Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
that still proves Drew's point though .... solid songwriting negates the need for "formula" or, in Opeth's case, image to = success
YOLOCORE.
- Thread starter Sloan
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Skaldir
formerly known as Unicorn
Type O Negative had a very strong image / visual image. People like bands that have an image. They can identify with the band easier then. In Pop as in Metal. Reading "Bravo" or a metal magazin is sadly almost the same hehe
CubanDude
not really cuban
- Nov 17, 2010
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Which I never questioned. Actually that even was my point, too. But I said you have to be REALLY REALLY OUTSTANDING if you want to make complex music and have commercial success with it. Like I said, Akerfeldt is a genius, one of the best contemporary songwriters in metal.
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
I know, you and I are in agreement on all of it I think ... was just saying that some of the things he (Sami) says shouldn't be said as if they're absolute fact just because he's managed success by following those particular guidelines
Machinated
Member
vocals are way too quiet. drums are way too programmed.
oh wait, this isnt rate my mix.
in that case, i'd rattle most of that band providing they can prove they have working vaginas. the music is terrible, comparing them to paramore is a disgrace, and the fact people knock the beatles on this forum when bands like this exist sickens me.
next.
oh wait, this isnt rate my mix.
in that case, i'd rattle most of that band providing they can prove they have working vaginas. the music is terrible, comparing them to paramore is a disgrace, and the fact people knock the beatles on this forum when bands like this exist sickens me.
next.
smy1
Member
I've been a huge fan of Type O Negative, who have 9-minute songs, but
thinking that Type O Negative would have made it as big as they did without "Black No. 1" on MTV is a fallacy. The video was absolutely perfect in timing, look and content. They were also on Roadrunner, the most powerful non-major metal label at that time.
I'm still unsure why everyone thinks I generally advocate song lengths of 3 minutes. Just cause Drew's songs were badly in need of trimming parts doesn't mean every song should be 3:30mins.
It's the artists job to question "do I really need this part to make the song say what it is supposed to say?" but since most artists are unable to evaluate that, this trimming ends up being the producers job.
That's why most of my own dance tracks are 3-4 minutes, because how much time do you need to get people to run to the dancefloor and dance before they forget what the song was about?
Long tracks are useless if they don't fulfill a purpose. It's like having a 30cm dick with erectile dysfunction and pointing at it saying "... but it's LONG!"
thinking that Type O Negative would have made it as big as they did without "Black No. 1" on MTV is a fallacy. The video was absolutely perfect in timing, look and content. They were also on Roadrunner, the most powerful non-major metal label at that time.
I'm still unsure why everyone thinks I generally advocate song lengths of 3 minutes. Just cause Drew's songs were badly in need of trimming parts doesn't mean every song should be 3:30mins.
It's the artists job to question "do I really need this part to make the song say what it is supposed to say?" but since most artists are unable to evaluate that, this trimming ends up being the producers job.
That's why most of my own dance tracks are 3-4 minutes, because how much time do you need to get people to run to the dancefloor and dance before they forget what the song was about?
Long tracks are useless if they don't fulfill a purpose. It's like having a 30cm dick with erectile dysfunction and pointing at it saying "... but it's LONG!"
smy1
Member
Actually if I was following "scene approved" guidelines I'd be much more successful.
Doesn't mean I'm not aware of what I'm doing, adjusting it and having a plan.
smy1
Member
With the difference that metal bands and magazines pretend to be "more" than Bravo is.
I sure hope they won't start printing pics of nude "Headbanger Of The Month" people
Clockwork
Bass playing guy.
smy1
Member
Just did a rough google search and it seems that Opeth are selling less than 1/10th of the amount of records that Type O Negative sold (66000 on Blackwater Park vs over 1000000 on Bloody Kisses). Not that record sales are an indication of quality but they allow greater artistic freedom.
With the 50-75000 records per album Opeth sell I wouldn't be surprised if they still have dayjobs (unless they play shitloads of gigs).
With the 50-75000 records per album Opeth sell I wouldn't be surprised if they still have dayjobs (unless they play shitloads of gigs).
Clockwork
Bass playing guy.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Your songs are badly in need of a vocalist who can sing, and less mainstream boring production that sounds like Deadmau5 crossed with Nine Inch Nails from '91. I wouldn't be surprised if you paid for half your Facebook likes and Twitter followers, because the quality of your product certainly doesn't imply a large following.
See... ^^ It's pretty easy to give your honest opinion about something, resulting in everyone thinking you come across like a cunt. I'm surprised you weren't expecting some reaction along the lines of what I've written here - was going to happen eventually.
The amount of bullshit you chat... jeez man... maybe *think* about how you come across? Maybe consider that your method of songwriting isn't the only way, and isn't an automatic beeline to success.
This just speaks to your over inflated ego, and your complete ignorance. Progressive music isn't made for the fucking DANCEFLOOR!
