What Would The Best Opeth Forum Battle Be?

Sorry to ruin your thread...on second thought im not sorry, i live for this stuff. Peace is over.

First of all Sullen: thanks for keeping it up while i was awake but i must critize one thing: you try to reason with a stupid whore that claims that reads about philosophy and does not even knows what things like misanthropy or nihilism are. You just cant argue with real life's Ned flanders wife ( btw you and satori will make a cute couple too bad he is taken and that you are a stinking whore ). I have more than explained it but ill try yet one more time to end this thing once and for all.

You will never understand me. I hate moral, i hate traditions, i hate values, i hate religions, i hate people, i hate comunities, i hate censorship, i basically hate everything that involves a society. I hate moral because its based on tradictions and proof and error system, it has been build since the dawn of time and is constantly evolving, moral concepts have no practical value is just a set of arbitrary rules that change within decades. People used to stone women to dead if they were not virgin before marriage, and 10 years from now it will be socially correct for 13 or 14 year old girls to have sex, in less than a decate all the moral values about sexuality have been trown away. Basically all moral suffers from this flaw it slowly changes acording to people, hippies can change moral in a decade, moral is just a stupid concept people use to live in harmony with each other, wich is an utopia and a impossible dream.

I hate traditions values and religions because they are all based on moral, just basically not accepting ourselves like we are drive us to try and leave in harmony setting arbitrary rules when the majority of people agree, and that majority is at constant change, to me all of this is so damn stupid, is like a poser kid changing his look in high school every day to "fit in" he could save too much problems with just being whatever the fuck he wants to be. Religion is just an intrincade system that takes advantage of moral to " inflict pain and fear" like chuck said, it just controls people by dictating a system that the majority accepts as correct, then enforces it by making extreme punishment like hell. Maybe something like budism does not follows this patern, but it has its flaws too and i dont wish to discuss them.

I hate people and comunities. I just dont like people, they are too stupid and too selfish, and is on they nature to be that way, a comunity is basically a group of people that choose to be togheter and reject everyone who is not like them, and they grow out of proportion when everyone just changes and "relaxes" or "goes with the flow". It is just an example of human stupidity, humans are selfish beings by nature, their basic animalistic instinct dictates so, every human's ultimate goal is to succed above others and procreate the best breed possible. Even the most complicated thoughts and acts can be linked to this basic concepts, and i have fail ( for 20 years ) to see something human that does not relates to this. All comunities are pointless to me cause i no longer seek companionship i know i will never find like minded people, because like minded people like me would also aspire to the ultimate goal of becoming a hermit. People is just too hypocrite and stupid to even try to live around them without busting into tears and curse life and existance of man kind each night. Is beyond a concept, Misanthropy is a sentiment, one that can never be changed. People will forever fail me and i will forever fail people cause im human, is worthless to try.

Wich brings me to trying. Why do you bother about your kid? ultimately you will die and he will die and that is final, forget fairy tales about heaven or reencarnation, you will be just vermin food. There is no point in worring that much about your kid, or wining an argument on the internet, ultimately there is no point in leaving. Life is meaningless everything we do has no real propuse, everything will be forgotten, satisfaction does not exist, the present cannot be enjoyed because you cannot be aware of the present, you can only be aware of the immediate past, everything we do to make us feel good does not make us feel good it just leaves memories that we like. Every little thing that brings happyness becomes a memory and all memories die whit our bodies but usually sooner. Memories fade away, they grow weak, what it makes you feel on top of the world an hour after it passes, will be allright the next day, and will be just "good times" in the next year. Every single thing we do in life is pointless because there is not propose for anything. There is just nothing. Life is a complete void, we live like robots we do things mecanically and we hang on to our precious teasures like memories, self awareness is a curse. A curse of all intelligent animals like us, cause you will never understand life or time and space, because we humanize this things. Self awareness limit us from a true pure perception of life, it makes us think we should and have a propose, it make us put ourselves goals, we shape the concepts of life and reality to adapt this self awareness, we know we live but we cannot understand that everything we do is completly pointless at all times. Yes everything is pointless, we are just objects in time and space with no real propose, everything we do will be forgotten after we die, our lifespawn ultimately makes life a worthless waste of time, it just does not matters what you do in life you know were it ends: Death. Death that destroys past present and future, death that is just a big void right ahead of us that sucks us down into nothing, death that consumes of us all. This death is our worst fear, and we try to cheat it because we try to put value in our aimless existance and death is just a cold way to remind you that true nothingness is the only thing that is real in this life, we are just a series of events that go on in a random fashion that acomplish absolutely nothing, and death is just an extension of such void. Man cannot understand this void, man create stupid words to define the absense of it all, nothing is the most unaccurate word to describe nothingness, this concept can be too much for someone to understand, but this is exactly what reality is: Nothing. Series of events unrelated of each other that have no real propose on a random universe, so how can our life have any meaning? how can we care about anything when everything we do is pointless, is just nothing is a waste of time, is wasting your energy, is frustrating and going crazy over a simple random event like death, or life. The universe is a big sea and we are but molecules of water floating aimlessly on it. To embrace this void, to accept death, to understand the aimlessly life, is to understand nihilism as i see it.

