NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
motW was a great stepping stone for the brilliance that is Kayo Dot. if the new one is half as good as Choirs of the Eye, i'll be happy.
Why is this Kayo Dot album gay?
- Thread starter J.
- Start date
lizard
Member
on the down side for you, it seems Columbus will be about as far afield as they will be venturing in January. I'm really not surprised tho about here, because they got a great crowd, and exposed the band to all the local Mouth of the Architect fans (who are from Dayton).
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
D'OH.
it's okay actually. i'm generally content with seeing a band live one time, and i saw them last year. will make sure to go to their next outting in this area though.
it's okay actually. i'm generally content with seeing a band live one time, and i saw them last year. will make sure to go to their next outting in this area though.
Ellestin
one-click buy
I just talked to Mr Driver for a French zine, lemme post the raw conversation here, I suppose some of you will want to read this.
And yes of all the Kayo Dot threads I had to bump the one with the offensive title.
Greetings Toby, I hope you’re doing gloriously fine. Can you please describe your current whereabouts, attire, music listened to at this very second if applicable, and what device you’re typing these answers on... I like to see who I’m talking to, you understand.
Hi Bertrand, thanks for speaking with me. I'm currently responding to these questions on my laptop in the back of the tour van in the mountains of West Virginia and am wearing what I always wear.
Last time we spoke, you told me that you are “quite passive in terms of music, just a kind of channel on behalf of another force that traces the compositions”. Can you guess in what year that interview took place? Does this phrase still apply or is the connection between inspiration and vessel a bit less blurry these days?
Sounds like something I probably would have said between 2000-2006. I don't like to say this so much anymore because I realized I wasn't giving myself enough credit for all the extremely hard work that I do. But the feeling of this phenomenon still comes up frequently for me, for example I still occasionally dream a song, or sometimes if I look back on a piece of my music I can't figure out how I wrote it. There's a darker twist to it these days, which is: the adversarial nature of this “other force.” What I mean is that when I reflect on my life I see so many of my problems caused by music or rather my compulsion for it. I try to walk away and it keeps returning. Almost as if this “other force” is dumping these ideas into me as a punishment or joke. Well, I'm really into the “universe as simulation” idea these days, anyhow.
There is an eternal schizophrenia among music critics and fans, whereby bands are systematically expected to evolve from record to record, and often punished when they do. Kayo Dot seems largely unfazed by such concerns. Does the elastic nature of your comfort zone, and the matching appetite of your fans for change, actually strike you as something a bit unusual in the modern landscape of music? Do you feel that the band deserves a bit of credit for enabling some people’s open-mindedness by challenging expectations early on in its history?
I'm not unfazed at all. The critics' shitty comments bother me a lot, to the point I've started to see them as completely sociopathic. But as I mentioned above, there's not a single thing I can do to change who I am. So I'll just suffer through the inevitable, I guess. Kayo Dot has so many different types of fans that it's impossible to predict what they really want. We've been at this long enough to see that there are even some fans who've been around for years and years will suddenly betray us at the drop of a hat if there's something they don't like. So I have an attitude of general distrust which leaves me a bit free to make my own artistic decisions. In other words, I've already lost, they're going to hate it anyway, might as well do something that interests me. I have to add, though, that I have about ten close fans in mind, who have become friends, who I don't think will betray me.
Blasphemy follows two albums you released under your own name, as well as the digital debut of your new electro project Piggy Black Cross. Back in 2005, your first “solo” venture, In the L..L..Library Loft, was labeled as - liberally quoting your bandcamp page - basically a Kayo Dot album released as a Toby Driver album because the songs could not be performed in a live rock club. I suppose that line has shifted since, so how do you now assign your priorities? Are these all completely partitioned artistic processes, or do some songs born as Kayo Dot ideas eventually wind up on your solo albums - and vice versa?
