$15 an hour for recording in a half assed sound treated BEDROOM

Seeing the opinion on all of this is amazing to me, you wonder why its so hard to break out of the "local scene" and into the big time. We have spent years busting our ass and honing our craft for what? To allow some kid with a M-Box and a good ear to cut our rates in half? Is Jarkko the only one intelligent enough here to see the problem?

3 weeks ago I had no close my privately owned studio due to being undercut by every other engineer in town with their bedroom studio. My studio didn't close due to lack of quality, as a matter of fact I have the best quality in town. You guys can talk all the shit you like about me and my sound, so its not your thing, and that's fine, but my sound is my sound and many people from this forum have come to me asking for me to work on their shit (why I am trying to defend myself on this point I have no fucking clue).

I have come to realize, editing out guitar squueks, quantizing drums, and sample replacing everything has no soul. When I get asked to do it I do it, but ill be god damned if I am going to spend 80 hours editing everything for $15 an hour.

I WAS a small business owner till 3 weeks ago, economy, over inflation on the pricing of rental properties, and contsant rising of the cost of electricity in this town coupled with kids with an MBox and Protools charging $15 an hour for recording have put NUMEROUS studios in this town out of business. How as an engineer / producer who wants to have their own business able to stay in business and compete with this? These kids program drums, use a pod or if they care they use a real mic'd amp. Buy an SM7 and call them selves a professional studio. The local bands eat it up run there and get "decent" quality cause they edit shit together and it sounds ok. Its not very difficult to get sounds today using modern gear, Slate / Metal Foundry make drums a snap, Its pretty much impossible to make a 5150 sound bad. So where does someone who's not quite working on major label shit, and too pricey for the local scene supposed to fit?

How do you push past that pinnacle. Quality? Well for those of you who have bothered to listen to the things I have done know that's not the problem.

So I will rephrase my previous rant by saying, I agree everyone needs to start somewhere, but when your good enough to start taking business away from the bigger studios in town, maybe its time to realize you should be charging more for your work, and not de-valuing the industry.

In addition to that where has the art gone? Where is the pride in micing up a real kit and getting amazing drum sounds by knowing HOW to tune them, run them though some killer analog preamps and getting it all right with good EQ's Comps and all that Jazz. $15 an hour over the course of 10 hour day makes it impossible to afford buying anything decent, or even beyond prosumer level, and not enough to make a living after overhead.
 
I'm not taking sides here but are we just seeking empathy? What gives us the right to tell a person what they should or should not do? If they lived on us, yeh.

Edit: Bands who dig you would come to you. It's all about their satisfaction. If they're happy with a bedroom producer I guess the band needs better ears? :err:
 
Welcome to today. It's just the way shit is. You're in the wrong business. The mighty dollar is king and most people don't give a shit about "de-valuing the industry" so long as they're getting paid. It sucks but you gotta suck it up.
 
At a certain point you have to wonder... if you hadn't spent so much fucking time trollbaiting NSGUITAR, maybe you wouldn't have been in this position?
 
Lets just remember also guys, that even if you are just getting by, you are still doing what you love and wouldn't want to be doing anything else in the world. If that's not worth it than maybe you should consider a new career. Just remember there are people in every industry who are now working for $9 an hour downstocking groceries. Its just the way it is
 
So where does someone who's not quite working on major label shit, and too pricey for the local scene supposed to fit?
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There is a term for this, but I can't think of what it is, but it happens in EVERY business. The middle ground between SUPER CHEAP and SUPER EXPENSIVE is often neglected.
 
ratsapprentice said:
From what you're saying, you opened up a business when there was not enough demand for your service to sustain itself.
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Yes, sometimes that is the unfortunare reality all business owners must face. Quality, dedication, hard work, sometimes none of it matter if the market isn't there.

On topic, I would say that most adults (21+) who consider themselves in a "serious" band wouldn't be caught dead in a 10$ a song bedroom studio. At least that's the climate around here IDK.
 
Sloan said:
The middle ground between SUPER CHEAP and SUPER EXPENSIVE is often neglected.
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+1

That's is why it is important to don't get yourself carried away with unnecessary expenses.

I do have a job on the side which as kept me floating when i don't have bands in the studio. People also tend to just throw themselfs out there. I can't even imagine the stomach ache have to make profit from day 1.

