YOLOCORE.
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Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
lanky noob
Member
Line666
Fendurr
- Sep 2, 2006
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Posted this on Facebook recently;
"Some local bands are better self publicists than actual musicians, songwriters or even people; it amazes me the lengths some 'musicians' in scenes will go to propagate an illusion which is more often than not based on the back of some producers box of magic tricks. This is why its important not to support local music but to support good music, theres a difference between musicians working hard to be creative and a group of people peddling Nirvana knock off riffs to 15 year olds and buying facebook likes."
I will say straight out that statement is an entirely populist stance and does not necessarily reflect what I feel is the entire picture; its a soundbite for the musically involved on my facebook to agree with mostly on the basis that it ties in their musical beliefs with mine because at this stage I would rather work on intellectualised projects than overprocessed pop soundbites. I am mostly saying this because I understand the value in projecting something that is moderately controversial enough to tie your peer group in with you. Some people would call this lying.
Ultimately I think even a lot of good music is fairly derivative anyway but the tragic reality is that good musically involved bands are usually shitty publicists and borderline plagiarising egomaniacs make the best self marketers; rarely do bands live in both realities of being good musicians and being good marketers because to an extent the two inherently contradict each other. Ultimately I think it depends on who you want to support you in your art - its a waste of time Drew complaining that the 16 year olds who prefer the musically bland don't support his band as much as Sammy expecting more musically intellectualised types to celebrate him as some sort of musical voyeur because these people are culturally designated to support the musically and culturally subversive - awkward time signatures, coffees with stupid names, bad sweaters et al. I think the irony of most of this is that often people say they don't have a scene or image but they do and it's one based on that element of denial. You are as much defined by the things you don't do as those you do. The joy of music is that there is something for everybody - but very few bands get to have their cake and eat it in regards to being both underground and overground heroes.
"Some local bands are better self publicists than actual musicians, songwriters or even people; it amazes me the lengths some 'musicians' in scenes will go to propagate an illusion which is more often than not based on the back of some producers box of magic tricks. This is why its important not to support local music but to support good music, theres a difference between musicians working hard to be creative and a group of people peddling Nirvana knock off riffs to 15 year olds and buying facebook likes."
I will say straight out that statement is an entirely populist stance and does not necessarily reflect what I feel is the entire picture; its a soundbite for the musically involved on my facebook to agree with mostly on the basis that it ties in their musical beliefs with mine because at this stage I would rather work on intellectualised projects than overprocessed pop soundbites. I am mostly saying this because I understand the value in projecting something that is moderately controversial enough to tie your peer group in with you. Some people would call this lying.
Ultimately I think even a lot of good music is fairly derivative anyway but the tragic reality is that good musically involved bands are usually shitty publicists and borderline plagiarising egomaniacs make the best self marketers; rarely do bands live in both realities of being good musicians and being good marketers because to an extent the two inherently contradict each other. Ultimately I think it depends on who you want to support you in your art - its a waste of time Drew complaining that the 16 year olds who prefer the musically bland don't support his band as much as Sammy expecting more musically intellectualised types to celebrate him as some sort of musical voyeur because these people are culturally designated to support the musically and culturally subversive - awkward time signatures, coffees with stupid names, bad sweaters et al. I think the irony of most of this is that often people say they don't have a scene or image but they do and it's one based on that element of denial. You are as much defined by the things you don't do as those you do. The joy of music is that there is something for everybody - but very few bands get to have their cake and eat it in regards to being both underground and overground heroes.
Nuno Filipe
You talkin' to me?
Yeah man, the biography is great but I read only half of the book but it´s quite big also. But it´s a great read because you can also learn something from his story.
People here do not understand you because this is a metal community and first comes the feelings that the song transmits to you and then and only after the aesthetic of the band. The thing is that you showed in some posts the opposite.
I remember also you giving some advices to drew band, shorter songs and again much more cohesion about their visual. Lets see something, they after all play post rock/metal so nobody is expecting song with 3 minutes with a standard verse/chorus/verse/chorus. Your advices are not bad, not at all but very biased from your musical preferences. I think you dont take at all the context of the things. But I can agree that if someone want to hit the mainstream the visual it´s of a big importance but that doesnt mean that you cant reach to a lot of people without become some kind of metrosexual. You have a band that doesnt seem to bother a lot with their visual and their are very well know in the post rock scene. It´s God Is An Astronaut, they dont have a singer neither a badass look but they are in music biz touring from time to time.
Objectively speaking, this not a good song even for the style. They're young though; they can grow.
EDIT: Their other songs/live videos show that they can execute the genre decently. It sounds like they chose the wrong song. Regardless if I like the genre or not, it's pretty cool that they pull the crowds they do, and they're just kids having fun.
EDIT: Their other songs/live videos show that they can execute the genre decently. It sounds like they chose the wrong song. Regardless if I like the genre or not, it's pretty cool that they pull the crowds they do, and they're just kids having fun.
smy1
Member
Öwen;10613027 said:
I don't expect that at all. What is a musical voyeur?
Öwen;10613027 said:
Exactly! Just because the example here is Yolo doesn't mean it can't be adjusted to ANY genre. Half the time a band's marketing consists of making sure they appeal to the people who don't want to belong to any genre.
Öwen;10613027 said:
Very true!
smy1
Member
Yes. I've said that I agree with that on a number of occasions.