I think that statement about In the L..L..Library Loft still holds. It would have been called a Kayo Dot album. I even perhaps regret not doing so. John Zorn had this idea that if I put it out under my own name, it would give me some name recognition, especially being on his label. He may have been right, although, I never really got anything material out of it– no festival date, no cool tour support slot, no feature in The Wire, no gig, no grants... ha. All I can see is that people forget that album exists, no one ever buys it and few dare to check it out. I've said all over the internet, “Hey, it's a Kayo Dot album!” but Kayo Dot fans look the other way. With my more recent solo albums, Madonnawhore and They Are the Shield, I have a specific aesthetic that I'm pursuing and I believe that project will stay more or less that way. It's actually quite a major experiment for me to keep something so on-the-rails.
As far as I know Blasphemy is largely informed by a novel written by your long-time buddy and former Maudlin of the Well member Jason Byron. Could you shed some light on the concept? The album carries a strong sense of escape and “adventure”. Is it an allegoric quest for more down-to-earth underlying themes?
It's the opposite of escape, in fact. It's the here and now, it's the demand to deal with the present. The superficial element of the story is that there is a planet that's made up entirely of a sea of toxic, rainbowed mist, with a handful of small continents rising up out of it atop stone spires. The world is governed by a mysterious, elite religion, the sea of mist is a god, and a few horrible people set out on a search for power. Whereas Hubardo was about following your obsession to the point beyond death, Blasphemy is almost the opposite, almost a warning against it if the intent is misguided (for example think of the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark). Beneath the surface there's a second meaning about greed and power-lust existing in the world and what might be the path to absolution, and beneath that there's my own personal relationship to this idea of destructive, adventuring obsession.
In a sense every Kayo Dot album until Blasphemy has felt like a departure from the style(s) established by its predecessor, or at least the steadfast willingness to open up new avenues. But to me Blasphemy sounds at its core like an educated synthesis of what came before. Any thoughts on that?
It is, but all of them are. Isn't Hubardo a synthesis of Coyote and Gamma Knife? (hint: yes it is). Those through-lines are always there and always have been there and I think people who hear Kayo Dot as simply this “band that changes styles” isn't listening closely.
Your vocals keep getting more versatile. Have you put a lot of effort in honing your skills, or have you just grown more confident in your range over the years?
Yes, thanks. I've been working on it for a long time. It's a constant learning process. Well, all music is, or should be.
Atmosphere in music is a subjective and at times accidental affair. You never know when and how the next goosebump will sneak up on you. As an experienced songwriter, do you have specific techniques or routines in which these accidents will happen, the great riff that will build up to an entire sequence, the collision of voices that produces a stellar chord… What is the most challenging aspect for you to breathe life into these intricate and perhaps sometimes frustrating compositions?
I don't have “tricks” like that for other people, but I do what makes sense to me and what makes me feel like a part is powerful. If it happens for someone else, then I'm lucky. If someone hired me to write a film score, maybe that would be a more appropriate context for tricks, since that's such a functional type of music. But yeah, the “life” or the icing on the cake comes when the vocals are added, I think. I've even written pieces of music in the past that I'd intended to keep instrumental, but they didn't really click until I reluctantly added a vocal part. Hah... Vocals are grounding and help crazy ideas make sense because the listener has something familiar to lead them around. Sometimes it's quite difficult to find a vocal part that fits!
It has essentially always been the case with your music, but even more since Coffins on Io I find it easy to lose track of which instruments are on duty at any given moment, due to the dreamlike and “liquid” nature of what comes out the speakers. Is this the kind of perception you set out to achieve yourself? Offer the listener a full package that merges the practical and narrative aspects of the music?
Of course, the main aesthetic of Kayo Dot has always been hallucinatory, and the darker sides of a dream. The elements of sonic mystery are crucial. The point isn't to try to separate all the parts in your mind but rather to hear it all as one big, new sound.
Also back in our former interview you were pretty adamant in denying the presence of jazz in your music, despite many such claims by reviewers. Have you given up trying to talk people out of it by now? Could it be that the term “jazz” was to be understood out-of-context, as a generic word to encompass the complexity and instrumental range, so that ultimately the misconception might have garnered extra interest from the broader jazz sphere?
