Whats the world coming to?

[Sydo]

There are two distinct methods of retaliation.
(If retaliation is on your mind)

1 - Take out parties only directly responsible.

A better short-term solution. However says to other potential terrorist - 'Don't get caught'.

2 - Take out all suspect parties

A better long-term solution. Says to world – ‘Don't come under suspicion’.

Neither is acceptable, but no doubt one will be implemented.

I really fell like a bastard today. I see the pictures and feel sorrow, anger, frustration, vengeful, isolated, fortunate, extremely apprehensive. Lost!
I still think I’ll eventually wake up from a dream. Can this be real? What am I supposed to do? In all honesty, I wish I were in charge.
Napoleon am I.

George W Bush isn't the smartest man in the world, luckily he happens to be his father's son ( ) - a smart and decisive leader if there ever was one.

Maybe things will be clearer tomorrow. I hope the US Govt. waits before acting.

Different topic
Thanks Wrathy.. Yeah I’m an uncle. Even that hasn’t sunk in yet. Driving to the Hospital yesterday morning I couldn’t help but think I was onl;y going to visit my sister. It was until I was in the elevator heading upwards that I realised I’d be meeting a new person – a nephew! Unbelievable feeling.

 

[Cooperman]

My thoughts are with any of you who have family, friends or friends of friends etc... who are caught up in this horrible mess. Hopefully they can pull as many people out of the rubble alive as possible.

 

[Winmar]

There are some fucking evil people in the world. Thankfully we're rather sheltered from them down here, being of no real world significance.

At least your nephew could have been brought into a worse part of the world Sydo.

 

[Wrathchild]

I've been through all those emotions too Sydo- in the space of one morning! This is quite an achievement for a man whose usual reaction to everything is one of cynical bemusement...

The main feeling that bubbles to the surface now is fear. I never thought anything of this magnitude would happen in my lifetime, despite being firmly convinced that the planet's been riding a roller coaster to hell ever since the industrial revolution.

Eliminating all suspect parties is a viable option, but how long before the next band of suicidal fanatics appears?

W

 

[TinMan666]

the scariest thing about human nature is that whoever is responsible for this would be absolutely convinced that they are justified

regardless of religious or political beliefs, actions like this can never be justified.

Unfortunately I can only see the situation worsening and the violence escallating from here.

I dread to think what will be next.

 

[Sydo]

Originally posted by Wrathchild
fear

 

[spawn]

Originally posted by Wrathchild


Eliminating all suspect parties is a viable option, but how long before the next band of suicidal fanatics appears?

W

And will that just incite other extremists to take up the fight after what they see as their religious buddies being "martyred".........leading to more retaliation , leading to more extremists and so on............

 

[Kem]

Well I've calmed down a bit after hearing that people actually CELEBRATED this...I think the worst possible thing Bush could do is retaliate. Today proves that the people who did this have the will and the means of causing destruction on a huge level. And you can bet they got help from somewhere too...

If he does anything, I seriously think we are headed for WW3. Not a nice thought, but I think that's where it will end up. For now, America needs to concentrate on the rescue operations, surveillance etc., before even thinking about pointing the finger or pushing the button.

Damn. I'm scared now. I don't want a world war on our hands.

 

[Sydo]

Originally posted by Kem
Today proves that the people who did this have the will and the means of causing destruction on a huge level.

I hear on the television over and over how well planned this was, and for this reason it was successful (from the terrorist’ point of view). However I believe it was the simplicity of the operation that led to the devastation.

However unlikely, there is nothing to say that all this could have simply been caused by a group of 4, with nothing more than 4 Airline tickets and a small amount of planning.

It seems strange, but sometimes it is easier to prepare a defence for a ‘worst case’ scenario rather than such a basic scheme as this.

The US is ready to tackle ‘any’ terrorist threat – that comes in the form of a terrorist threat. Without using explosives, firearms or military power, a certain group have been able to show the world grave weaknesses within the American defence.

But how can you be ready for something like this?

I find it difficult to believe that a second aircraft was able to hit the towers, and a third hit the Pentagon. Surly after seeing the devastation caused by the first, the intention of the High-jackers was clear to the authorities. Wouldn’t the US Air-Force have been tailing the planes? I’d assume that would have been standard procedure during highjackings.
So why, after the first hit, weren’t the other two stopped? (I’d be fairly certain the forth plane was shot down)

What has happened in America is terrible beyond words. But it’s happened.
I’m sure someone will ‘lose their job’ after all this, but who really cares about that now. It’s happened, move on and make steps to insure it doesn’t happen again.

 

[Jozxyqk]

I've been reading the news reports and basically the reason the second and third planes managed to cause so much damage is because US Officials didn't know the planes were highjacked. A woman from the plane that hit the Pentagon called her husband after the highjacking. He called the Justice Department and they had no idea what he was talking about. The attackers aparently turned of the transponders in the planes not long after taking over the planes and kept dropping below radar which means they couldn't be effectively traced. Its unfortunate but the attackers really had this planned well.

 

[Sydo]

Originally posted by Jozxyqk
I've been reading the news reports and basically the reason the second and third planes managed to cause so much damage is because they didn't know they were highjacked.

The planes were flying completely of course and were out of radio contact the entire time.

The plane that hit the Pentagon hit an hour later. The people in that building would have clearly know that it was coming straight for them... and easily have been able to assume it's intentions.
Yet, we're being told it was a surprise.

2 planes fly directly into the WTC, and another was heading straight towards the Penagon.

They knew.

There is a lot we are not being told.

