Why nihilism?

Blowtus

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Jul 14, 2006
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Straya
I think a number here would consider themselves nihilists - I'm struggling to understand why? Nihilism appears a little contradictory to me - either it's valid and there is no point to anything, so being a 'nihilist' serves no use, or it's not valid, and it prevents any further discovery / search for meaning and purpose? Basically it seems a belief that there is no point to belief - rather self defeating...

I trust I am missing part of the picture?
 
if you could provide a definition of what you consider Nihilism it would be easier to comment.

Personally I think it is impossible to be Nihilistic if you want to consider Nihilism total apathy---we cannot escape our favoring of pleasure over pain, so by our nature it would be impossible to be a Nihilist, unless you have a definition which isn't so strict, which is what I imagine anyone calling themselves a Nihilist must have (if for no other reason than that they seem to value the title of Nihilist as belonging to them in the first place seems to connote a fundamental lack of nihilism)
 
I wonder that myself, as my life philosophy differs greatly from the path of Nihilism. It just seems to relativist or subjective to me (as value is assigned by the individual, rather than anything having an intrinsic worth or value of axiom). Yet many Nihilists try to pass themselves off as Objectivists. It doesn't make sense to me.
 
(if for no other reason than that they seem to value the title of Nihilist as belonging to them in the first place seems to connote a fundamental lack of nihilism)

That pretty much sums up what I was thinking.
My understanding of it is something along the lines of
"a: a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless. b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths"
 
Cheers. There appears to be some sort of fundamental misunderstanding or different use of the term around the place.

According to nihilists, it seems I'm a nihilist :p
Maybe I can stop harassing the poor Buddhists to rationalise more and accept I'll never fit in :lol:
Will do some more reading later.
 
Saying someone else is a nihilist has happened way more than people calling themselves nihilists cuz they don't see the use of calling themselves something as it serves no use.

@Moogle: I already read a few of those links, very interesting, good post
 
I think this thread covered nihilism quite well:


http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/philosopher/216784-nihilist-manifesto.html?highlight=nihilism


Actually, I think the sinning thread lent some insight on nihilism. Perhaps its not for everyone? Clearly first one must come to the proper understanding of what nihilism is, or means first--not some half-hearted confused or culturally obscured notion. But even then, I think many persons will require some higher power, or cause than something so theoretical and cloudy as nihilism.
 
ah :) Should have searched nihilist and not just nihilism :loco: ta.

The term nihilism is appearing rather useless on the whole. Seems a fairly large gap in definition between those who would consider themselves nihilist and those who wouldn't. Wonder why that has come about...?

The term nihilism can be defined many different ways, depending on interpretation. There are some definitions to the word (in fact the most commonly known definitions) that render it as nothing more than a belief in nothing, or belief that nothing is of any meaning, and hence belief that nothing should be done. That is fatalistic nihilism, a truly useless and unintelligent form of nihilism, and really not even true nihilism, as the term "fatalism" encompases all of that definition. This is the kind of nihilism Nietzsche opposed for the most part, truly fatalism.

Nihilism, I'm sure you know, is taken from the greek word "nihil" or "nothing." So nihilism is any ideology that is based upon the concept of "nothing," or "nothingness."

The nihilism described at ANUS is a developed, non-fatalistic, but in fact very "meaning"-based belief system. It isn't purely nihilism, though. It goes beyond just nihilism, and simply uses the term because it is the core of the belief system. Nihilism is the devaluation process which leads to real assessment of meaning, and discovery of true meaning and value. Hence, the nihilism that these sites proclaims is a very developed system of belief that comes from first removing all beliefs, a complete devaluation, and then finding that which truly has value without the biased and truly meaningless preconceptions.

From "Portrait of the Nihilist at a Shopping Mall." I think this is best summed up explanation I've read.
What is it to be a nihilist? The belief in nothing is a belief in itself. One thus does not uphold nothingness as a value, but as a method, and uses it to test all knowledge, since if we are not fatalists - people who believe that nothing can be known, nothing has meaning, that nothing can be done to change that state - we desire to remain alive. When one is alive, knowledge is important, much as learning to build fire was important to early cave-dwellers. In this realization, nihilism reduces from a belief in nothing to a belief in knowledge derived from awareness of nothingness.

