Would you let bad production get in the way of an otherwise good album?

Yup, I think songwise it is their best album but because of the production I would say that Lunar Poetry is probably their best overrall.

I'm listening to Lunar Poetry right now and it's the perfect production for symphonic black metal. The keyboards and guitars are equally perceivable, which is important because they both play the lead roles in harmony with each other. The drums are the perfect volume, and the vocals are produced so as to add to the atmosphere.
 
I'm listening to Lunar Poetry right now and it's the perfect production for symphonic black metal. The keyboards and guitars are equally perceivable, which is important because they both play the lead roles in harmony with each other. The drums are the perfect volume, and the vocals are produced so as to add to the atmosphere.

The re-issue cleaned up some of the production products that the original release had. There are still some production "blips" on the first track and I think the leads needed to be clearer in the mix but otherwise it sounds great.
 
I think it's fine the way it is, so that you are more focused on the leads, which helps you become better absorbed into the music. That and the relative softness of the guitars helps the all-important atmosphere.
 
I've never loved it. I've kinda liked it, but I haven't listened to it enough to really know what I think. But I can tell you that I was upset when Jason Newstead left Flotsam and Jetsam for Metallica. Who can blame him, I suppose. But at the time I was a bigger fan of the mighty Doomsday for the Deceiver, and felt Metallica was going to ruin F&J by taking Jason. Looks like I was right...but I didn't realize it would also begin the downfall of Metallica.

Flotsam and Jetsam wasn't even that great of a band to begin with.
 
I've been listening to Metal for over twenty-five years and I will NEVER understand the allure of the consciously(ie. intentionally) "lo-fi" production anymore than I will the hyper-clean, sterile "Disney metal" clickety-clack productions, to partially borrow a phrase from an earlier post.
I can still remember ecstatically listening to "Welcome To Hell"(on vinyl of course)on a super-cheap, Sears & Roebuck stand-alone record player in like 1982, and that STILL sounded better than half the Black Metal churned out in recent years. What the Hell does "lo-fi" add to the music? That isn't what it sounds like when it is actually played live!

To my ear, Metal has always been about power expressed musically - weak, thin, muffled or tinny productions drain all the power from the music. What is left is a glorified hiss, with percussive thumps here and there and lots of cymbal noise, perhaps.

I still love the production of very early Sodom, Venom, Bathory, Destruction, even Motorhead, etc. it is all still powerful, if rough here and there - but that was all they had to work with and it is still fully intelligible music. Too much of the "lo-fi" just does nothing for me...which sucks as I have loved BM since Quarthon was sporting chicken-bones and big hair!!

Oh well, to each his own...
 
I've been listening to Metal for over twenty-five years and I will NEVER understand the allure of the consciously(ie. intentionally) "lo-fi" production anymore than I will the hyper-clean, sterile "Disney metal" clickety-clack productions, to partially borrow a phrase from an earlier post.
I can still remember ecstatically listening to "Welcome To Hell"(on vinyl of course)on a super-cheap, Sears & Roebuck stand-alone record player in like 1982, and that STILL sounded better than half the Black Metal churned out in recent years. What the Hell does "lo-fi" add to the music? That isn't what it sounds like when it is actually played live!

It adds atmosphere to the songs. Besides, most BM bands don't play live anyway.
 
Piss poor "necro" production only really fits with raw, minimalistic black metal. Darkthrone - Transylvanian Hunger and Moonblood - Blut und Krieg are good examples. It doesn't fit with symphonic black metal, or the kind of black metal Immortal played.
 
It adds atmosphere to the songs. Besides, most BM bands don't play live anyway.

I should have been clearer - I like plenty of BM that is what I would deem raw in many ways...say Sargeist for instance. But that is still altogether "listenable" from a musical standpoint. It's just the REALLY "necro" stuff, where the drums are barely audible(if at all), no bottom, etc., that I cannot abide. If that type of production adds atmosphere, then it is lost on me, and perhaps that's the case.

As for playing live - I didn't necessarily mean playing "live" in the concert-setting sense, as much as simply playing the music to record/rehearse, etc. Then again, with much one-man BM and the like, I guess it doesn't apply there either.
 
What else can I say? Put aside your preconceptions and try listening to music with an open mind, that's my advice.

So should there be no such thing as personal preference? Do you think Metallica/Bob Rock were being 'innovative' with the production on StAnger as well? Should I go listen to that album with an open mind and discover its hidden genius? Your assumption that I'm closed-minded with regards to music appreciation basically reeks of arrogance.

I know nothing of any youtube version, there was a version going around on p2p years ago that was received favourably by some.

I'm not interested in some half-arsed inferior version.
 
To answer the original question, no.

Well, not yet.