I still feel the same, there is absolutely no jazz in Kayo Dot, I don't play jazz, I haven't studied jazz, I don't listen to jazz, and I'm not even interested in it for the most part. I even feel that our former publicists, labels, supporters in the press have inadvertently screwed us by dumping this epithet on us because it associates us with an aesthetic that is completely WRONG.
How much of a tech nerd are you, in general and regarding music? Would you for instance consider experimenting with artificial intelligence on future albums?
I don't have the privilege of being a tech nerd, I'm too poor. I've never even been able to get the guitar, amp, or pedals that I've wanted. Nice speakers at home? Forget it. A working laptop? Barely, and the one I use is just a loaner.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that the deal with Prophecy Productions marks your first collaboration with a European label. How did it come about? Who approached who? Does this move induce - written black on white or hypothetically - the opportunity to book more gigs this side of the world?
I don't think we know the answer yet, in regard to boosting our presence in Europe. It's too early to tell. Our collaboration was actually suggested by Jonathan from The Flenser– he knew that we really needed to grow beyond what Flenser could provide and he was already talking to Prophecy about another idea.
Speaking of concerts… There’s no denying the place that Choirs of the Eye has in the band’s résumé, let alone as a fan favorite. In 2015, it was played in its entirety during a special event at The Stone, NYC. Could you be tempted to take it on the road at some point, or to play it at some select festivals, like other bands do with “highlights” of their own? Or would you rather refrain from celebrating one specific album too much, especially as long as the band is an ongoing creative force?
Of course I would love to do that. Waiting for someone to make me the offer...
Just a final word on Piggy Black Cross... What is the story behind this project? Does its clubbish nature cater to a need for a different physicality when performing, compared to your other involvements? Always Just Out of R.E.A.C.H. feels like a darkened, underworld extension of Coffins on Io. Is it a way for you to keep digging into the eerie “future noir” agenda without repeating yourself?
Yeah, I was getting more into “body” music but since I'm a nerd I still needed it to be intensely “brain” music too. I don't really know what kind of need it stemmed from other than the fact that I wanted to learn how to make electronic music and it was something I could work on using just the laptop while I was on tour so much. I'm going to have to come up with a new concept for what “future noir” is first, because since Coffins on Io came out, there have been way too many bands, movies, shows coming out with this retro-wave shit and I don't want to be a part of that. I'll probably just direct my attention elsewhere for now.
Can you name a couple artists/albums that have made an impression on you so far in 2019? Be well, hope to see you in France soon!
Otayonii, Mario Diaz de Leon, Murcof, Zen Mother, Blood Incantation, Mamaleek, Elizabeth Colour Wheel, Helium Horse Fly, Jessika Kenney, Carl Gene, Sirun. Thanks!!
And yes of all the Kayo Dot threads I had to bump the one with the offensive title.
Greetings Toby, I hope you’re doing gloriously fine. Can you please describe your current whereabouts, attire, music listened to at this very second if applicable, and what device you’re typing these answers on... I like to see who I’m talking to, you understand.
Hi Bertrand, thanks for speaking with me. I'm currently responding to these questions on my laptop in the back of the tour van in the mountains of West Virginia and am wearing what I always wear.
Last time we spoke, you told me that you are “quite passive in terms of music, just a kind of channel on behalf of another force that traces the compositions”. Can you guess in what year that interview took place? Does this phrase still apply or is the connection between inspiration and vessel a bit less blurry these days?
Sounds like something I probably would have said between 2000-2006. I don't like to say this so much anymore because I realized I wasn't giving myself enough credit for all the extremely hard work that I do. But the feeling of this phenomenon still comes up frequently for me, for example I still occasionally dream a song, or sometimes if I look back on a piece of my music I can't figure out how I wrote it. There's a darker twist to it these days, which is: the adversarial nature of this “other force.” What I mean is that when I reflect on my life I see so many of my problems caused by music or rather my compulsion for it. I try to walk away and it keeps returning. Almost as if this “other force” is dumping these ideas into me as a punishment or joke. Well, I'm really into the “universe as simulation” idea these days, anyhow.