Nothingness is eternal; when one is dead, for example, there is no longer an existence to even reflect on the nothingness. One is simply not there. Nothingness reminds us that all of what we know in life goes away, and upon reflection, that nothingness will triumph, thus our lives should have somethingness, which we generally define as meaning. And what is meaning? Satisfaction that one's time is well spent, for that time ends and nothingness takes over. Essentially this is applying nihilism to itself, and at that moment, nihilism passes from a self-pitying impotence into a state of power.

When we are aware of nothingness, we no longer can believe in Absolutes: a pure God who does what is right for us, moral "good" and "evil," heaven and a Utopic society. These are all pure ideals which do not exist in nature, because they do not admit that nothingness exists, nor do they recognize its necessity. In moral terms, a life lost is a horrible thing, but what if that was a well-lived life tapering down into Alzheimer's disease, incontinence and hoping for a high score at canasta? What if it is murderer, or someone who is so diseased their life is misery? Nothingness can be a savior. When we forget nothingness, we lapse into well-meaning Absolutes designed to make us feel better about life, but is not that a presumption that life itself is bad?

A nihilist is one who accepts nothingness as necessary for the whole to exist; above "good" and "bad" there is "meta-good," which requires both good and bad. This goes beyond a belief in nothingness; it is a belief in the necessity of nothingness, both in the operations of nature and in our ability to perceive nature. A fatalist, or one who believes nothing can be known or done, is not outside this view of "good" and "evil," but a nihilist is. Having accepted that Absolutes do not exist, a nihilist is then tasked with the goal of finding meaning and order in the universe, since anyone except a fatalist will attempt this task as part of the process of being alive.
 
From "Portrait of the Nihilist at a Shopping Mall." I think this is best summed up explanation I've read.

that paragraph doesn't really say a lot to me, it really just seems like existentialism minus any human insight. as B said "According to nihilists, it seems I'm a nihilist." lol but it seems like just a foundation on which a lot of actual whole philosophies could be built, of which would be better to label oneself by.
 
that paragraph doesn't really say a lot to me, it really just seems like existentialism minus any human insight. as B said "According to nihilists, it seems I'm a nihilist." lol but it seems like just a foundation on which a lot of actual whole philosophies could be built, of which would be better to label oneself by.

I've never really identified with the term for just this reason. In fact, I've seen the existentialism/nihilism comparison before. I recall hearing Nietzsche called both, while he technically decried nihilism...in certain forms, at least. It seems to have developed into one of those catch-all terms bandied about to mean a variety of loosely similar things...yet it isn't always clear which definition is in use.
 
Could there be any more appropriate term to describe the realisation that you are the one who must give meaning to things - as meaning does not otherwise exist?
 
The 19th century Russian Nihilism is quite different to anything discussed here. It was not fatalistic but annihilistic - about destroying the old order.
They had some stupid fashions:
The lifestyle of the nihilist, or New People, is worth reviewing, if for no other reason, because of its similarity to youth movements of the modern era. While advocating for a callous hedonism and radical subjectivity, in practice nihilists actually tended towards a utilitarian and ascetic lifestyle. The fashion is a case in point. “Both sexes favoured blue-tinted spectacles and high boots. Other common features were a heavy walking-stick and a rug flung over the shoulders in cold weather; they called it a plaid, but it was not necessarily a tartan.” (Hingley) This, coupled with huge beards for men and bobs for women, a voracious appetite for cigarettes, an unwashed dirty appearance, and rude and outspoken behavior made the New People a sight to behold.
http://www.pistolsdrawn.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30

But there is common ground with today's nihilists in the basic idea
As a positive philosophy Nihilism took positions within the framework of established philosophy. Nihilist materialism boiled down to the view that "only what is perceptible exists". Man, then, was "a complex chemical compound, governed strictly by the law of causality."
 
Nihilism appears a little contradictory to me - either it's valid and there is no point to anything, so being a 'nihilist' serves no use, or it's not valid, and it prevents any further discovery / search for meaning and purpose?

Nihilism means there's no point to life, so we invent our own and cooperate with nature. It's just realism in an extreme form.

http://www.nihil.org/
 
Could there be any more appropriate term to describe the realisation that you are the one who must give meaning to things - as meaning does not otherwise exist?

Probably not that I could suggest!:p It is more the sometimes dualistic way the term is used than the term itself or the meaning you have provided here than I find troublesome...if that makes any sense.

Still - how might Nihilism compare to Heidegger and Dasein? Would anyone suggest similarities in the notion that we create our own values(ala Nietzsche) and we are just Humans being-unto-death...a temporal, existential being - but without meaning beyond what we assign to things? How is Nihilism different from this?