Greeno said:
So let me see if I understand where you're coming from:
you have a vehement harted for Kip Winger and refuse to acknowledge that
he's more metal than Pantera, Slayer or Halford? Is that what you're saying?!?!?! :Spin:
WINGER (serious thread!)
- Thread starter SoundMaster
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So let me see if I understand where you're coming from:
you have a vehement harted for Kip Winger and refuse to acknowledge that
he's more metal than Pantera, Slayer or Halford? Is that what you're saying?!?!?! :Spin:
Sorry to inspire a "What is metal" argument coz I hate those arguments too!
I was basically just commenting about how Winger seems to be the main target of the "pussy poodle hair poser metal" kinda thing (all because of Beavis & Butthead too haha, Kip must hate that show now!) where you can't really bag a melodic hard rock band for being pussies coz all that stuff sounds & looks like that.
Basically, its all about who the band was TRYING to appeal to, and if they please THAT audience, they do a good job. I don't think Winger were ever trying to win over the Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Anthrax, Megadeth, Metallica type audience. They were trying to appeal to the Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Dokken, Warrant, kinda audience which they generally did I think, so I don't think it really matters if the Maiden/Priest/Deth/Metallica audience hated them.
And thanks USMC
I was basically just commenting about how Winger seems to be the main target of the "pussy poodle hair poser metal" kinda thing (all because of Beavis & Butthead too haha, Kip must hate that show now!) where you can't really bag a melodic hard rock band for being pussies coz all that stuff sounds & looks like that.
Basically, its all about who the band was TRYING to appeal to, and if they please THAT audience, they do a good job. I don't think Winger were ever trying to win over the Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Anthrax, Megadeth, Metallica type audience. They were trying to appeal to the Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Dokken, Warrant, kinda audience which they generally did I think, so I don't think it really matters if the Maiden/Priest/Deth/Metallica audience hated them.
And thanks USMC
Bryant
Mr. Sleepy
Well, when the majority of the "hair metal" bands were coming out, less White Lion (because I thought their guitarist was GOD) I picked and poked at them quite a bit. I thought the lyrics were lame and their image was pretty much silly as hell as well.
As I grew a little older, I started seeing things a little differently. I am not really into "hair-metal" even today as a whole, but I learned to enjoy a few bands (because I gave them a chance) and realized that bashing them is also pretty pointless because I never was part of their "target" audience to begin with.
Certainly it is safe to say "hair-metal/glam-rock" etc. was over-saturated in the mid-80's and there were plenty of copy-cats and talentless hacks cashing in on explosion, but not all were like that. Jon Bon-Jovi almost permenantly lost his voice twice by refusing to cancel/postpone tour dates. He played several shows with full-blown pneumonia. The lead vocalist of Poison (everyone's favorite to take pop shots at) Brett Micheals passed out on stage in need of insulin a few times, not only because he partied too much, but because he simply worked too hard. Much less how hard CC Deville worked the stage running around like a wildman.
I am sure Baldy can attest that although playing music is a fun living at times, the hours suck and it is hard work. Recording/practicing/writing music as well as touring is pretty grueling. Drummers get tired and worn out, throats get sore, fingers get stiff and numb (especially during outdoor events) and it's always hard as hell to see the fans due to the 10,000,000 candlepower stage lighting, but you try and interact best you can with them.
Some of these hair-bands are still at it and now they play hole-in-the-wall clubs as opposed to packed out mid/large arenas. As I stated about "us" not being there target audience, it IS often "us" that like to belittle them by calling them fags, posers or whatever. These bands that are still around have worked their ass off, though they have come full circle. Does it make me "like" them and go out and buy their music..... not at all......... but it gives me enough respect for them not to bash them simply because I happen to not care for their music or image.
I am not being some overly sensitive hippy freak here either, as there are many, many people that used hair bands as their stepping stone to the more intense forms of metal. Many of the glam/hair bands accomplished what they set out to do. I think Winger probably did as well.
That gets me back on-topic here. Winger was a solid band as far as musicianship to include vocals and was close to "elite" in guitars. The lyrics to "Seventeen" don't bother me one bit. Certainly, Kip was singing the song and in his 30's which is VERY wrong if you look at it like that, but his target audience was mid-late teens. When you were 18 or 19 years old, despite the law, a girl seventeen was pretty much fair game.
Bryant
As I grew a little older, I started seeing things a little differently. I am not really into "hair-metal" even today as a whole, but I learned to enjoy a few bands (because I gave them a chance) and realized that bashing them is also pretty pointless because I never was part of their "target" audience to begin with.
Certainly it is safe to say "hair-metal/glam-rock" etc. was over-saturated in the mid-80's and there were plenty of copy-cats and talentless hacks cashing in on explosion, but not all were like that. Jon Bon-Jovi almost permenantly lost his voice twice by refusing to cancel/postpone tour dates. He played several shows with full-blown pneumonia. The lead vocalist of Poison (everyone's favorite to take pop shots at) Brett Micheals passed out on stage in need of insulin a few times, not only because he partied too much, but because he simply worked too hard. Much less how hard CC Deville worked the stage running around like a wildman.
I am sure Baldy can attest that although playing music is a fun living at times, the hours suck and it is hard work. Recording/practicing/writing music as well as touring is pretty grueling. Drummers get tired and worn out, throats get sore, fingers get stiff and numb (especially during outdoor events) and it's always hard as hell to see the fans due to the 10,000,000 candlepower stage lighting, but you try and interact best you can with them.