There is an eternal schizophrenia among music critics and fans, whereby bands are systematically expected to evolve from record to record, and often punished when they do. Kayo Dot seems largely unfazed by such concerns. Does the elastic nature of your comfort zone, and the matching appetite of your fans for change, actually strike you as something a bit unusual in the modern landscape of music? Do you feel that the band deserves a bit of credit for enabling some people’s open-mindedness by challenging expectations early on in its history?
I'm not unfazed at all. The critics' shitty comments bother me a lot, to the point I've started to see them as completely sociopathic. But as I mentioned above, there's not a single thing I can do to change who I am. So I'll just suffer through the inevitable, I guess. Kayo Dot has so many different types of fans that it's impossible to predict what they really want. We've been at this long enough to see that there are even some fans who've been around for years and years will suddenly betray us at the drop of a hat if there's something they don't like. So I have an attitude of general distrust which leaves me a bit free to make my own artistic decisions. In other words, I've already lost, they're going to hate it anyway, might as well do something that interests me. I have to add, though, that I have about ten close fans in mind, who have become friends, who I don't think will betray me.
Blasphemy follows two albums you released under your own name, as well as the digital debut of your new electro project Piggy Black Cross. Back in 2005, your first “solo” venture, In the L..L..Library Loft, was labeled as - liberally quoting your bandcamp page - basically a Kayo Dot album released as a Toby Driver album because the songs could not be performed in a live rock club. I suppose that line has shifted since, so how do you now assign your priorities? Are these all completely partitioned artistic processes, or do some songs born as Kayo Dot ideas eventually wind up on your solo albums - and vice versa?
I think that statement about In the L..L..Library Loft still holds. It would have been called a Kayo Dot album. I even perhaps regret not doing so. John Zorn had this idea that if I put it out under my own name, it would give me some name recognition, especially being on his label. He may have been right, although, I never really got anything material out of it– no festival date, no cool tour support slot, no feature in The Wire, no gig, no grants... ha. All I can see is that people forget that album exists, no one ever buys it and few dare to check it out. I've said all over the internet, “Hey, it's a Kayo Dot album!” but Kayo Dot fans look the other way. With my more recent solo albums, Madonnawhore and They Are the Shield, I have a specific aesthetic that I'm pursuing and I believe that project will stay more or less that way. It's actually quite a major experiment for me to keep something so on-the-rails.
As far as I know Blasphemy is largely informed by a novel written by your long-time buddy and former Maudlin of the Well member Jason Byron. Could you shed some light on the concept? The album carries a strong sense of escape and “adventure”. Is it an allegoric quest for more down-to-earth underlying themes?
It's the opposite of escape, in fact. It's the here and now, it's the demand to deal with the present. The superficial element of the story is that there is a planet that's made up entirely of a sea of toxic, rainbowed mist, with a handful of small continents rising up out of it atop stone spires. The world is governed by a mysterious, elite religion, the sea of mist is a god, and a few horrible people set out on a search for power. Whereas Hubardo was about following your obsession to the point beyond death, Blasphemy is almost the opposite, almost a warning against it if the intent is misguided (for example think of the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark). Beneath the surface there's a second meaning about greed and power-lust existing in the world and what might be the path to absolution, and beneath that there's my own personal relationship to this idea of destructive, adventuring obsession.
In a sense every Kayo Dot album until Blasphemy has felt like a departure from the style(s) established by its predecessor, or at least the steadfast willingness to open up new avenues. But to me Blasphemy sounds at its core like an educated synthesis of what came before. Any thoughts on that?
It is, but all of them are. Isn't Hubardo a synthesis of Coyote and Gamma Knife? (hint: yes it is). Those through-lines are always there and always have been there and I think people who hear Kayo Dot as simply this “band that changes styles” isn't listening closely.
Your vocals keep getting more versatile. Have you put a lot of effort in honing your skills, or have you just grown more confident in your range over the years?
Yes, thanks. I've been working on it for a long time. It's a constant learning process. Well, all music is, or should be.