 

[spawn]

I dont know either way.........it seems suss to think that they couldnt figure out what was going on with the pentagon plane, the 2 WTC planes couldnt have been stopped, but the pentagon one, they at least had a little warning........its all very strange, maybe they just couldnt get the information to the right people, it must have been CHAOS all morning

Kemmy: I agree with you, it wasnt brilliantly complex, it was so SIMPLE. Thats why it worked.

America couldnt stop the threat because they figured any terrorist threat on that scale would be able to be stopped by their military might......noone thought something like this could happen.

You know, most americans (87%) think there will be more terrorist attacks. I hope they are wrong, that would mean there WOULD be a war, no doubt.

 

[phlogiston]

Except for the scale of things, what makes this any more evil or dispicable that anything else that's been happening in the middle east for decades? Even the UK's had IRA car bombs for years.

Why are people jacking up about this now? Just 'cos some Americans got killed? Fuck. Terrorism's nothing new.

Where's the massive outpouring of grief for the people killed in the bomb attacks in Afganistan this morning? The head of the opposition to the Taliban was killed in a car bomb a few days ago. No threads dedicated to him anywhere. Just 'cause the witnesses don't need interpreters and you can read the words on peoples jackets doesn't make it any different.

When the people who did this are caught and killed (and don't doubt for a second they won't be. If not the actually people at least people to blame) the western world's going to be celebrating. They may not be out in the street waving guns and flags and stuff, but there'll be celebration just the same.

The people celebrating the attack have been living in a war zone for years, for some of them attacks killing their people and loved ones are a regular occurence. They've got a different attitude towards death than the west. They're used to seeing kids and mums and dads and friends and neighbours in tiny pieces. They see America as the enemy. If the enemy takes a battering, you celebrate. That how war works. Sure they may not actually be at war with the US, but many of them are with Israel, and the US is seen as a prime backer of them.

 

[spawn]

While I can see your point Phloggy, the people in the countries you mentioned are at war with EACH OTHER. They are killing their own. Not saying thats right of course, just that the tensions over there and their way of life are COMPLETELY different to the "western" cultures.
Most of those countries (afghanistan, iraq, israel etc.) have been involved in fighting and killing for HUNDREDS of years. They will NOT stop, no matter what, their religious beliefs are just too deeply involved. I dont wish to stereotype anyone, but facts are facts......

I dont think what im trying to say is coming across properly here, I dont mean to say one innocent persons life is worth more than anothers. Just trying to say (somewhat badly ill concede) that i think the situation for the respective countries is VERY different.

 

[Goreripper]

Let's address Sydo's claim "They Knew... There's a lot we aren;t being told."

This appears to assume that there was some kind of COVER UP involved. Are you suggesting somebody within the US administration ALLOWED this to happen? Deliberately crash a commercial airliner into it's own headquarters? The plane took off from Dulles in Washington DC and basically backflipped into the Pentagon -- in Washington DC! Even if a squad of planes had been scrambled to shoot it down, they couldn't have made it in time. As for the first two planes... the FAA knew A plane had been hijacked, but didn't realise until after the second plane hit that the first plane was the one which had been hijacked.

Secondly, Phloggy, your post has some merit. In the West, we do tend to dwell on the events which effect us directly. However, the attacks you mentioned have and are taking place in countries which are in a state of war. The US was not at war, and certainly the 250 people in those planes weren't soldiers. The 10000 people sitting at their workstations or standing around the coffee machine weren't at war. If this had happened anywhere it would have been just as much a tragedy; the prepetrators of this unconsciencable action have not only struck at America, they have sown the seed of hate and fear into every peace loving nation on the planet. This isn't just a cime against the US, it's a crime against humanity.

 

[Sydo]

Goreripper I could be completely wrong.

I don't know what to think right now

 

[Goreripper]

Let's address Sydo's claim "They Knew... There's a lot we aren;t being told."

This appears to assume that there was some kind of COVER UP involved. Are you suggesting somebody within the US administration ALLOWED this to happen? Deliberately crash a commercial airliner into it's own headquarters? The plane took off from Dulles in Washington DC and basically backflipped into the Pentagon -- in Washington DC! Even if a squad of planes had been scrambled to shoot it down, they couldn't have made it in time. As for the first two planes... the FAA knew A plane had been hijacked, but didn't realise until after the second plane hit that the first plane was the one which had been hijacked.

Secondly, Phloggy, your post has some merit. In the West, we do tend to dwell on the events which effect us directly. However, the attacks you mentioned have and are taking place in countries which are in a state of war. The US was not at war, and certainly the 250 people in those planes weren't soldiers. The 10000 people sitting at their workstations or standing around the coffee machine weren't at war. If this had happened anywhere it would have been just as much a tragedy; the prepetrators of this unconsciencable action have not only struck at America, they have sown the seed of hate and fear into every peace loving nation on the planet. This isn't just a cime against the US, it's a crime against humanity.

 

[phlogiston]

The people who get killed in IRA carbombings aren't at war. The opposition leader in Afganistan wasn't at war with the people who killed him.

And don't think that the US is squeaky clean in the Middle East either.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this isn't a tragedy and all that.

 

[Invisible Boy]

I just listened to Consequences off Something Wicked, it seems an appropriate song at the moment.

I was thinking the worst e.g. WW3 but when you think about it Bush is unlikely to start a World War on purpose as it effect way too many people. Well thats what I think anyway

 

[Bucko]

I went to work today with so much disbelief of what happened today and struggled to keep my focus. I rang my wife around 8.45 to say i love her she told me that my eldest son Zac had asked her would this mean we"ll have a third world war. All I could tell him I hope not son.

I cannot still come to grips with this . People I work with in Canberra have spouses who work with Defence in Canberra they have been affected. Another Guy Martin, he has a mate who works at the World Trade Buildings he dos'nt know if he survived .

As somebody said Earlier " The Worlds Fucked" .