Why even mic a kick drum?
- Thread starter doclegion
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Moonlight_Seeker
Member
Well maybe I am not thinking straight right now... but how can you replace a kick that has not been miced? 
dontletmedrown
Producer/Composer
- Jul 8, 2006
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Even though I usually do a complete replacement on kick drum, I always try my hardest to get the best sounds I can. I'd like to be able to record sounds like Steven Slate someday and I figure the only way to get there is to practice, practice, practice. I can get useable snare sounds, but my kicks can't compete with Slate's.
Still I keep trying...
Still I keep trying...
Sean in Silence
Member
fatalforce
Member
I use the miked kick to identify false triggers and maybe to blend with the samples. I always like to keep the mindset of optimizing my options in the studio so I always mic the kick.
pretty much the same thing as i do...i always have a mic just in case the trigger misfires on 16 or 32nd note
i can always replace a kick track just as easy as a trigger anymore...
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
If you sample replace all the time you can just use an electronic kick pad. That way you get MIDI info, no mis-triggers and velocity information too. Much better than replacing audio. I've actually been considering grabbing an electronic kit for EP/Demo recordings here at my place... but it's the lack of space that always kills.
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
If you've positioned your mics right, used the right mics, tuned the kick right, using the right beaters, have got a decent player etc............ then you should at least try blending, i'm doing it now for my bands ep. I'm only really using samples for the added low end punch and to get a more consistent volume, and this is for technical blackened death metal
88mph
manbearpig
- Sep 26, 2008
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Well maybe I am not thinking straight right now... but how can you replace a kick that has not been miced?
Hahahah touché
A kick pad is just a trigger with part of the Drumagog process built in. It's no more accurate than Drumagog and still gives you false positives (or worse, missed triggers), with the added problem that you don't have the source data to change the settings and try again. Trigger audio tracks have velocity data, too; the volume of the triggers is the velocity.
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
You can sample replace from the mic signal too. You don't need triggers nessecarily
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Good thread.
Could maybe throw this in here: How do avoid basket ball ping sounds in bass drum? ¯\()/¯
My dilemma is that, if I want good attack, I have to stick the mic inside the bass drum, close to where I hit the drum, pointing towards the center of the head etc. Sure, I get good attack but I also get horrible reflections inside the bass drum that just sounds like a basket ball bouncing. If I put the mic right at the hole in the front head, I get good amounts of bass and no basket ball ping pong sounds, but it just sounds... not cool.
And as convenient human nature is, we run when things are a pain to handle, and that is why, ladies and gentlemen, I also sample replace the fucking kick drum Or well, most of the time I low pass the original kick drum and just keep it for the body, while the trigger takes care of the highs (but also the lows, to help tighten it up). Haha, I'm glad I'm not a professional, because I really want to learn the secrets of micing a bass drum and getting a good... final-production-usable sound out of it.
I use a fluffy pillow, not too big, at the bottom of my bass drum. I have also covered most of the wood inside the bass drum with a semi-fluffy textile that is about 1 cm thick, in hopes of sucking up some of the ping pong reflections but it's still there...
Could maybe throw this in here: How do avoid basket ball ping sounds in bass drum? ¯\(
)/¯My dilemma is that, if I want good attack, I have to stick the mic inside the bass drum, close to where I hit the drum, pointing towards the center of the head etc. Sure, I get good attack but I also get horrible reflections inside the bass drum that just sounds like a basket ball bouncing. If I put the mic right at the hole in the front head, I get good amounts of bass and no basket ball ping pong sounds, but it just sounds... not cool.
And as convenient human nature is, we run when things are a pain to handle, and that is why, ladies and gentlemen, I also sample replace the fucking kick drum
Or well, most of the time I low pass the original kick drum and just keep it for the body, while the trigger takes care of the highs (but also the lows, to help tighten it up). Haha, I'm glad I'm not a professional, because I really want to learn the secrets of micing a bass drum and getting a good... final-production-usable sound out of it.I use a fluffy pillow, not too big, at the bottom of my bass drum. I have also covered most of the wood inside the bass drum with a semi-fluffy textile that is about 1 cm thick, in hopes of sucking up some of the ping pong reflections but it's still there...
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Oh about that..... *ashamed*
I'm certainly not using something that is of any standard. The mic is of the brand JJLabs which is a swedish brand that sort of make low price products that tries to compete with the higher priced ones.
Well that's basically the whole package I'm using. You can LISTEN HERE to a song I made where I used that mic package, and I think the drum sound turned out alright for a package that barely costs 200$. However, The kick is heavily blended, almost replaced, and the rest of the kit is just blended. The samples I blended with are from my own kit though, and from using those mics so it's still the barely 200$ mic package which the sound comes from.
And HERE is the best recorded sample I have made up to this day with that mic. The sound is natural, no processing, but as you can hear... it lacks a lot of highs, even though I strapped a coin on the head as a desperate attempt to get some more highs into the mic to avoid using EQ. Guess it's safe to say the mic is bad at capturing highs, but it certainly can capture those damn basket ball ping pong sounds :|
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
Could maybe throw this in here: How do avoid basket ball ping sounds in bass drum? ¯(
The reason why the kick sounds like a beachball/basketball is the material. Use non-plastic skins and you won't get that sound. Those animalskins aren't such a good choise either because a) they aren't cheap b) they aren't as durable c) they're pretty immoral (because they were from live animals) d) they don't sound that good either, so no wonder why they aren't used that much anymore.
But honestly: does the basketball sound pierce thru the mix? If it doesn't, leave it be. Otherwise cut it out.
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Oh, you might be right, I have never tried anything other than plastic skins because that's what the standard is. I don't usually see anything else than the normal Remo or Evans plastic skins in every music store I visit.
Well, I don't like that mindset of just leaving it there if it doesn't pierce the mix because I know it can get much better, right from start. I have heard samples some of you guys have posted here from kick drums with no processing and they just sound awesomely fat and with a nice smack to it, and still no annoying basketball sounds. Clearly there is something I'm missing if others can get rid of that sound but I can't
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
I would have to say that the mic and placement has a lot to do with it, compare: same kick, same take, different mics
http://www.ahjteam.com/upload/2008/kicktest.mp3
edit: so I guess its just case of "get some good gear and go practice, practice, practice and some more practice". You can even play the drums yourself just to see where the good frequencies are. Also have you considered combining two mics, say SM57 at the beater and the kickmic at the hole?
http://www.ahjteam.com/upload/2008/kicktest.mp3
edit: so I guess its just case of "get some good gear and go practice, practice, practice and some more practice". You can even play the drums yourself just to see where the good frequencies are. Also have you considered combining two mics, say SM57 at the beater and the kickmic at the hole?
Is the pillow touching both skins? It should be damping the skins slightly, which will stop a lot of the decay of the sound (and therefore most of the weird reverbs and things you get). Think of it like palm-muting guitar strings.
The other option if you're recording close to the batter head is to just remove the front skin all together. That way there's less for the sound to reflect off. I was really sceptical about it until the last time I went to a studio, and the sound the engineer got was fantastic - first time I've not used any replacement on a kick.
Steve
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
how tight do you have the heads also? I'm always tending to slacken the heads off as much as possible and aiming just inside the sound hole not right by the beater.
