theres a difference between being subjective on who or why someone might pick either Hendrix or Vaughan above the other and the total bologna you were pulling out of our hat against Vaughan. We are talking about my two favorite guitar players here but suddenly all these primitive names pop up and are used to demote those that took the whole thing to a higher level. Vaughan brought the blues to the forefront in the 80's because he was awesome not because he sterilized it. He broke his ass for years to get there too but he did it on skill, raw power and emotion. The time was also right due to the maturity of the age group that grew up with ZZ Top, LZ, Hendrix, Clapton and other early 70's blues based hard rock bands that gave us the taste for the blues 10 years prior.
Who was better: Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix?
- Thread starter The Ozzman
- Start date
Just admit your a fanboy of SRV and let it go at that... Vaughn was great no doubt but he was no innovator... all he really did was be more technical then his heroes... SRV was like the Yngwie Malsteen of blues... rehash old blues riffs & be more technical but thats about it... you can't be subjectively unbiased and it shows... I'm a big SRV and Hendrix fan but i can clearly say which one had a more impact & originality then the other...
There is a old saying: Your entitled to your opinion, but your not entitled to your own facts.
SRV: instilled Chicago-style blues into rock, was just as good at 12 bar blues as he was at intricate jazz-influenced numbers, (that Chicago influence).
Jimi: Versatile at Delta-style blues, but was adroit at fusing jazz-style improvisation and comping into the mix.
Both may have been bluesmen, but from their gear (Jimi, a Marshall man, and SRV primarily known for his Bassman and Tubescreamer), to their technique; they weren't actually all that much alike. SRV took a couple of Hendrix songs and made them his own, yet still paid tribute to the originator. To speculate as to who is "better" is like asking who, of Jessica Biel or Jessica Alba, is better looking. Both women are knock-outs, and both guitarists are untouchable.
Jimi: Versatile at Delta-style blues, but was adroit at fusing jazz-style improvisation and comping into the mix.
Both may have been bluesmen, but from their gear (Jimi, a Marshall man, and SRV primarily known for his Bassman and Tubescreamer), to their technique; they weren't actually all that much alike. SRV took a couple of Hendrix songs and made them his own, yet still paid tribute to the originator. To speculate as to who is "better" is like asking who, of Jessica Biel or Jessica Alba, is better looking. Both women are knock-outs, and both guitarists are untouchable.
Best post on this thread and the wisest imo... but for me Hendrix still for innovation & originality...
Yes a good post, however SRV had that Texas boogie blues thing going on. Do you have Hendrix's blues CD ? A good listen to that will show where SRV expanded on Hendrix licks and technique.
"fanboy" ? fuck you ! Yes, Im a fan, why shouldnt I be ? Grew up on a diet of Hendrix, Trower, Marino, Page blues, BB King, Cream, Clapton, Gibbons, Bishop, southern rock, early Chicago... loved Cray, Shepherd, Bonamassa and do consider old primitive blues into the FACTS.
You want to ride the not creative train, try responding to this post, else wise you offered nothing.
Yes, he expanded on it but really nothing new.
My, my did i hit a nerve lol I must be right then and that because of it you can't be unbiased on this topic... And I didn't say SRV wasn't creative, I said he was not a innovator... btw fuck you back
Yes, he expanded on it but really nothing new.
My, my did i hit a nerve lol I must be right then and that because of it you can't be unbiased on this topic... And I didn't say SRV wasn't creative, I said he was not a innovator... btw fuck you back
Vaughans improvisational ability was very new, he had the ability to go off and just flow through a long series of licks that would not be disjointed or sound like lick stacking. His ability to tease and squeeze notes from a guitar and build into a roar, not the first to aplly it but I've even yet to hear it done better. I can think of no prior examples to his method of doing rhythms where the chords sounded like the were bouncing off the guitar, I cant think of a good way to describe it but anyone with ears should know what Im talking about... like Cold Shot and the intro riffs for CStW. I have to say his total technique, skill level and manor in which he oozed his heart and soul out of the guitar was unheard of prior to his arrival. Hendrix being the only one close, but you can listen to Hendrix and hear him run out of ideas.