It all depends on what people want. But as Öwen says absolutely right: band's fool themselves into believing that even in their weird niche scene they can exist without thinking about their presentation.
I mean, of course they can exist, but rarely thrive. And those that thrive either got lucky or they are lying about their marketing efforts (99,9%).
~BURNY~
Member
- Apr 20, 2005
- 5,091
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LeSedna
Mat or Mateo
I don't find sami's comments bashing or any aggressive. He gets straight to the point, which can seem harsh when taken personally but even though I don't agree necessarily with 100% of what he expresses, I think for the most part he gives pretty decent advices. Then it's up to a band to apply the mechanics to itself, but then as he says you can't complain if you don't get a big crowd following you because except if you're exceptionaly good/lucky (lucky as in you created your band at the right place at the right time - many people theorized Mozart wouldn't have been famous if he wasn't in vienna at the right decade) the aesthetics do matter more than people think. Most people do give credit to visual, would it be conscious or not. Even non mainstream bands do take their visuals seriously, sometimes, unconsciously even.
In the case of YOLO, he's right, they are doing it well, for what they seek. Regardless of the fact I despise their music for subjective reasons, I agree and in a way I am jealous at their age I couldn't live something cool like this, because that's what appears cool to them and in their own set of rules and subjectivity, they are having fun.
That said, kill it with fire !
In the case of YOLO, he's right, they are doing it well, for what they seek. Regardless of the fact I despise their music for subjective reasons, I agree and in a way I am jealous at their age I couldn't live something cool like this, because that's what appears cool to them and in their own set of rules and subjectivity, they are having fun.
That said, kill it with fire !
Line666
Fendurr
- Sep 2, 2006
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I did my usual, mashed adjectives together and used the completely wrong french term; I was looking for avant-garde pioneer and ended up describing the thought process of someone who enjoys one of your videos instead.
smy1
Member
Or even better (to quote Buckminster Fuller):
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
Make something that's better/cooler/faster/stronger/fresher so that the stuff you hate becomes pointless
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
Make something that's better/cooler/faster/stronger/fresher so that the stuff you hate becomes pointless
just about anything has to be faster than that one singer
drew_drummer
Dancefap
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Actually he insulted the way I specifically looked - saying I was the odd one out or some bullshit like that, and then he threw in a bunch of completely subjective thoughts on our musical style, and pretended like they were solid criticisms that everyone would share.
Emphasis mine, because I think it is pretty much key. Pretending that there is a set of rules or guidelines to follow to promote your work is silly. There is no fixed path anymore, and in fact I doubt there ever was. As far as the aesthetic of what you create goes, not everyone is going to dig it. Some people fucking LOVE long songs that morph and transition from one concept to another - I happen to be one of those people. To me, saying effectively "write shorter songs" is tantamount to compromising MY musical ideas and MY musical goals.
And it's stupid to do that. I know there is an audience out there for our stuff, I see it every single day.
It's always been darwinism, the strong survive and the weak fall away and die. You get assholes buying Facebook likes to make themselves seem more important. You get shysters out to make a buck, by fitting themselves into a predefined mould that appeals to a "demographic" or a "scene".
I have absolutely no fucking time for those people. I think they're weak, and pathetic. If they cannot stand on their own two feet, and let their work speak for themselves, then they can just go and suck an aids dick as far as I care.
Ultimately, I've never said anything like what I've said in this thread before, not to Sami and not to anyone on this forum. Because I know that my tastes are not the correct and holy and right way to see things. It's just one mans perspective amongst many.
But Sami's comment brushed me up the wrong way, and particularly considering that it isn't the first time he has done it.
CubanDude
not really cuban
- Nov 17, 2010
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Tbh, I actually don't understand your problem, drew. IIRC you complained about your band not getting enough attention. On the other hand you wanna make the music you want to. Not necessarily a perfect fit if your taste in music isn't mainstream music. So you gotta decide what you wanna have. If you want to be popular, Sami is absolutely right. The few bands you're referring to, which are quite sucessful although they make complex music, are the exception to the rule. And they are because they're so good at it, that their complex songs still feel cohesive. I.e. take Pain of Salvation. What this dudes did back on One Hour By The Concrete Lake and Perfect Element I is OUTSTANDING songwriting, their talent is beyond belief. And although they were that good, they never became that popular. Think about it (and while you do that, have a Snickers).
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
^ yes but bands like Opeth, Type O, My Dying Bride, etc all managed their rise in popularity by doing the exact opposite as what Sami says
not really taking a side here .. i think he makes some valid points although I think they're only valid in the confines of about 25% of music
not really taking a side here .. i think he makes some valid points although I think they're only valid in the confines of about 25% of music
CubanDude
not really cuban
- Nov 17, 2010
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They still did good marketing tho. And all this bands have something outstanding, Opeth have Akerfeldt, one of the best songwriters in the metal genre and Type O had the unique voice of Peter Steele (+ songs like Black No. 1 or Christian Woman are, after all, pretty simple). I just think he's overreacting here. There's nothing wrong with doing it your way. Even the Backstreet Boys did it ( 
). But it diminishes your chance of having commercial success.
Btw, I'm also not taking a side.
). But it diminishes your chance of having commercial success.Btw, I'm also not taking a side.