I've played your stuff to multiple people since our last encounter. Every single one of them said it sounded toss; like a weak version of Orbital. They all slated your production too - trendy sidechain emphasis, where the kick hits, and everything else gets sucked out of the mix. Telltale sign of someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Actually man, if you go back to that thread:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/bar/854866-gigging-any-point-these-days.html
You'll see that initially I wasn't even talking about how we didn't get enough attention. It kinda morphed into that towards the end, but initially I was lamenting the state of the live music scene - particularly here in the UK.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Ultimately, my feeling is that music made for a dancefloor or a club situation is not comparable to music made for listening. People do not go to clubs to listen to music. They go to take drugs, get wasted, and dance their tits off. They go for a tribal experience. A bit of a generalization, but in the main it is true.
This totally taps into the current hedonistic Western mindset. People work the dullest office jobs, have families they hate, and have no real passion other than getting fucked and chasing entertainment and fun. Internet culture bears this out, where every fucking funny thing suddenly becomes a meme, and is shared around for idiots to gawk at. It stands to reason that most of these people would rather go to a club and dance, than go to a gig and experience more of a meditative musical journey. This goes past aesthetics. People don't have the patience for prog-rock or metal that has a concept behind it and a story to be told. They just want the four to the floor kick drum with a Micro-fucking-Korg over the top of it.
Maybe that's an over the top representation of the situation. But I'd say the audience for prog-metal, post-metal, cinematic stuff, is way less than there is for dancefloor music ... right off the bat. So acting surprised when those acts aren't as popular, and then going "well you need to work harder, change your songs, and change the way you market yourself!" is not an appropriate response. The same techniques do not work for all types of music.
Everyone has to feel their own way through it.
And I do think Sami makes some interesting points some of the time, I just lament that they're so often shrouded in pompous, self-important, aggrandizement.
This totally taps into the current hedonistic Western mindset. People work the dullest office jobs, have families they hate, and have no real passion other than getting fucked and chasing entertainment and fun. Internet culture bears this out, where every fucking funny thing suddenly becomes a meme, and is shared around for idiots to gawk at. It stands to reason that most of these people would rather go to a club and dance, than go to a gig and experience more of a meditative musical journey. This goes past aesthetics. People don't have the patience for prog-rock or metal that has a concept behind it and a story to be told. They just want the four to the floor kick drum with a Micro-fucking-Korg over the top of it.
Maybe that's an over the top representation of the situation. But I'd say the audience for prog-metal, post-metal, cinematic stuff, is way less than there is for dancefloor music ... right off the bat. So acting surprised when those acts aren't as popular, and then going "well you need to work harder, change your songs, and change the way you market yourself!" is not an appropriate response. The same techniques do not work for all types of music.
Everyone has to feel their own way through it.
And I do think Sami makes some interesting points some of the time, I just lament that they're so often shrouded in pompous, self-important, aggrandizement.
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
I'm not claiming they would have. Matter of fact, I even made mention of the fact that there was an image that worked in their favor, that video being paramount to their success.
They were just one example of a band writing a lot of music and songs that, all things aside, you might personally feel could have had 3 or more minutes chopped off or even turned into an entirely new song.
moving away from the image aspect that everyone focused on in my last couple posts I'll go back to one direct example I gave in one of the same posts that was in direct opposition ... Opeth
there is no image there, just a group of swedish hippie looking fucks that draw no more attention to themselves than any other metal band. While its true they have not sold the sheer amount that Type O had, if I'm not mistaken, NO other RR band has sold as much as Type O. With the sheer amount of variety on that label with metal bands, that is kinda saying something more about Type O than about specific methods of song production / formatting
again, just playing devil's advocate here
infest
Member
- Nov 29, 2010
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Everything that smy1 wrote is logical and makes complete sense, when you think about it from a non-emotional (and some would say a somewhat non-artistic?) point of view. Hell, I agree to a lot of his points. But the thing is, I can't escape the feeling that music, as an art form, is so much more than just a set of guidelines or boxes to check.
While it does make sense to cater to an audience and have a more cohesive image, some bands (and styles) just aren't about that at all. ( and if that's all a band has to offer, then it's kind of sad really )
Actually, it's kind of crazy that a club techno ( or whatever smy1 is making, I'm not familiar with the syle ) artist is having an argument with a prog metal/rock artist. When two completely different ideologies collide, it's bound to get ugly.
With all that said, oh man, that yolo band represents everything that is wrong with music these days
While it does make sense to cater to an audience and have a more cohesive image, some bands (and styles) just aren't about that at all. ( and if that's all a band has to offer, then it's kind of sad really )
Actually, it's kind of crazy that a club techno ( or whatever smy1 is making, I'm not familiar with the syle ) artist is having an argument with a prog metal/rock artist. When two completely different ideologies collide, it's bound to get ugly.
With all that said, oh man, that yolo band represents everything that is wrong with music these days
CubanDude
not really cuban
- Nov 17, 2010
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Steven Wilson was #3 in the German charts with his latest release, The Raven That Refused To Sing. Still your points are valid, most people don't take music seriously these days (not sure if they ever have and I wouldn't say society has changed that much in terms of hedonism. Those kings in medieval times fucked like crazy).
drew_drummer
Dancefap
