YOLOCORE.

I think in two years you will think: "Why the hell did I spend so much time defending that crappy yolocore band!" :p

The only reason I write here is because a very smart person once told me that writing for other people is often actually only an explanation for oneself - which helps focus my own thoughts on some matters.

But I don't know. Music isn't just a product to a lot of us. To me music isn't about the number of likes or fans or sales.
It's not that only crap can be successful. Music should be more than just a fashion. There IS music out there that stands the test of time, and this one certainly will not.

You are correct with both:

a) music isn't about sales or promo if you don't want it to be (but then you have no right to complain about "lack of exposure")

b) YOLO will definitely not stand the test of time. I don't think anyone questions that :)
 
a) music isn't about sales or promo if you don't want it to be (but then you have no right to complain about "lack of exposure")

Just playing devils advocate a bit:

Doesn't an overemphasis on marketing by some (i.e. you) actively steal market share from those who care more about the actual art itself?
 
The song is bad IMO. I don't care how many chords it has, copies it sells (or doesn't), or whether you guys want to bang members of the band. My gut reaction is "this is terrible." If I try to justify that opinion with production or music school reasons I'll likely show myself to be a hypocrite when I consider songs I love that share those "flaws." "Writing About Music is Like Dancing About Architecture" after all.

FWIW, Sammy has said he like to play the provocateur to keep himself at the top of peoples minds. That's part of his business strategy and probably why he slipped his own video into the discussion (and Drew's puckered butt hole). Consider that before you get too emotionally invested in an argument.

+1 to everything, especially the puckered butt hole. Best post in this thread.
 
My Butthole may be puckered, but it's certainly waiting for the right man/woman/dog/thing ... unlike some I could mention, who are quite willing to splash out any old turd and call it music in the hopes of entertaining fuckwits and screwing them out of their hard earned cash.
 
I am not sure that that is even true. At what point does music become "simple"? Is G, D, Am too simple as a progression? For John Petrucci everything Tool play is probably supersimple. Is "Stinkfist" by Tool a better song than "Call Me Maybe" by Carly Rae Jepsen? Who spent more time making their respective song? Tool? Or the team around CRJ? Does it matter who spent more time? Last weekend I made a dubstep-inspired album (!) of 8 (!!!) songs in 2 days. Just to piss off haters who bitch about everything. Is that album my favorite album? No. Is it the worst album ever made, cause it's made from scratch in 2 days? Definitely not.

I understand your general statement, but I never understood why music that is simple and possibly made only for commercial reasons is deemed "bad"? In the end it doesn't make a difference if some 15year-old girl dances to a pop-song in the bathroom while getting ready to go out on her first date or some 44year-old cries because he is listening to a complicated prog-metal song that gives him goosebumps. As long as someone is affected emotionally, then a song is good.

No, I've been through that discussion allready, I'm not trying to judge the quality of music based on how many chords there are, how good the progression is, how much time spent on writing etc.
Hell, most of the songs I still like the most after having played them a hundred times, are those which took the least time to write.
So it's not about that for me. I wouldn't listen to a lot of the stuff I listen to if it was that way, and had to listen to a lot of stuff that I don't touch from afar.

Stuff that is designed to go at number one is considered bad music for me, cause of the reason why it was created in the first place.
Not saying you can't dig some of these songs, but I know people who only have that kind of stuff running as background noise (wouldn't say they listen to it). And I just think that this is sad for them, cause it's a loss on their end. But I understand if they don't value it the way I do.
Propably the same discussion is going on with me, when I say I don't want to go skydiving :lol:
So it's just a general "what a shame" thought of mine. That a lot of people make a lot more money with that, than other guys who I think would deserve it more is a shame for me too.

Maybe I'm also not sensitive enough to be emotionally touched by a lot of pop songs :lol:
I do however see the sense behind that statement.

Just a pitty that this kind of music takes away attention/place from stuff that would maybe also fit for the "easier" kind of audience, and isn't designed to be in the ears of everyone.
Cause whenever I turn on the radio I get the feeling I'm beeing forced to like the same 8 songs, cause it's all you get to hear in an hour between commercials.
But that's another story I guess.

