who was a bigger influence?

who was a bigger influence to black metal?

  • bathory

    Votes: 43 58.9%

  • venom

    Votes: 17 23.3%

  • mercyfull fate

    Votes: 7 9.6%

  • celtic frost

    Votes: 4 5.5%

  • hellhammer

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • Total voters
    73
Necuratul said:
If you think that Bathory - Born For Burning is Black Metal and Venom - Don't Burn The Witch is not, then you are delusional. Of course Venom is Black Metal.
Click to expand...

I didn't make any claims about Bathory's status as a black metal band, so quit looking for some excuse to call me "delusional" or my logic "flawed". I think I've made a pretty good case that retrospective genre-labeling is not revisionist history, and that genre labels are more useful if they're used to describe the actual style of music as opposed to the historical context of the music.

The early '80s bands who pioneered the black metal style were more experimenting than anything else. It's easy to label later bands as black metal because they're not developing the genre anymore. Just because the genre was developed by X band with Satanic lyrics, Y band with rapid, monotonous guitar playing, and Z band with shitty production, doesn't mean each of those bands should be given a label which imples X, Y, and Z all together.
 
Necuratul said:
I don't give a fuck about "today's commonly-accepted notion of black metal." Venom was Black Metal in 1982. Their music didn't change. Now in 2007 some guy on a message board is telling me that what Venom did in 1982 wasn't Black Metal because it doesn't sound exactly like Burzum. I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed, and what is called revisionist history. Venom, Sodom, Bulldozer, Mercyful Fate, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Mercyful Fate, Sarcofago, Root, Tormentor, Vulcano, and Bathory were and are all Black Metal.
Click to expand...

Sodom is BM? :erk:
 
Unfaithfully Metalhead said:
childrengrinder) 4º)the fact of i'm in brazil doesn't change the fact of Sarcófago is a big influence to black metal bands... this is my opinion and i believe i'm right... I'm not the defender of the brazilian metal said:
'Blind'[/I]

QUOTE]

Then why "Proud Brazilian Metal" in your signature? .. with bands listed/shown? .. :erk:
Click to expand...

i'm from brazil, and it's the same if i put on a brazilian flag...
Click to expand...
 
I'm not even discussing this genre debate anymore with people who can't understand the difference between the 80s and today and why the early 80s bands played Black Metal. And now to insinuate that Bathory wasn't Black Metal? I don't understand what's so hard to digest about these bands being Black Metal when they were classed as Black Metal in the 80s and early 90s. Their music didn't change, the bands that came after them did. They changed the formula that they established, and it's continually changing. Nevermore plays Heavy Metal, but I don't hear Sad Wings Of Destiny in there. Nevermore is far more aggressive. So I guess that must make them a Heavy Rock band instead.
 
vihris-gari said:
I didn't make any claims about Bathory's status as a black metal band, so quit looking for some excuse to call me "delusional" or my logic "flawed". I think I've made a pretty good case that retrospective genre-labeling is not revisionist history, and that genre labels are more useful if they're used to describe the actual style of music as opposed to the historical context of the music.

The early '80s bands who pioneered the black metal style were more experimenting than anything else. It's easy to label later bands as black metal because they're not developing the genre anymore. Just because the genre was developed by X band with Satanic lyrics, Y band with rapid, monotonous guitar playing, and Z band with shitty production, doesn't mean each of those bands should be given a label which imples X, Y, and Z all together.
Click to expand...

All genre's have to start somewhere and with a certain band... and BM started with Venom even if the present day sound of BM does not sound in any way like Venom... all music evolves and eventually stops sounding less and less like the genre's originators... So just because Venom was called part of NWOBHM at the time does not mean they were not BM.. BM was a new term for a new genre that surprise surprise Venom started... They got the ball rolling and other bands took it to the next level and on and on... just like Sabbath in 1968... first metal band imo and it was a new term or non existent at the time but they got labeled that for a new genre and bands after that took metal further but that didn't make them any less metal when further bands did not sound like them...
 
Necuratul said:
I'm not even discussing this genre debate anymore with people who can't understand the difference between the 80s and today and why the early 80s bands played Black Metal. And now to insinuate that Bathory wasn't Black Metal? I don't understand what's so hard to digest about these bands being Black Metal when they were classed as Black Metal in the 80s and early 90s. Their music didn't change, the bands that came after them did. They changed the formula that they established, and it's continually changing. Nevermore plays Heavy Metal, but I don't hear Sad Wings Of Destiny in there. Nevermore is far more aggressive. So I guess that must make them a Heavy Rock band instead.
Click to expand...

Oh, okay. It would really help if you actually gave me a definition of black metal instead of just pointing to a band and saying, "There - that's black metal! End of argument." But something tells me you're just going to play the elitist and tell me I'm a moron if I don't know the difference. In which case, yeah, there is no point in this debate, because all you're doing is getting frustrated with people whose views differ from yours. :)
 
Slayer at that moment was called black metal too

so, where is his name on the poll? i can't see it

Venom isn't a pure black metal band, it's fact

Venom is MötorHead from hell

or is motörhead black metal too??

give me a break
 
childrengrinder said:
Unfaithfully Metalhead said:
guy, it's just a signature

if you was from poland, you would put in your signature bands like Riverside or Vader, don't you?
Click to expand...

well im from U.S. and/or NY and not that i have any bands in my signature but I wouldn't put all bands from U.S. or NY if i did... I would put my favorite bands regardless of country or region... but thats just me... i merely quoted you because you said you didn't even consider brazilian bands your favorite when you posted earlier...
Click to expand...
 
Yes, early Slayer can also be classified as Black Metal, in the way that the term was originally meant to be understood. Chiefly the Show No Mercy and Haunting The Chapel, and to a lesser extent, Hell Awaits albums. Slayer's another band that was hugely influential to Black Metal...and people don't even realize.
 
Oh, I see. Damn, I remember I had a discussion about Slayer being a black metal band with Carcassian, and he said that they definitely were thrash. Well, I thought that they were thrash too, until now...
 
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