This is not even the full begining of how i feel about life and mere words just dont make justice to it, and you, you care about things like sees on t.v.? he will never be able to face death, he will never learn how to loose, he will never have a single moment of happyness that doesnt becomes a blury memory that dies with his death, his whole life is a pointless waste and no matter what he does or thinks or tries he will forever live in a shield you and everyone in the world builds in front of them, thinking life has a meaning, thinking death can be cheated, thinking that inocence is a good thing, thinking they are really just trying to be happy and live in harmony with each other. Is just a sad sad thing, they whole life is a lie, everything they do is a lie.

And you care about what your kid watches on tv...please, censorship is rules on top of values on top of moral on top of a society on top of a meaning of life, on top of nothing, is propably the most irrelevant thing i can think off. How can you even hope to understand why i dont give a fuck about you and i could take your life whitout thinking it for a second? how can your little brain process this ammount of information and understand how blind the whole world is and how can you even being to understand how i think moral is stupid and it does nothing? this is why i cant argue with you and i just sent you on your way to eath your chocolate covered kid.
 
Originally posted by Jannet

Wow, that's pretty amazing. But it seems like you still had some kind of social life, since the internet improved your social interaction. Some people have NO social life but the Internet.
Click to expand...

That would be me. Though I'm a nice person (at least I think so) online in real life I've given up on the goodness of the human spirit. I firmly believe that most people don't have the copacity to love anything other than themselves and are prone to hate anything different from them. Thus I've given up any and all hope of befriending people and I think the concept of love is a delusion.

So beyond this forum, and a couple other online places I don't talk to people. Well, I do socialize with my bro's (they usually make me regret it) and their friends sometimes. Beyond tonight, when I decided to tag along with my bro's to eat dinner, I haven't been out in public in a while.

And the thing is, I'm completely fine with this. I actually enjoy my own company, and the company of my thoughts, music, literature, etc. Though I admit I get incredibly lonely sometimes (I made a thread on that some time ago). I don't think of myself as a misanthropist, though sometimes I get real angry at humanity as a whole.

As I once said to my bro tonight: I spend so much time alone so I can be in the presense of a higher class of people. :lol:
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
Sorry to ruin your thread...on second thought im not sorry, i live for this stuff. Peace is over.

First of all Sullen: thanks for keeping it up while i was awake but i must critize one thing: you try to reason with a stupid whore that claims that reads about philosophy and does not even knows what things like misanthropy or nihilism are. You just cant argue with real life's Ned flanders wife ( btw you and satori will make a cute couple too bad he is taken and that you are a stinking whore ). I have more than explained it but ill try yet one more time to end this thing once and for all.

You will never understand me. I hate moral, i hate traditions, i hate values, i hate religions, i hate people, i hate comunities, i hate censorship, i basically hate everything that involves a society. I hate moral because its based on tradictions and proof and error system, it has been build since the dawn of time and is constantly evolving, moral concepts have no practical value is just a set of arbitrary rules that change within decades. People used to stone women to dead if they were not virgin before marriage, and 10 years from now it will be socially correct for 13 or 14 year old girls to have sex, in less than a decate all the moral values about sexuality have been trown away. Basically all moral suffers from this flaw it slowly changes acording to people, hippies can change moral in a decade, moral is just a stupid concept people use to live in harmony with each other, wich is an utopia and a impossible dream.