Atmosphere in music is a subjective and at times accidental affair. You never know when and how the next goosebump will sneak up on you. As an experienced songwriter, do you have specific techniques or routines in which these accidents will happen, the great riff that will build up to an entire sequence, the collision of voices that produces a stellar chord… What is the most challenging aspect for you to breathe life into these intricate and perhaps sometimes frustrating compositions?
I don't have “tricks” like that for other people, but I do what makes sense to me and what makes me feel like a part is powerful. If it happens for someone else, then I'm lucky. If someone hired me to write a film score, maybe that would be a more appropriate context for tricks, since that's such a functional type of music. But yeah, the “life” or the icing on the cake comes when the vocals are added, I think. I've even written pieces of music in the past that I'd intended to keep instrumental, but they didn't really click until I reluctantly added a vocal part. Hah... Vocals are grounding and help crazy ideas make sense because the listener has something familiar to lead them around. Sometimes it's quite difficult to find a vocal part that fits!
It has essentially always been the case with your music, but even more since Coffins on Io I find it easy to lose track of which instruments are on duty at any given moment, due to the dreamlike and “liquid” nature of what comes out the speakers. Is this the kind of perception you set out to achieve yourself? Offer the listener a full package that merges the practical and narrative aspects of the music?
Of course, the main aesthetic of Kayo Dot has always been hallucinatory, and the darker sides of a dream. The elements of sonic mystery are crucial. The point isn't to try to separate all the parts in your mind but rather to hear it all as one big, new sound.
Also back in our former interview you were pretty adamant in denying the presence of jazz in your music, despite many such claims by reviewers. Have you given up trying to talk people out of it by now? Could it be that the term “jazz” was to be understood out-of-context, as a generic word to encompass the complexity and instrumental range, so that ultimately the misconception might have garnered extra interest from the broader jazz sphere?
I still feel the same, there is absolutely no jazz in Kayo Dot, I don't play jazz, I haven't studied jazz, I don't listen to jazz, and I'm not even interested in it for the most part. I even feel that our former publicists, labels, supporters in the press have inadvertently screwed us by dumping this epithet on us because it associates us with an aesthetic that is completely WRONG.
How much of a tech nerd are you, in general and regarding music? Would you for instance consider experimenting with artificial intelligence on future albums?
I don't have the privilege of being a tech nerd, I'm too poor. I've never even been able to get the guitar, amp, or pedals that I've wanted. Nice speakers at home? Forget it. A working laptop? Barely, and the one I use is just a loaner.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that the deal with Prophecy Productions marks your first collaboration with a European label. How did it come about? Who approached who? Does this move induce - written black on white or hypothetically - the opportunity to book more gigs this side of the world?
I don't think we know the answer yet, in regard to boosting our presence in Europe. It's too early to tell. Our collaboration was actually suggested by Jonathan from The Flenser– he knew that we really needed to grow beyond what Flenser could provide and he was already talking to Prophecy about another idea.
Speaking of concerts… There’s no denying the place that Choirs of the Eye has in the band’s résumé, let alone as a fan favorite. In 2015, it was played in its entirety during a special event at The Stone, NYC. Could you be tempted to take it on the road at some point, or to play it at some select festivals, like other bands do with “highlights” of their own? Or would you rather refrain from celebrating one specific album too much, especially as long as the band is an ongoing creative force?
Of course I would love to do that. Waiting for someone to make me the offer...
Just a final word on Piggy Black Cross... What is the story behind this project? Does its clubbish nature cater to a need for a different physicality when performing, compared to your other involvements? Always Just Out of R.E.A.C.H. feels like a darkened, underworld extension of Coffins on Io. Is it a way for you to keep digging into the eerie “future noir” agenda without repeating yourself?
Yeah, I was getting more into “body” music but since I'm a nerd I still needed it to be intensely “brain” music too. I don't really know what kind of need it stemmed from other than the fact that I wanted to learn how to make electronic music and it was something I could work on using just the laptop while I was on tour so much. I'm going to have to come up with a new concept for what “future noir” is first, because since Coffins on Io came out, there have been way too many bands, movies, shows coming out with this retro-wave shit and I don't want to be a part of that. I'll probably just direct my attention elsewhere for now.
