Why is Iconclast getting slagged so badly on the SX forum?

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I just don't get it. It is an amazing album! Anthemic choruses and tons of melody. I can't stop listening to it, yet their own fans on their own forum for the most part are hugely down on it. i'm not even a progressive music fan and I LOVE Iconoclast! Progressive means to evolve. Doesn't it? If SX stayed the same course, there would be bitching. Now, they are evolving and there's bitching. I just can't comprehend this. Is this what is called being a "progsnob"?

 

[AngraRULES]

I don't know... Let's just say a lot of the regulars in that forum need to get out of their own little progworld? I also had a hard time with that album at first, but a few months later it clicked hard!!

However, compared to the previous SX albums, it's not as melodic as you make it to be.

 

[Bear]

Hmm maybe that why I dont visit that place much. That album fookin owns!!!! Best album for them since V imo

Bear

 

[Qrusher14242]

hmm maybe because its not as good as their older stuff? I liked it, but it got old after a while. Like AngraRULES said, its not nearly as melodic as before and the piano is basically gone. The last 2 albums they seemed to have dropped the 'Symphony' part of the band. Russell's voice is not as melodic as it used to be.

If thats what they want to play and it sells, so be it i guess. But they are a different band since Paradise Lost.

 

[zedowns]

I like the album, but really outside of Iconoclast and When All is Lost its just not that good. The second half in particular is just boring stuff.

 

[The Invisible Guest]

Oh well ... can't please everyone. Personally I am pleased, Iconclast is basically everything I want from Symphony X at this stage of the game. I think there is a lot there for both fans new and old.

So many people seem to be pining for another V, but in my opinion that disc has kind of become the oddball in their catalog. Great disc for sure, but I am totally content with where they are at now after the release of Iconoclast.


Britt

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I think the album is very melodic. Of course I listen To CANNIBAL CORPSE, SUFFOCATION, and other death and black metal bands, too. So, I guess melody to me is relative. I'm also not unfamiliar with SX. I found V to be absolutely boring and punchless. I don't hate it per se, but it's at the bottom of the discography for me along with the S/T. V is to SX what Turbo is to JUDAS PRIEST to me. A lot of people love V and hate Turbo. I love Turbo, but V leaves me cold. I love the "angry" Russ as he's been called. His voice reminds me a lot of DIO now. I love and miss Ronnie James very much. The speed and anthemic choruses coupled with the shredding solos has me loving SX for the first time. I hope, IMHO that their Progpower setlist is similar to the tour with IE. Just my opinion. I'm not looking for trouble. But, I still don't get this "progressive" thing and the hypocrisy it causes.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

As an old time SX fan, the few times I spent on there as a lurker (posted only a few times) I got the impression that most of those dudes are pretentious guitar dorks that think music starts and ends with long neo classical solos and overly fruity melodies. They pretend to think they are "progressive" but probably hate on Frank Zappa and King Crimson, and hate on all metal that doesn't revolve around pointless musical circle jerking. Yawn.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

As an old time SX fan, the few times I spent on there as a lurker (posted only a few times) I got the impression that most of those dudes are pretentious guitar dorks that think music starts and ends with long neo classical solos and overly fruity melodies. They pretend to think they are "progressive" but probably hate on Frank Zappa and King Crimson, and hate on all metal that doesn't revolve around pointless musical circle jerking. Yawn.

You and I have disagreed on some stuff in the past, but this time you hit the nail square on the head, IMO.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I just went on there and someone was saying how Russ' singing on this album and in Adrenaline Mob is like nails on a chalkboard to him/her. Someone replies that he must really hate death metal and the dude answers with:

"You're right, I can't stand death metal. SX never used to even be mentioned in the same breath as something as juvenile."

I rest my case. Clearly an IMN stuck in his own bubble of listening to bands singing about dragons and knights - clearly mature and sophisticated and totally not juvenile.

 

[labrekk]

I like the album, but really outside of Iconoclast and When All is Lost its just not that good. The second half in particular is just boring stuff.

I just came back from the Iced Earth / Symphony X show in my town. And to hear "When All Is Lost" live was just killer. Killer song (I'd also wish there would be more in that style on Iconoclast even though the album grew on me and I now like it a lot) and Russell just nailed it.

BTW, both bands were excellent. Stu Block does a grest job, he has some really powerful pipes and he's really full of energy on the stage. Iced Earth had a better sound than Sym X IMO, even though the bass drums were way too loud. Symphony X ruled too, but I can't understand why Michael Romeo doesn't have a more "balanced" and cleaner sound live. At almost each SymX show I attended, I felt that the guitar sound could have been better. But that's maybe just me...

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I just went on there and someone was saying how Russ' singing on this album and in Adrenaline Mob is like nails on a chalkboard to him/her. Someone replies that he must really hate death metal and the dude answers with:

"You're right, I can't stand death metal. SX never used to even be mentioned in the same breath as something as juvenile."

