vocals or bass tracks) :

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21142764/Sins Remain Home Clip Mastered 66.mp3

What do you all think ?

I can't get as good as this snare though :(



EDIT 2 :

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21142764/Sins Remain Home Clip Mastered 2.0.mp3

think i've nailed it this time
 
Last edited by a moderator:
First off to me, it seems like the guitars are played sloppy.
Also I think the guitars are clouding up the drums in the mix. Try cutting the frequencies in the guitars around where the drums are.
 
The guitars seem to have to much eq on them but I'm not sure what you started with. They aren't too bad or unlistenable though. The drum sound just isn't good enough. Maybe you have drumagog? I wouldn't try to fix the sound I would start over.
The mastered one scared me a bit. Probably experiencing vst placebo effect there. I really like the vocals.
 
Thanks for your replies :)
Okay i'll check out the frequencies once again :) mostly cut where there is snare and toms ? or cymbals aswell ?
The guitars have hp/lp and the C4 andy sneap pre for keeping in control those low ends.

I'm using vsts, lepou lecto and lecab 2 with 2 different impulses from the tone vampire : Lamb of god and bfmv, to me both of them mixed well together but after the mastering the guitars don't sound so good :/

Ahah yeah i am using drumagog but it seems to me it did it's job, is there something wrong ?
Must i start over the whole drumkit ?? Do you think with midi i can do better than that ? the snare is completely sampled, i posted a thread before about that because the "original" snare in ez metalhead is total crap.

I'm sorry you got scared ! :D

Vst placebo effect ?

Thanks for the vocals ! :)
 
Yes, the guitars sound very harsh, too much high end for my tastes. Drums definitely need more power and I think the booming effect is likely down to the fact that you are pushing the volume too much.
 
First off, I would let someone other master it - or at least approach it with a more "less is more" approach. The mastering totally drowns the drums, and there's is this very obvious pumping effect. From experience I know, that it is easy getting impressed by the sheer increase in volume when mastering - but it doesn't necessarily sound good.

As for the drums sound, are all drums midi-files? If so, I'm a bit surprised that they don't "cut" better. Ez metalheads is a big downer for me - I only enjoy the toms. Drumkit from hell cuts better on the snare, allthough many hate the snaresound on its own. I'm also using Metal Machine, initially they're a bit dull for metal, but a little parallel compression certainly goes a long way.

The guitars have a nice thrashy tone to them, maybe a bit overprocessed somehow - and I agree, that they are sloppy played - maybe some less panning would make that less apparent? I too like vocals.

I've just finished recording a new song with my own band, and the drums are ez-drummer (a mix between Metalheadz, Drumkit from hell and metal machine) - our drummer plays a Roland V-drum set. You can hear it here it it is of interest to you:

http://soundcloud.com/let-metal/tungt-heavy
 
Thanks for the help !

I can tell that the guitars aren't overprocessed, it's just the lecto plugin with impulses, then just the Hp/Lp and C4 (or C4 then EQ can't remember).
I'm thinking of trying different impulses and comparing the guitars and drums frequencies with PAZ Analyser to see where they're competing.

What difference between metalheads and drumkit from hell, i completely replace the snare with samples anyway. I'll try some different samples, maybe add one with some high end smack.

And yeah i totally agree with the mastering doing too much. I'll try with a more simple but more efficient approach, or maybe with different plugins because isotope ozone has that digital feel i don't quite appreciate :)

I'm glad you like the vocals :)

Interesting sound you've got there Anger fuse i like it :kickass:
 
There are a lot of really nasty sounding frequencies in there.
Do some strategic cuts on the guitars.
LeCto has been known to have really harsh frequencies if not dialed in right.

Secondly, your kick has very little attack. It's very "flubby", so to speak.
The snare isn't terrible, but try using a transient clipper on it.