Can you name a couple artists/albums that have made an impression on you so far in 2019? Be well, hope to see you in France soon!
Otayonii, Mario Diaz de Leon, Murcof, Zen Mother, Blood Incantation, Mamaleek, Elizabeth Colour Wheel, Helium Horse Fly, Jessika Kenney, Carl Gene, Sirun. Thanks!!
spikes77
Active Member
Thanks for posting--some nice info in there (yay mamaleek namedrop)--That Library loft album is certainly overlooked--definitely as good as the two albums after Choirs. I was at the Maudlin of the Well & Choirs Stone shows--they were amazing. I'm still going through listens of the new album--i'm glad they have shifted their style a bit---coffins and plastic had a lot of similarities.
illegalsoul
Children of God
- May 4, 2019
- 21
- 9
- 3
Krilons Resa
Jerry's married?!
Toby Driver has got to be full of shit when he says he never studied jazz. From the information I gather from the intarwebs, he studied with Yusef Lateef fer Christ's sake.
Last edited:
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
Krilons Resa
Jerry's married?!
Krilons Resa
Jerry's married?!
However, I will readily admit that MoTW >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kayo Dot.
Especially with respect to the newer KD stuff.
Especially with respect to the newer KD stuff.
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
Im tackling that album in three slivers. No way in fooq am I sitting down for an 1hr38mins of listening to this Toby kid whisper sweet nothings to a pitter patter drum beat. First 8 mins of this album lead to absolute nothing. (Pissed me off right out the gate.)
The saxophones are nice when the dude shuts up. Thats about the biggest compliment I can offer in this one album in three parts.
Help Me
The saxophones are nice when the dude shuts up. Thats about the biggest compliment I can offer in this one album in three parts.
Help Me
I had to break it up and listened to Stargazer as an interlude.
Toby should be decapitated and skull fucked by Ron Jeremy
Toby should be decapitated and skull fucked by Ron Jeremy
Ellestin
one-click buy
Agree on MotW never to be topped but have you actually listened to Coffins on Io? Easily one of the trippiest albums of the decade afaic, kinda triumphant in its vintage aloofness. Blasphemy has its moments too. Plastic Cunt on Muslim Veil is a failed experiment on a variety of levels. As for Hubardo... well suffice to say it's not a pick of mine.
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
Krilons Resa
Jerry's married?!
I dig the first couple songs, especially the first if memory serves me correctly, but then lose interest. That particular throwback 80s synthwave sound isn’t really my thing.
spikes77
Active Member
Im tackling that album in three slivers. No way in fooq am I sitting down for an 1hr38mins of listening to this Toby kid whisper sweet nothings to a pitter patter drum beat. First 8 mins of this album lead to absolute nothing. (Pissed me off right out the gate.)
The saxophones are nice when the dude shuts up. Thats about the biggest compliment I can offer in this one album in three parts.
Help Me
The first track is really a bit of an introduction (a long one to be sure)--the guy on vocals, also who writes the lyrics, had not done any growls for them since MoTW It's not that dissimilar to the first track on maudlin's bath, which is kind of an intro. It's certainly a long album, and not for everyone, but I think it has a lot of strong material.
Krilons Resa
Jerry's married?!
... but I think it has a lot of strong material.
Well, for sure, it's a large sample size.
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
9/10 - Choirs of the Eye
4/10 - Dowsing Anemone with Copper Tongue
2/10 - Blue Lambency Downward
"I will never buy a Kayo Dot album ever again."
...
7/10 - Coffins on Io
"I guess I should check out Hubardo some day."
Today is that day! This is great, I am really enjoying it.
4/10 - Dowsing Anemone with Copper Tongue
2/10 - Blue Lambency Downward
"I will never buy a Kayo Dot album ever again."
...
7/10 - Coffins on Io
"I guess I should check out Hubardo some day."
Today is that day! This is great, I am really enjoying it.