Anybody that throws that "fanboy" BS out annoys me. Whether its directed at me or someone else. Its a way of throwing out a distraction and blanket statement to disolve credibility, even when in this case I have put much effort into evaluating both Vaughan and Hendrix, and gave the old timers equal effort as they applied, something you have not. (not that I dont like the old bluesmen, but SRV just excelled far beyond, Hendrix already left them in the dust 15 years prior and yes he was shuned by them.)
I have no reason to appear unbiased to your biased ears, even though I did go through much effort of discription, eval, different players, and mentioned various other blues listening influences. Its simple, nobody ever heard anything to the level of SRV prior. The bias comes from those that try to deny it. Rather that speal crap and show or state nothing. Go to youtube and grab some "old time" blues players stuff and show me some... any... intensity or techniques that come close, even if its just sound clips. Or at least respond to the question ya'lls still ignoring. Point me toward some song I need to hear where I can find one of the "traditional" blues players layin' it down anything close to SVR. Until you can show me all these things, you are the ones exhibiting the bias.
Einherjar86
Active Member
You could perhaps argue that he raised the bar in a technical sense. But as far as innovating the whole blues improvisation thing, that had been around for decades before Vaughan emerged. I'm sorry, but I just don't think SRV created anything new. Jimi Hendrix was an epoch in the history of music.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I don't think SRV took blues improvisation to a higher level. His style is more intense and aggressive than older blues musicians, but that doesn't make it aesthetically better. He may have improved technically; but technicality isn't a necessity for blues players. Look, this thread was about who we like better. I stated why I liked Hendrix better, and then was met with an insult from you (must be someone who's only heard two songs of SRV on the radio-or something of the sort).
I could point to dozens of songs that I think are better than the ones you listed, but you'll only disagree. So you like that clean, polished, aggressive build that SRV embodied. For strict blues music, I don't like that. I like the old, dirty, imperfect cracking blues of the Kings, Hooker, Howlin' Wolf, and the like. To my ears, their playing is far more soulful and heartbreaking.
You can hear Vaughan run out of ideas too. That's why he lifts licks from older players. That's all he does, but applies more speed and technicality to them. Vaughan had loads of skill, but he was no originator. He was an imitator.
But they didn't shun Vaughan, as you said earlier. He and King played together live.
Nothing we can show you will convince you, because you like Vaughan's playing. All I'm saying is that all his licks, his style, he took from older players and just refined and honed his technical skills. The old blues players didn't need to play fast or aggressively. You, for some reason, can't accept that. Find me another "I'll Play the Blues For You," or another "Born Under a Bad Sign." Find me another "Smokestack Lightning" or "Moanin' At Midnight." Find me another "Hoochie Coochie Man" or "Mannish Boy." That's blues, boy.
Robert Johnson begat both SRV and Jimi, as he begat Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, The three Kings, et al. Why get into a pissing match as to who is more original? (No dig at anyone in particular, just a general statement.)
Both guitarists had their strengths and weaknesses. You could write a dissertation on where each distilled their sounds, down to licks and riffs "lifted" from previous guitarists and the evolution (or lack thereof). I don't think that it matters too much WHAT licks are used, but it maybe it should be noted HOW they used those licks in context of the songs and how they presented them. Both were fiery, impassioned players with an incomparable technique and confidence on stage. To be able to hear their music is a treat, to learn from them (and, in so doing, devling into what lead them to their way of playing) can only enrich a guitarist. Even if you aren't a guitarist, or a musician for that matter, both wrote excellent songs, worthy of listening to now as they were when they were first written.
This board sure likes to argue the fine points, huh?
Both guitarists had their strengths and weaknesses. You could write a dissertation on where each distilled their sounds, down to licks and riffs "lifted" from previous guitarists and the evolution (or lack thereof). I don't think that it matters too much WHAT licks are used, but it maybe it should be noted HOW they used those licks in context of the songs and how they presented them. Both were fiery, impassioned players with an incomparable technique and confidence on stage. To be able to hear their music is a treat, to learn from them (and, in so doing, devling into what lead them to their way of playing) can only enrich a guitarist. Even if you aren't a guitarist, or a musician for that matter, both wrote excellent songs, worthy of listening to now as they were when they were first written.
This board sure likes to argue the fine points, huh?