L'Acephale's "Mord Und Totsclag" is a brilliant album of . . . well, I dunno wtf genre it'd be, but it's awesome. My favourite track is "Book of Lies" . . . which, it must be said, has some shitty production. The vocals drown out the riffs - when they're there. Otherwise the riffs come forward, so you end up kind of rocking to it (as in, to and fro like a baby, not rocking out) and it does get distracting. But it's nowhere near bad enough to ruin my enjoyment of what is a wonderful example of inventive metal.

But it's the only album I've heard where the production is noticeable bad in comparison to the music.

\m/ Hammer
 
There are certain albums that I absolutely loathed from the first few listens, but kept trying, thinking that I must be missing something. This especially happens to me with:
1) Dense, heavily layered albums, that I feel are just blown out of proportion, but with further exposure, begin to pick up snippets of brilliance which compels me to keep listening until I manage to untangle the whole mess. Of course, this is provided, that the sound on the album actually helps in this endeavor rather than just interferes.

2) Albums that seem poorly produced, without being too harrowing on the ears, that don't really let you hear what's going on there under the surface at first, but with more listens or more suitable audio equipement you get accustomed to the production and begin to pick up things you haven't heard before.

The issue here, however, is that of backward reasoning. What I mean is, that a lot of the albums that get discussed here are considered classics in the underground, so many people already having that in mind, listen to these records trying to establish what is that merited a certain album its classic status, and they either "get" it eventually or don't.

Of course, this also depends what is it actually that you're looking for in music: killer riffs, catchiness, virtuosity, atmosphere or any combination of these.
A lot of albums whose prime feature is atmosphere, for instance, are often built on repetiveness, meandering song structures, minimalism, so obviously, people who are not looking for atmosphere will write them off as boring.
In the same way, people who are looking for atmosphere will probably regard albums whose main strength is virtuosity, with flashy solos galore and tempos that change every few seconds for no apparent reason as tedious, since they fail to maintain a single mood throughout.
So you see, it all depends on your perception of things and what is it that you're looking for in music, in general.

This is a great post that some of you need to read again... & again... & again...


Production is indeed an important part of music & it is what adds a lot of character to so many albums. We might act like it doesn't sometimes, but just imagin ANY album with completely different production.

I enjoy all kinds of production. I wuoldn't want to listen to this raw Kvlt Black Metal prouduction all day any more than I would want to listen to Britney Spears production all day. There is good to be found in all kinds of music & production qualities.

That being said, there are some bands that have such bad production I don't see myself ever being able to get into them. For example I love early Emperor & Burzum, but I could never find anything likable about early Immortal.
 
So should there be no such thing as personal preference? Do you think Metallica/Bob Rock were being 'innovative' with the production on StAnger as well?
Lamb Of God had already used a similar snare sound to great effect on New American Gospel but it was probably a new approach for their specific style. The production was about the only interesting thing about that album; I found it gave the otherwise bland and occasionally embarrassing material a bit of a kick (too little to late though).

Your assumption that I'm closed-minded with regards to music appreciation basically reeks of arrogance.
Your attitude on music production is close-minded. Until you demonstrate otherwise, it's a logical conclusion.

I'm not interested in some half-arsed inferior version.
Sounds like you are, looking for a "properly remixed" version and all. Stop thinking in terms of value and quality.
 
Depends what it is really, the one band that comes to my mind is Clad In Darkness. The songs I have have rather bad production but I still love them :)
 
Your attitude on music production is close-minded. Until you demonstrate otherwise, it's a logical conclusion.

If I happen to understand the production process and can hear noticeable mistakes, does that automatically make me closed-minded? If I have a personal preference does that make me closed-minded? Are there no albums that you don't like the production on?

Sounds like you are, looking for a "properly remixed" version and all. Stop thinking in terms of value and quality.

I'd like to hear a remixed version minus the production faults I can hear. It would improve the listenability of the album for me. That's it.
 
One thing that I don't like mainly on some old Thrash albums is that sometimes the production is too straight forward throughout the album & there's no points where they try to use production to expand on an idea. The drums & guitars just always sound the same. I've been listening to Massacra lately & they brought this to mind the other day. I think it might be the drummers fault though :loco: He seems to not add to the music, but instead is a glorified Thrash metronome.
 
fascinating fact: "bad" production is that which detracts from/contradicts other elements of an album, theres no such thing as bad production in itself
 
noticeable mistakes
production faults
This is a mindset to be overcome, until you do so I don't expect you to understand.

Are there no albums that you don't like the production on?
"Production" isn't something to be set apart and judged on its own. I look at it as a part interacting with other aspects of the whole. And personal dislike is a long way off from "faults" and "mistakes."