I rest my case. Clearly an IMN stuck in his own bubble of listening to bands singing about dragons and knights - clearly mature and sophisticated and totally not juvenile.

I saw another quote earlier and this individual called Russ's singing "growling". I'd argue with that person if I thought they knew what they were talking about.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I know it's a public forum, but I truly believe it's beyond lowclass to rag a band so badly and constantly as what occurs on the SX boards.

 

[labrekk]

I just went on there and someone was saying how Russ' singing on this album and in Adrenaline Mob is like nails on a chalkboard to him/her. Someone replies that he must really hate death metal and the dude answers with:

"You're right, I can't stand death metal. SX never used to even be mentioned in the same breath as something as juvenile."

I rest my case. Clearly an IMN stuck in his own bubble of listening to bands singing about dragons and knights - clearly mature and sophisticated and totally not juvenile.

I also much prefer Russell's cleaner voice over his angry tone and I cannot stand death metal. But I can still enjoy both Paradise Lost and Iconoclast discs anyway cause even when singing in his evil mode, Russ is still a killer singer. I'd just wish he'd switch more often to the cleaner voice of the early Sym X discs and the Allen/Lande stuff.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I also much prefer Russell's cleaner voice over his angry tone and I cannot stand death metal. But I can still enjoy both Paradise Lost and Iconoclast discs anyway cause even when singing in his evil mode, Russ is still a killer singer. I'd just wish he'd switch more often to the cleaner voice of the early Sym X discs and the Allen/Lande stuff.

This is one of my earlier points. The term "progressive" means to move ahead and evolve and yet there is still a longing for the past. Isn't that contradictory to the meaning of "progressive"?

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I also much prefer Russell's cleaner voice over his angry tone and I cannot stand death metal. But I can still enjoy both Paradise Lost and Iconoclast discs anyway cause even when singing in his evil mode, Russ is still a killer singer. I'd just wish he'd switch more often to the cleaner voice of the early Sym X discs and the Allen/Lande stuff.

It's not so much that people don't like the fact that Symphony X has gotten heavier as it is that people seriously think Symphony X used to be this sophisticated slice of high art when it's a bunch of dudes from New Jersey who listened to King Diamond and write lyrics about dungeons and dragons. Shit, the only time they tried to approach high art (writing an album around John Milton's poetry, aka Paradise Lost) they basically turned an Renaissance narrative-poem into some nerdy Star Wars tribute. Not hating on any of that mind you, but let's keep things into perspective. You (and me, cause I love SX too) listen to a band whose fans have long hair, wear black t shirts, and cargo pants/shorts. Most people would consider it to be the epitome of juvenile. That's why I find those types, as well as all of these psuedo-intellectual metal nerds really funny (and by the way, you see the same exact mentality in death metal circles too - there are tons of dudes who think bands like Spawn Of Possession is some kind of high art made from brilliant composers - yeah fucking right) live in an anti-fun bubble, thinking they are elite when irl they are actually behaving juvenile by normal people's standards.

In short, people just need to stop hating on things so much...

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Exactly, AE. I could tell when I went to the Philly show this past Wednesday. I have my ICED EARTH longsleeve on and a ton of other people with IE or other metal shirts and then...the guys with gelled spiky hair, clean shaven faces, polo shirts, and nylon windbreakers. A dead giveaway to the band they were there to see. I'm not poking fun at these people because to each their own. But, I could just tell IE and Warbringer were of no interest to them.

 

[spag]

I just know that I don't spin Iconoclast as much as I do their older albums. I don't try to analyze why, just know I tend to like the older stuff more.

 

[MelbCro]

It is possible some people genuinely just don't like the album. I'm not a fan of it either, for me its one of their weaker efforts

 

[Edd037]

This is one of my earlier points. The term "progressive" means to move ahead and evolve and yet there is still a longing for the past. Isn't that contradictory to the meaning of "progressive"?

Evolving doesn't mean an album has to get heavier or that vocals have to get gruffer. Take the difference between Divine Wings of Tragedy and V. Both have rockier power metal elements (Of Sins and Shadows, Evolution), Both have quieter ballad tracks (Candlelight Fantasia, Communion and the Oracle) and both have long progressive tracks (DWOT, Rediscovery). However, both have a very different sound and approach to these tracks.

Iconoclast, however, seems to have done away with the quieter ballad tracks entirely (except for the start of WAIL) and most of the progressive tracks (Iconoclast, Reign) are must heavier. It seems like a band who used to write a wide array of different music are now only writing heavy tracks. To me this means they are becoming less progressive.

Don't get me wrong, I like songs off Iconoclast and Paradise Lost and I dislike many elements off their earlier albums. But I think it is a fair comment to say that they are becoming less progressive.