Im "argueing" because Vaughan was insulted, as he was just again. "pop blues"... "steals licks" "imitator", the biggest joke of all, yeah, its always challenging trying to determine if your really listening to Vaughan or someone else... yarite ! Its the fucking blues for Christs sake, I nor anyone else ever said Vaughan created the blues. He iced it, damn near gave it no more room for a better idea. He also has his own sound, style, there is no mistaken Vaughan. Some are trying to make it sound like Vaughan "just" refined the blues, but then not really cause it was "pop blues", yet "imitated", I say he simply played the blues and had more natural talent than anyone prior and had an intense sense of feel and raw emotion. Im not just talking about his amazing ability to smoke for a minute + non stop, yes it is uncanny but his entire guitar package was a phenom. Riffs, rhythms, combined with vocals, voicing control of guitar expression. When it comes to these all these things Hendrix and Vaughan were in a whole nother league from the earlier crowd. Raw, "hey everyone... news flash, Stevie Ray Vaughan was not ... raw... and dont forget... its not soulful or hearbreaking... all stolen and popified"... fuck that... Vaughan broke everyones heart, before the end, then especially in the end. A equally devastating lost as Hendrix or Chris Oliva and no not just to me or all other "fan boys".
yeah, Vaughan admired and learned from King, Hendrix and previous bluesman but that arrogant prick King just said, "I could tell he had been listening, and something along the lines of he was doing alright" when in fact he should have been man enough to humble himself and give Vaughan his due credit of blowing the entire thing out of the water. Those old arrogant pricks did shun Hendrix as well, a large part of why I have lack of due respect. They were simply jelous and were not being "brothers" at all.
You say you wont give me any evidence because "nothing will change my mind" I say you have no cards left in your deck. Im always open to awesomeness and Im always one to appreaciate the origionals for that merit alone, but I sure as hell wont take from those that iced the package. I have no doubt in my mind that Vaughans name will stand the test of time when people think of who played the fucking blues. The old names will be side notes, little footnotes for a few songs and a few lick expressions here and there, but Stevie Ray Vaughan and Hendrix will always stand apart... and I guess some people can not deal with that.
The "old blues" has its merits... just a tad more than Buck Owens has merits in country. Old blues is good, but primitive and elementary as all hell. I love playing that breaths, thats why I like BB King and Cray, Nora Jones and Willie Nelson so much, still doesnt change the fact that BB compared to Vaughan is like comparing Eddie or Yngwie to Page. Just not the same league at all. All have their merits and accomplishments but none are there for the sake of denoteing the other... unless you want to play that game, then Im GAME !
yeah, Vaughan admired and learned from King, Hendrix and previous bluesman but that arrogant prick King just said, "I could tell he had been listening, and something along the lines of he was doing alright" when in fact he should have been man enough to humble himself and give Vaughan his due credit of blowing the entire thing out of the water. Those old arrogant pricks did shun Hendrix as well, a large part of why I have lack of due respect. They were simply jelous and were not being "brothers" at all.
You say you wont give me any evidence because "nothing will change my mind" I say you have no cards left in your deck. Im always open to awesomeness and Im always one to appreaciate the origionals for that merit alone, but I sure as hell wont take from those that iced the package. I have no doubt in my mind that Vaughans name will stand the test of time when people think of who played the fucking blues. The old names will be side notes, little footnotes for a few songs and a few lick expressions here and there, but Stevie Ray Vaughan and Hendrix will always stand apart... and I guess some people can not deal with that.
The "old blues" has its merits... just a tad more than Buck Owens has merits in country. Old blues is good, but primitive and elementary as all hell. I love playing that breaths, thats why I like BB King and Cray, Nora Jones and Willie Nelson so much, still doesnt change the fact that BB compared to Vaughan is like comparing Eddie or Yngwie to Page. Just not the same league at all. All have their merits and accomplishments but none are there for the sake of denoteing the other... unless you want to play that game, then Im GAME !
Einherjar86
Active Member
mdmatt4ever
Member
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You take that back, you son of a gun!
Everyone knows Mick Mars would smoke ALL them fools.
are you serious ? Im a Beck fan myself and realize his merits as well, but Im not sure I'd place him above. Hmm ? Thats seems to be a bit of a stumper. A serious weighing of merits to consider on that one.
mdmatt4ever
Member
- Sep 27, 2006
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