Some of these hair-bands are still at it and now they play hole-in-the-wall clubs as opposed to packed out mid/large arenas. As I stated about "us" not being there target audience, it IS often "us" that like to belittle them by calling them fags, posers or whatever. These bands that are still around have worked their ass off, though they have come full circle. Does it make me "like" them and go out and buy their music..... not at all......... but it gives me enough respect for them not to bash them simply because I happen to not care for their music or image.
I am not being some overly sensitive hippy freak here either, as there are many, many people that used hair bands as their stepping stone to the more intense forms of metal. Many of the glam/hair bands accomplished what they set out to do. I think Winger probably did as well.
That gets me back on-topic here. Winger was a solid band as far as musicianship to include vocals and was close to "elite" in guitars. The lyrics to "Seventeen" don't bother me one bit. Certainly, Kip was singing the song and in his 30's which is VERY wrong if you look at it like that, but his target audience was mid-late teens. When you were 18 or 19 years old, despite the law, a girl seventeen was pretty much fair game.
Bryant
Well, even though I never paid much attention to Winger, I never skipped a song of theirs while it was being played... like many of the 80's stuff it was catchy. Anyway, Monday night my friend and I went to see "Stripped" on the Sunset Strip which was basically a semi-acoustic show featuring the following bands/Musicians:
Kip Winger
Jani Lane
Great White
Night Ranger
Alias (vocalist, can't remember his name)
LA Guns
Slaughter
Anyway, at first I really didn't want to go to this show because I thought to myself "I really don't wanna see this, washed up 80's musicians that are trying to grab a last buck and now sound terrible and outdated"
Well, I must say I was TOTALLY wrong and I am still thanking my friend for pushing me into going... wow, it was a blast! All these guys put on a fucking amazing show! Top class musicians who gave their all and you could really tell that they had rehearsed...all in top form!
I was particularly impressed with Kip Winger (great voice, stage presence and nice guitar work... it was just him and a guitar!) Great White (holy shit this guy can belt it out! I think I will pick up the best of Great White pretty soon! ) and Nightranger (top class musicians!). All the bands were great, but these 3 just kicked major ass. I am so glad I went! At the end they even did a Zeppelin/Deep Purple/AC DC meddley!
Kip Winger
Jani Lane
Great White
Night Ranger
Alias (vocalist, can't remember his name)
LA Guns
Slaughter
Anyway, at first I really didn't want to go to this show because I thought to myself "I really don't wanna see this, washed up 80's musicians that are trying to grab a last buck and now sound terrible and outdated"
Well, I must say I was TOTALLY wrong and I am still thanking my friend for pushing me into going... wow, it was a blast! All these guys put on a fucking amazing show! Top class musicians who gave their all and you could really tell that they had rehearsed...all in top form!
I was particularly impressed with Kip Winger (great voice, stage presence and nice guitar work... it was just him and a guitar!) Great White (holy shit this guy can belt it out! I think I will pick up the best of Great White pretty soon!
) and Nightranger (top class musicians!). All the bands were great, but these 3 just kicked major ass. I am so glad I went! At the end they even did a Zeppelin/Deep Purple/AC DC meddley!
USMC0341
Dead Cold Day
Trixxi Trash said:Sorry to inspire a "What is metal" argument coz I hate those arguments too!
I was basically just commenting about how Winger seems to be the main target of the "pussy poodle hair poser metal" kinda thing (all because of Beavis & Butthead too haha, Kip must hate that show now!) where you can't really bag a melodic hard rock band for being pussies coz all that stuff sounds & looks like that.
Basically, its all about who the band was TRYING to appeal to, and if they please THAT audience, they do a good job. I don't think Winger were ever trying to win over the Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Anthrax, Megadeth, Metallica type audience. They were trying to appeal to the Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Dokken, Warrant, kinda audience which they generally did I think, so I don't think it really matters if the Maiden/Priest/Deth/Metallica audience hated them.
And thanks USMC
Quite welcome Trixx...
...and as for the critics - some of us like discussing these subjects. I think a healthy, rational debate is a good thing - and more often than not, I end up learning something from someone who disagrees with my point of view.
Bryant...that's a great post! And I totally agree with you... even though I love my Bon Jovi boys I never was a HUGE fan of the "popular 80's metal" of course there was some of it that I liked and sang along to... not ashamed to admit that, but it's true... a lot of these bands worked so hard to get to where they got... sure they had the silly image.. and now when they look back at those old videos they cringe at what they were wearing but a lot of them were indeed good musicians.
but a lot of them were indeed good musicians.Pabla said:Bryant...that's a great post! And I totally agree with you... even though I love my Bon Jovi boys I never was a HUGE fan of the "popular 80's metal" of course there was some of it that I liked and sang along to... not ashamed to admit that, but it's true... a lot of these bands worked so hard to get to where they got... sure they had the silly image.. and now when they look back at those old videos they cringe at what they were wearing
Welcome back Pabla.. haven't seen you on here in awhile...
Bryant
Mr. Sleepy
MetalAges said:
I saw them open for someone I liked at the time...... maybe Ratt. They started the show early and I only caught half their set, but Kip was no slouch on the bass. I doubt he'll be replacing Chris Squire for the next Yes tour or anything, but he was pretty good and had a good tone as well.
Bryant
SickBoy
Croatian Panzer division
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