Thirdly, is there bass in there?
If there is, I can't hear any of it, not even the low end.
Bring that up and mix to taste with the guitars.
Half of a good guitar tone is a good bass tone.
 
thanks :)

Definitely gonna be cutting some guitar frequencies.
Shiiit ! and i thought that everything was sitting nicely :eek:

Thanks for the help everyone, i'm getting back on it tomorrow i'll tell you how it goes ;)
 
Give a couple other plugins a try as well.

Le456, LeGion, and X50 are all really nice and might sit better than LeCto.

I've found that it's very tricky to get LeCto to sit right in any mix.
 
It sounds like you're putting your guitars through a cheap headphone cable, also turn down the gain of your amp sims, turning the gain to 10 doesn't mean it's going to sound good!
 
Definitely give Le456 or Legion a try, I've got great results with both. Legion is more midrangy and Le456 is more scooped, but if you dial it in right you can get it sounding brutal while retaining clarity. Both are very tight sounding, as opposed to LeCto which I've never been able to get a tight sound out of. Others have mentioned this but I would seriously think about cleaning those guitar tracks up. They're sloppy to the point of throwing off the rhythm of the song. Remember that a good performance is key when you're trying to get a tight mix. Drums definitely need more power, the kick is buried under everything but the actual sound of the kick seems okay.The snare is cutting like a mofo to the point that it's kinda distracting, I'd think about bringing that down and maybe adding a little compression. The vocals are great, they sit pretty well right now.

One thing you might want to consider is that you're never going to fix a bad mix with mastering, so focus on getting the mix sounding wide and clear then use mastering as means to give it that final polish.

EDIT: Thought I would add, it's very easy to overuse Ozone. You've got a exciter, a limiter, multiband compression, eq, so fuck it use em' all! That leads to stuff like "well maybe if i add some more exciter..." when really you can't even tell what the exciter is doing to the mix. Usually when I'm tweaking settings in Ozone and I realize i have no clue what each tweak is doing to improve my mix I stop immediately and take a break. It's really easy to get carried away.
 
The drive is on 5 ;)

And i was using the legion a lot before using the lecto ! the le456 didn't catch my attention for so long, but i think i'll try the legion with all the new settings i'm using now.
I've been mixing all night until i was satisfied with the drums especially the snare, I've been cuting some frequencies in the guitars sooo much better now.

Yeah i know it's always better to have a good sound at the source than to process the shit out of it

Thanks for all the help :)
 
Wow, dude! That sounds much much better, great job on those guitars! The levels are much better now, the master is sounding pretty good. The one weak part of the mix now I think is the snare. It's at a good volume, but it still sounds lifeless and small. A little bit of reverb might help give it some depth.

Not sure if you can do this with EZ Drummer, but one thing I like to do with Superior to fatten the snare up is export a version of the room mics with everything but the snare muted, then compress the shit out of it and high-pass. Then I pull the fader for the track up while playing the mix until it blends in nicely. I find this makes the snare sound much bigger and combined with the reverb glues the mix together nicely.

Hope that helps,
- Aaron
 
True, I think the guitars are still drowning the snare just a tiny bit, i tried putting more reverb (using rverb drum plate preset) didn't quite like it. I think i'll try a different verb :)

What's wrong with the vocals ?

I see what you mean about the guitars what frequencies should i aim to get it off ? won't it suck too much life from them ?

Don't you think the kick is too loud aswell ?..
 
AceFireForce117 said:
True, I think the guitars are still drowning the snare just a tiny bit, i tried putting more reverb (using rverb drum plate preset) didn't quite like it. I think i'll try a different verb :)

What's wrong with the vocals ?

I see what you mean about the guitars what frequencies should i aim to get it off ? won't it suck too much life from them ?

Don't you think the kick is too loud aswell ?..
Click to expand...

I think it's the impulse you're using.
Try some different impulses and see what you get.

The vocals sound really raw and up front for whatever reason.
Add a bit of verb, just a touch of chorus.
Pull some low end out and pull a notch at about 3k.

Try notching the 4500hz level on the guitars.
That is a naturally harsh frequency to the human ear.

Also, raw tracks :D :devil: Would love to mix this.
 
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