I didn't think I was bashing anyone. I was criticizing a general demeanor, just like people criticize that I think "too strategically". I might be wrong, they might be right. In those situations I usually say: "Don't get mad unless I'm talking about you!" :D
Then it had to be your wording, that made it come across in different way than how you meant it.




Just for the record, my gut reaction wasn't even "this is terrible". It was just "meh, whatever"...there has allready been way worse in the near past.
Which is kinda sad, actually :lol:
 
I agree.



I am not sure that that is even true. At what point does music become "simple"? Is G, D, Am too simple as a progression? For John Petrucci everything Tool play is probably supersimple. Is "Stinkfist" by Tool a better song than "Call Me Maybe" by Carly Rae Jepsen? Who spent more time making their respective song? Tool? Or the team around CRJ? Does it matter who spent more time? Last weekend I made a dubstep-inspired album (!) of 8 (!!!) songs in 2 days. Just to piss off haters who bitch about everything. Is that album my favorite album? No. Is it the worst album ever made, cause it's made from scratch in 2 days? Definitely not.

I understand your general statement, but I never understood why music that is simple and possibly made only for commercial reasons is deemed "bad"? In the end it doesn't make a difference if some 15year-old girl dances to a pop-song in the bathroom while getting ready to go out on her first date or some 44year-old cries because he is listening to a complicated prog-metal song that gives him goosebumps. As long as someone is affected emotionally, then a song is good.



I didn't think I was bashing anyone. I was criticizing a general demeanor, just like people criticize that I think "too strategically". I might be wrong, they might be right. In those situations I usually say: "Don't get mad unless I'm talking about you!" :D

Amen brother!!!

Equating simplicity in music automatically to something less than creative or artistic is just a personal bias coming to the surface - nothing based in fact most certainly. As you noted - if music evokes an emotional response, that's all that matters. All music is meant to be enjoyed by some portion of a population, nothing more nothing less.

As for music created for commercial purposes being somehow inherently a bad thing seems - I'm sorry for being this condescending - just plain stupid. We all hope the music we enjoy is popular enough that people keep creating it and the targeted audience keeps consuming it - call it a circle of life in a musical sense

If someone takes a chance at putting their music out for both praise and criticism, then more power to them - I wish them all the success they are capable of obtaining. Why would I wish otherwise?

These are the very same reasons while you'll never see me calling any music I like "a guilty pleasure"; I'm never guilty or ashamed of any artist/music I enjoy - why would I be?

Like you referenced - a young girl rocking out in her bedroom to Taylor Switft (who has probably exponentially created a ton of budding female guitarists/songwriters) is just as valid as me, as a 16 year old, picking up a guitar for the first time and thrashing away while listening to Exciter's Heavy Metal Maniac in 1983 - nope it wasn't Maiden, Priest, or Metallica (all with great releases around that time), it was the chainsaw guitar of John Ricci - man did they strike an emotional chord with me.

PS - I've yet to view the first page of this thread so I have no idea what the thread is referencing - just the general theme to the post I responded to. ;)
 
Regarding my comments: I NEVER said it's too simple. I said it's uninspired, which is something completely different.
 
Regarding my comments: I NEVER said it's too simple. I said it's uninspired, which is something completely different.

Applicable to a vast majority of music in my personal opinion. Unfortunately it's still just a personal opinion with no verifiable data to support it, just me being subjective and all that.

PS - still have not read the first page so still just general comments ;)
 
Just playing devils advocate a bit:

Doesn't an overemphasis on marketing by some (i.e. you) actively steal market share from those who care more about the actual art itself?

Yes. But that's always been the case. In the middle ages not the best singer was the bard at the king's party, but the one with the best marketing/promotion/influence. It's no different now, except for the fact that the "poor musicians" have become forced to think about it a lot more now if they want to compete with the 104758354 other bands in their town.

Emphasizing art is important: if you don't make the music you want to make then you are screwed. Stop doing that! Make the art you wanna make, I said it before! If you can't stand behind your music all of the "band thing" will become a horrible time for you. It's an illusion that great artists don't do anything but "their art" - most of the time they do other things (like practice, interviews, travelling) that are no fun - cause great art isn't made at a whim.