I hate traditions values and religions because they are all based on moral, just basically not accepting ourselves like we are drive us to try and leave in harmony setting arbitrary rules when the majority of people agree, and that majority is at constant change, to me all of this is so damn stupid, is like a poser kid changing his look in high school every day to "fit in" he could save too much problems with just being whatever the fuck he wants to be. Religion is just an intrincade system that takes advantage of moral to " inflict pain and fear" like chuck said, it just controls people by dictating a system that the majority accepts as correct, then enforces it by making extreme punishment like hell. Maybe something like budism does not follows this patern, but it has its flaws too and i dont wish to discuss them.

I hate people and comunities. I just dont like people, they are too stupid and too selfish, and is on they nature to be that way, a comunity is basically a group of people that choose to be togheter and reject everyone who is not like them, and they grow out of proportion when everyone just changes and "relaxes" or "goes with the flow". It is just an example of human stupidity, humans are selfish beings by nature, their basic animalistic instinct dictates so, every human's ultimate goal is to succed above others and procreate the best breed possible. Even the most complicated thoughts and acts can be linked to this basic concepts, and i have fail ( for 20 years ) to see something human that does not relates to this. All comunities are pointless to me cause i no longer seek companionship i know i will never find like minded people, because like minded people like me would also aspire to the ultimate goal of becoming a hermit. People is just too hypocrite and stupid to even try to live around them without busting into tears and curse life and existance of man kind each night. Is beyond a concept, Misanthropy is a sentiment, one that can never be changed. People will forever fail me and i will forever fail people cause im human, is worthless to try.

Wich brings me to trying. Why do you bother about your kid? ultimately you will die and he will die and that is final, forget fairy tales about heaven or reencarnation, you will be just vermin food. There is no point in worring that much about your kid, or wining an argument on the internet, ultimately there is no point in leaving. Life is meaningless everything we do has no real propuse, everything will be forgotten, satisfaction does not exist, the present cannot be enjoyed because you cannot be aware of the present, you can only be aware of the immediate past, everything we do to make us feel good does not make us feel good it just leaves memories that we like. Every little thing that brings happyness becomes a memory and all memories die whit our bodies but usually sooner. Memories fade away, they grow weak, what it makes you feel on top of the world an hour after it passes, will be allright the next day, and will be just "good times" in the next year. Every single thing we do in life is pointless because there is not propose for anything. There is just nothing. Life is a complete void, we live like robots we do things mecanically and we hang on to our precious teasures like memories, self awareness is a curse. A curse of all intelligent animals like us, cause you will never understand life or time and space, because we humanize this things. Self awareness limit us from a true pure perception of life, it makes us think we should and have a propose, it make us put ourselves goals, we shape the concepts of life and reality to adapt this self awareness, we know we live but we cannot understand that everything we do is completly pointless at all times. Yes everything is pointless, we are just objects in time and space with no real propose, everything we do will be forgotten after we die, our lifespawn ultimately makes life a worthless waste of time, it just does not matters what you do in life you know were it ends: Death. Death that destroys past present and future, death that is just a big void right ahead of us that sucks us down into nothing, death that consumes of us all. This death is our worst fear, and we try to cheat it because we try to put value in our aimless existance and death is just a cold way to remind you that true nothingness is the only thing that is real in this life, we are just a series of events that go on in a random fashion that acomplish absolutely nothing, and death is just an extension of such void. Man cannot understand this void, man create stupid words to define the absense of it all, nothing is the most unaccurate word to describe nothingness, this concept can be too much for someone to understand, but this is exactly what reality is: Nothing. Series of events unrelated of each other that have no real propose on a random universe, so how can our life have any meaning? how can we care about anything when everything we do is pointless, is just nothing is a waste of time, is wasting your energy, is frustrating and going crazy over a simple random event like death, or life. The universe is a big sea and we are but molecules of water floating aimlessly on it. To embrace this void, to accept death, to understand the aimlessly life, is to understand nihilism as i see it.

