You "wtf" you lose

What's the difference between what they do in that video and what schools do otherwise? Irony: Ken Ham looks a lot like the chimp in the first slides.

I don't think it's not propaganda just because it happens in a school vs in a church.
 
I was about to say that a good portion of public school teachers actually believe what they're saying, but so do these goons.

There's not really much of a difference at all, in terms of teaching allegiance to the government. I remember getting the "Good Citizen Award" and other stuff like that in elementary school. I don't think that was necessarily a big deal though. What is a big deal is schools not teaching children how to think for themselves, but that's a structural problem with the administration system. Structural problems of which are induced by the ways schools are funded. It would be much better if the teachers were empowered and didn't have a huge bureaucracy hanging over their heads. I would think that just having the principal to answer to should be sufficient. Since when did principals turn into the equivalent of a store manager just relaying messages from corporate to the shift leaders (teachers) anyways?
 
What's the difference between what they do in that video and what schools do otherwise? Irony: Ken Ham looks a lot like the chimp in the first slides.

I don't think it's not propaganda just because it happens in a school vs in a church.

I was about to say that a good portion of public school teachers actually believe what they're saying, but so do these goons.

There's not really much of a difference at all, in terms of teaching allegiance to the government. I remember getting the "Good Citizen Award" and other stuff like that in elementary school. I don't think that was necessarily a big deal though. What is a big deal is schools not teaching children how to think for themselves, but that's a structural problem with the administration system. Structural problems of which are induced by the ways schools are funded. It would be much better if the teachers were empowered and didn't have a huge bureaucracy hanging over their heads. I would think that just having the principal to answer to should be sufficient. Since when did principals turn into the equivalent of a store manager just relaying messages from corporate to the shift leaders (teachers) anyways?

good...
good...
2 more years of making this norm and truth in USA... and then give them all guns.
excellent...
 
What's the difference between schools teaching their students obedience/allegiance to government and parents teaching their children obedience/allegiance to them?

Education is an institution of practicality; it isn't a government conspiracy to brainwash its citizens. It's merely an effect of hegemony and ideology penetrating various cultural institutions. If we're obsessing over the indoctrination of our children, then we should consider the fact that the good manners and obedience that we teach and instill into them is no less innocuous than that which our educational institutions instills into them.
 
First of all, education is not an institution. We have institutions that purportedly deal in education. There is a difference, even if semantic in the context of this page. The very idea of isolating education is part of the problematic root of our cultural/social approach to learning, creating a subconscious stigma which then has it's ocean of intended and unintended consequences.

As far as the difference between government and parental aims, there is a vast difference in the relationship. This comparison is quite akin to pointing out that rape and lovemaking are quite equally sex. Government gives absolutely nothing it has not taken. On the contrary, at a bare minimum the mother has sacrificed her body for nine months of hardship and some few or many hours of agony merely to bring the child into existence. The only interest of government in it's subjects is production for the material benefit of the government. While parental aspirations could certainly devolve to that level, it's not commonly sought and even less possible to realize (especially in the most current economic era).

There is a reason homeschooled children constantly outperform their peer groups in other learning "institutions" (and prior to the internet, almost universally with "outdated" textbooks/"information", or even completely lacking relative to a "school".) Relationship. Goals. Approach.

The western institutions of lower learning were systemically created by prior churches, governments, and social scientists to yield obedient drones, not functioning individuals. One thing I find interesting is the collision in more modern times of the aims of the religious devout with the state devout. Both produce a pupil relatively independent of the other faction, yet lacking actual independence of faculties. However, when comparing performance in core subjects, the religious subsets of homeschoolers still generally outperform their non-homeschooled peers except when it comes to what I will try to separate from the whole of science as "science history", meaning mainly the evolutionary interpretation of fossil and other data. And not surprising, since you can't regurgitate something not taught.

On the bright side, I believe education as we have known it in the last 200 years is transforming, if not more preferably dying. Learning must be a lifestyle, not something we stuff like bodies into mausoleums called "schools".
 
That's a good response, most of which I agree with. Education should be something that is diffuse throughout cultural institutions and various social spaces, but unfortunately it's relegated to specific sites.

I have a question though:

The western institutions of lower learning were systemically created by prior churches, governments, and social scientists to yield obedient drones, not functioning individuals.

Is it not the case that a functioning member of a society is obedient to that society? I'm not condoning teaching obedience or that obedience is ultimately better; but I'm suggesting that sharply dividing along these lines misplaces the problem because in a culture as heavily politicized and legalized as ours, functioning individuals are obedient individuals. The problem isn't in our education; rather, it's in the fact that the culture as a whole guarantees safety and functionality provided that everyone obeys.

You're right to point out that the relationships of parents/children and state/students are different. But education is only realized through institutions, whether they be the state, the private school, or the family. The efficacy of each of these may be debated, but they all qualify as institutional modes of education that all demand obedience. The differences between them doesn't matter as much in this effect. Obedience, no matter the form it takes or the way in which it's indoctrinated, must always be questioned. Parents like to think they possess some greater degree of "obedience demand"; but if we're challenging the obedience taught by the state, then we have to acknowledge that obedience taught by parents is just as objectionable.

You might say that not all education must be institutionalized: someone might hypothetically isolate themselves in the wild and teach themselves to survive. But I would suggest that this isn't "education." It's the same difference between education and learning that exists between knowledge and truth; education and knowledge are sanctioned by the overriding ideological programs and institutions, and their content is restricted in this way. Knowledge paradigms can change, but they do so gradually so that the institutions can keep up. Learning is more akin to truth, which is not institutionalized or ideological, but rather persists more as an individual relationship to the world and a means by which traditional and hierarchical organizations of knowledge can be challenged. To use Alain Badiou's phrasing, truth "interpolates itself into the continuity of the 'there is'."
 
Good parents (and extending to good teachers in general) do not try and create obedient adult drones. Parents need unquestioning obedience when the primary concerns for young children are not getting run over, breaking their neck, or other irreparable incidents. While part of the early learning process, it should only be a bridge to get them safely alive into ages where freedom of thought can be fostered.
 
8SMY9XN.jpg