Be realistic about your business and let it take time.
 
drew_drummer said:
At a certain point you have to wonder... if you hadn't spent so much fucking time trollbaiting NSGUITAR, maybe you wouldn't have been in this position?
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Comments like this on a serious subject are not needed. It just really shows ignorance and disdain. You may dislike me, but this has more to do with the market / industry then whether you like or hate me. I know what your trying to do and it wont work, so save yourself the keystrokes.
 
tilting at windmills man

from my perspective bands do not want to spend money on recording, becouse they know that most likely they will never get it back. With every year passing musicians are getting more and more jaded.

most of the people are in a loosing position: musicians, big studios, small studios, even your diabolical 'bedroom warriors' becouse they are wasting their time with recording shitty music, instead of learning a trait that will give them to oppurtunity to earn money and sustain a comfortable existence in the future :)


the big winners in the game are the audio equipment guys. The dudes in m-audio or focusrite or avid are looking at the sales figures of their entry-level devices and bursting with joy.

it's really time to reconsider a career change 'couse bitching at a group of people on an internet message board has marginal effect on the real world. You can always go around and intimidate them with threats of physical harm, but that's not legal i guess :D

just my 0.02
 
It's easy to pull the "if you're good enough, you'll do great" card. Yeah, Guru might be a talentless ass-hat, I might be a talentless ass-hat as well as a shitload of pros and semi-pros wrestling in the middle leagues on this forum, but I know a couple of major league players who are responsible for some of the albums you guys keep referencing your work to, and they're doing fucking karaoke gigs just to get by because the studio business is in the gutter at the moment.

If you think the business is tough - scratch that, damn near impossible - for only the small businesses, you need to pull your head out of your ass. Around here, you can get a full studio day (a proper studio that is, complete with a proper live room, a decent analogue desk and a fucking pinball machine in the lounge) and a good engineer with an impressive discography for around 150€. And that's INCLUDING TAXES. Likewise, you can get a perfectly fine studio (again, a proper studio, not a damp basement room with a Macbook) lockout for less than 100€ per 24 hours. Again, INCLUDING TAXES. Assuming you have a somewhat realistic picture of the cost of running a recording studio (again, a proper studio), you'll see the problem instantly.

And before you pull the "hey, I own a REAL studio and I'm doing fine" card... Honestly, that's awesome. I fucking salute you, and I can't express how happy I am for you. I'm sure it's well deserved, but unfortunately, a vast majority of your colleagues aren't doing as well.

And no, this isn't a personal rant, as I'm not doing this for a living anymore and I'm turning all requests down at the moment. I won't even launch Pro Tools until December, when I'm going into a really cool studio with a really cool band for the sole reason that it's going to be an enjoyable experience and I genuinely want to be a part of the creation process of the music. This is not a problem for me anymore, nor is it something that even could piss me off because it doesn't affect my income in any way anymore. It's just the way things are. At least around these parts.
 
xFkx said:
most of the people are in a loosing position: musicians, big studios, small studios, even your diabolical 'bedroom warriors' becouse they are wasting their time with recording shitty music, instead of learning a trait that will give them to oppurtunity to earn money and sustain a comfortable existence in the future :)
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xFkx said:
it's really time to reconsider a career change 'couse bitching at a group of people on an internet message board has marginal effect on the real world. You can always go around and intimidate them with threats of physical harm, but that's not legal i guess :D
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I'm just a little bit gay for you right now, you pale blue Polish bastard!
 
Guru, I don't have a problem with bedroom warriors charging $15/hr to record. But you are correct they should not be calling themselves professional. But honestly how dumb do musicians have to be to think they are going to get a "professional" product for $15/hr? Honestly are you sure you even want to work with musicians who are that clueless?
 
guitarguru777 said:
So I will rephrase my previous rant by saying, I agree everyone needs to start somewhere, but when your good enough to start taking business away from the bigger studios in town, maybe its time to realize you should be charging more for your work, and not de-valuing the industry.

In addition to that where has the art gone? Where is the pride in micing up a real kit and getting amazing drum sounds by knowing HOW to tune them, run them though some killer analog preamps and getting it all right with good EQ's Comps and all that Jazz. $15 an hour over the course of 10 hour day makes it impossible to afford buying anything decent, or even beyond prosumer level, and not enough to make a living after overhead.
Click to expand...


i think i have some answers for you.

first, i understand that losing something you put a lot of work into can be frustrating and losing it to something that seems unfair is a little over-the-top.

but when this happens, you really can't pull the "...it's not fair that someone not as talented as me has become more successful than me!" card.

this industry has become rarely about talent and more of, - who you know - who you blow - are your prices extremely low?


just because business is being taken away from you, doesn't mean everyone else in the industry is suffering from the same issue. the industry does not revolve around your methods. if anything you should be revolving your methods around the changing industry. accept that there are people who will work for a lot less than you ...and are probably less skilled than you.

someone told me something a lifetime ago that still rings like a bell in my head almost every time i see things like this surface.

"...never blame the business, blame the customer."

you can't blame a small project studio for stealing work from you because it ultimately comes down to the decision of the customer and how they want to spend their money.

and just because the world is full of people who unwittingly exclude art from their work doesn't mean the art is gone... i mean, anything can be "art" but not everything can be great art.


i am really sorry you had to shit-can the studio... but i can assure you, your overhead just shrank quite a bit. which, according to my calculations (*mumblemumblemumble* carry the 2...) ...you are back in business. ;)
 
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