This is not even the full begining of how i feel about life and mere words just dont make justice to it, and you, you care about things like sees on t.v.? he will never be able to face death, he will never learn how to loose, he will never have a single moment of happyness that doesnt becomes a blury memory that dies with his death, his whole life is a pointless waste and no matter what he does or thinks or tries he will forever live in a shield you and everyone in the world builds in front of them, thinking life has a meaning, thinking death can be cheated, thinking that inocence is a good thing, thinking they are really just trying to be happy and live in harmony with each other. Is just a sad sad thing, they whole life is a lie, everything they do is a lie.

And you care about what your kid watches on tv...please, censorship is rules on top of values on top of moral on top of a society on top of a meaning of life, on top of nothing, is propably the most irrelevant thing i can think off. How can you even hope to understand why i dont give a fuck about you and i could take your life whitout thinking it for a second? how can your little brain process this ammount of information and understand how blind the whole world is and how can you even being to understand how i think moral is stupid and it does nothing? this is why i cant argue with you and i just sent you on your way to eath your chocolate covered kid.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just REALLY wanted to see how it would look to quote all of that. :lol:
 
Misanthrope,

Pessimism is a sentiment, which enlists certain worldly phenomena in order to support itself: ie, the conditions surrounding people.

History shows us again and again what perverse organisms human beings are. Society is filled with the most abominable and lewd behavior. Here's your mistake: You expect the world to pamper you, rather than take up the arms to bear yourself and change what's bad about society and other people, and about yourself. Where do you think the value of goodness takes its root if not in everything that's fucked up, and soiled and dirty? What do you think "art" is? kindness? decency? they are not self-righteous, empty principles. They exist to counter everything that's bad about people and the world, and history and being; that's what morality is and it goes beyond the fluctuating conventions of a societies mores. Whether a person adopts it or not is a matter of choice; it's the only road to salvation people can really expect in this world; it's what gives credence to the words "right" and "wrong".

Your sentiment is right. I do not seek to change it. But you're wrong to think it's neccesary for everyone else. You say negativity is not a concept but then you argue for it. Absurd considering it's only a sentiment. You cannot change other people's choices to view life by a different avenue of feeling. Like yours they are extensions of feeling and gain their justification precisely *inasmuch* as they are feeling. That you forget this is an error which voids your post entirely.
 
Originally posted by E V I L
Your sentiment is right. I do not seek to change it. But you're wrong to think it's neccesary for everyone else. You say negativity is not a concept but then you argue for it. Absurd considering it's only a sentiment. You cannot change other people's choices to view life by a different avenue of feeling. Like yours they are extensions of feeling and gain their justification precisely *inasmuch* as they are feeling. That you forget this is an error which voids your post entirely.
Click to expand...

Interesting... So, basically, what you are saying is that he DIDN'T actually write that post and my computer DIDN'T nearly lock up just now... Interesting...

YourFuneral
 
Originally posted by metalmancpa
And I do agree that similar people will fight more. Since they would tend to agree on more things - any slight variations in beliefs would become amplified, thus, insignificant things become very important in that sort of a relationship.
Click to expand...

Definitely, as well said.

Satori
 
La dee dee... text, text, text...

THE BEST OPETH FORUM BATTLE WOULD BE:

EVIL vs. Xtokalon

They have both battled Satori in mighty philosophical conflicts and record no losses between them (and no wins, either, so rarely an actual conclusion to a philosophical debate). Both are strong, logical thinkers and highly well-spoken. Both seem to be rather well eduacted. I think if we threw them at opposite sides of some debate topic, it would be a mighty battle of wits.

Lina: Yeah, "Melinda" is a no-brainer... but if it's a baby boy? Do we go straight for "Mikael", or something less obvious?

MMCPA: Hoser vs. Satori - methinks I'd get killed. My debating skills are pretty sharp against those with strong viewpoints opposite my own, but although I have learned much from Satori over the course of a thousand some-odd posts, he is still the master (much humbled bowing). Although, perhaps I've learned enough about his debating style as well to gain an upper hand, given the right context. Hmmm... I think I'd have to be the underdog, though, either way.