Whenever you read biographies of bands from the 60s/70s/80s there's always a period where they spent weeks before a gig putting up posters, handing out flyers, where they styled themselves to get an image going and where they added stuff to the stage show to make it more over the top and memorable (all marketing). And then at some point they get signed and really take off - not because the songs/thea rt got better, but because they got a huge marketing machinery (namely a major label) whcih helped them to elevate their game.

I actually don't overemphasize marketing. I think I am merely defining it as necessary to reach a larger audience. And I'm making the statement that it is completely naive if you think having a CD, a bandpic, a FB page and a blog is "marketing". It's the bare minimum to be able to call yourself a band today (and most people would actually call this a "MySpace/Facebook-Band"). That's where I think the difference in perception lies between me and many people who commented here.

It's strange to me that so many people here think good marketing takes away from art, when it only announces and promotes its existence. Most people in this thread have said "YOLO is crap because I say so and no marketing in this world will make them great!" - which might be true. But so far 3/4 of the responses to my posts have basically been "I don't wanna think about it, let me play my guitar!" ...

... instead of thinking about what the same "overemphasized" marketing principles (applied properly and within context) could do to those people's bands/studios/projects.
 
Are you still banging on about this bullshit??

I can name at least twenty "Facebook-bands" that I'd rather listen to than your weak-as-piss fake-as-fuck bullshit. The fact you have found an angle, an image, a haircut, and a way to promote your shitty synth-pop means literally fuck all to me. Your marketing is not going to make anyone think your stuff is good, regardless of how clever you do it. People think something is good, and they tune into it.. this is the core fundamental of advertising and marketing. If you don't have a quality product (in the eyes of your audience) then no amount of jibber-jabber is going to get them interested.

You came into this thread and basically said that the music made by the people on this forum isn't as good as YOLO, because YOLO "ticks all the right boxes."

It's basically Paramore with a chubby hispanic singer and some "growls". So I don't understand all the hate.

This video/song is way "better" than what 99% of all bands here on this board produce (oh, now I understand all the envy ... I mean ... dislike! ). And even though I don't dig the looks of the singer at all, she'll score huge in the "average girl" and "regular metaldude" demographics and probably even higher in the local hispanic Cali teenage-scene.

This band and video is actually so well "designed" that it's fun for me to listen/watch, because someone did everything right. And 20k views in 2 weeks isn't too bad for a start.

I don't fucking listen to box-tickers. I fucking listen to artists. People who have the testicular fortitude to just follow their own path, and who do not have to use words like "demographic" and "scene" to make themselves feel like they're doing the right thing.

I will gauran-fucking-tee you that Godspeed You! Black Emperor, ISIS, TOOL, John Frusciante, and a whole plethora of others, don't have to resort to demographic-theory in order to "design" their music.
 
Maybe I'm also not sensitive enough to be emotionally touched by a lot of pop songs :lol:

I think it's a matter of context. The last time I was really emotionally upset about something I noticed that an R&B song on the radio affected me. I never liked that (Beyonce) song before and I'll probably won't like it when I hear it in the future.

It was still the right song at the right time - which is probably exactly what the producer intended :)
 
Uhm, let's say that yolo song is like a cheesburger from mcdonalds. Look pretty, is marketed wisely, it's tasty (catchy, if you will), and some teenager is going to stuff their face with it. But it's a far stretch to call it good food.

I agree absolutely with everything you wrote and I have nothing against marketing your work, at the same time on a personal level my guts tell me that's it's a terrible song.
 
Uhm, let's say that yolo song is like a cheesburger from mcdonalds. Look pretty, is marketed wisely, it's tasty (catchy, if you will), and some teenager is going to stuff their face with it. But it's a far stretch to call it good food.

I agree absolutely with everything you wrote and I have nothing against marketing your work, at the same time on a personal level my guts tell me that's it's a terrible song.

Yea, I agree. I wouldn't even call it a good song - and I don't think I ever did.