I'd also like to see Duvall vs. TyrantOfFlames... I think that could be interesting.
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
Wich brings me to trying. Why do you bother about your kid? ultimately you will die and he will die and that is final, forget fairy tales about heaven or reencarnation, you will be just vermin food.
Click to expand...
This is what it all comes down to, doesn't it? I think the answer is pleasure vs pain.
She enjoys time with her son, and she wants him to be successful. If her son turns out to be some kind of mental fuckwit, it will probably cause her no small degree of anguish... not to mention hurt pride. In a way, our children represent the height of human creation. This is how we test ourselves- this little ball of molecules we bring into the world.
While all paths might lead to the same place, I think it can be argued that some will be more desirable. This is why we try.
 
Originally posted by luke
While all paths might lead to the same place, I think it can be argued that some will be more desirable.
Click to expand...
Precisely what I was planning on responding to Misanthrope with. Nice.
 
You expect the world to pamper you, rather than take up the arms to bear yourself and change what's bad about society and other people, and about yourself.
Click to expand...

I have a mayor mistake, i agree. You come close to it more than anybody else, and for that i deeply respect you. However that is not exaclty true. I expect nothing from the world, and i expect nothing from myself i will not change, and is a personal concious choise, the reason why is because im tired. It almost looks like im just waiting for everyone to change to my ideals, it almost looks like a desperate cry for helps, in some ways there is, is the desperate atempt to show how i feel, however im also very consious about the fact that a change is not posible. This is were we disagree, it is hard to undo millions of years of the human minds reasoning, and while not impossible, it is shurely not tangible within the confines of our current lifespawn. You are one of the very few people that understands what i tried to say, is a complicate feeling to me because of its simplicity: nothing. I sincerely apologize if my line of expression towards the history of my post point to a desire of everyone to change, it was not my intention, i was merely letting out some frustration however it does not means i think everyone should change, imho there is just too much crap in everyone else but if anyone is mistaken or abnormal it is, without a doubt, myself because i am the one who cannot take it anymore.

Human kindness and decency? you put me on a difficult spot because we also disagree. I believe this are directly linked to moral acceptance in society wich ultimately causes a state of mind that brings confort to men because of their feeling of acceptance, it is hard for me to think of them as selfless act, they are still selfish, there is nothing wrong with them and it certainly works for most people, it just doesnt works for me. But Art on the other side, true art can be true expression, can be the ultimate way to release frustration and confort oneself, art is something i really appreciate in the world and probably the last thing human im really fond about. But since i consider myself an artist, it is kinda hard to bring up the comunity feeling, what i do is very very personal and it can be accepted in a society, it is most of the times people likes my music, however i still have a problem because i can hardly make music the center of my social life, eventually i will run out of things to discuss, it is very hard to keep social life going on when this is the only way you can remotely relate to people. Right now im in between, im still having some real contact but it wouldnt surprise me if i end up a hermit anyway, i honestly cannot know if art can be reason enough to keep me here and to keep my tolerance towards society, the equation is too unbalanced but i worry when i cannot take it anymore right now, im confortable as it is.

But remember, i have barely post an opinion here without putting a sentiment on it, and since i put a lot of frustration to it the flaws you see in me are perflectly acceptable, but it is my opinion than my posts are way to personal and release too much frustration to asume the things you asume, you can be shure that your opinions would change if you see me doing an atempt of pure objetivity.
 
While all paths might lead to the same place, I think it can be argued that some will be more desirable. This is why we try.
Click to expand...

Ok, but you need to realize that for people to me there is no paths that are more desirable than others, and that the things you propose ultimately leave the ones like me with a feeling of emptiness since all this pleasurable paths fade away, and it can even be an even harder thing to tolerate, and it can make death even harder to accept wich i thing is the main reason everyone cheats death, the desire to live. While my life might seem more obscure and harder to live, my real peace of minds comes in embracing death, i lived on both sides and i truly dislike the constant fear of death.

This are mere examples of why the paths are equal to me and why i choose one or the other, but i think its pretty clear than to persons like me they are that: equal.
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope

Human kindness and decency? you put me on a difficult spot because we also disagree. I believe this are directly linked to moral acceptance in society wich ultimately causes a state of mind that brings confort to men because of their feeling of acceptance, it is hard for me to think of them as selfless act, they are still selfish, there is nothing wrong with them and it certainly works for most people, it just doesnt works for me.
Click to expand...

You have my complete agreement here.
 
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