$15 an hour for recording in a half assed sound treated BEDROOM

Where is the pride in micing up a real kit and getting amazing drum sounds by knowing HOW to tune them, run them though some killer analog preamps and getting it all right with good EQ's Comps and all that Jazz. $15 an hour over the course of 10 hour day makes it impossible to afford buying anything decent, or even beyond prosumer level, and not enough to make a living after overhead.

Dude, people are gigging with PODHD floor pedals and upgraded agile guitars. Especially in the hard rock metal genre. Your never going to sell these people on your expensive signal chains in the current way things are.

The only way to make it work with the way you want it seems to either get ya some label work, only work with retired doctors and lawyers making horse shit music, or somehow be independently rich.

Or more realistically, keep your overhead down to nothing (ala bedroom warrior).
 
Shoot I was talking to Sal Giancarelli (Staind's new drummer) and he is working on some major label crap and doing most of it at his HOUSE.

Staind's last record was mostly tracked at Aaron's place with a HD native rig.

Recording at $120 an hour isn't happening anymore. The house rigs are taking over.
 
Shoot I was talking to Sal Giancarelli (Staind's new drummer) and he is working on some major label crap and doing most of it at his HOUSE.

Staind's last record was mostly tracked at Aaron's place with a HD native rig.

Recording at $120 an hour isn't happening anymore. The house rigs are taking over.

True, at least for now. Perhaps the time of real recording studios will come back one day, though!
 
Comments like this on a serious subject are not needed. It just really shows ignorance and disdain. You may dislike me, but this has more to do with the market / industry then whether you like or hate me. I know what your trying to do and it wont work, so save yourself the keystrokes.

Please understand; you told me to go fuck myself the moment you started this thread. So if you feel any antipathy towards you, it's your own doing.

I'm working a job - sure it isn't McDonalds, but it's a job like any other. I'm doing it to support my musical dreams.

Sure, I'm not charging people piss-poor money to record their shitty metal bands. But I am struggling here to be an independent musician, with a home studio, absolutely zero outboard, and just hopes and dreams.

Your opening gambit read like a massive fuck you to anyone who works on their shit from their home studio. So I'm sorry if it offends you that I thought your drum mixes sounded whack as fuck, and I'm sorry if you think I am ignorant and have disdain for you.... but the bottom line is - check your attitude. It's the reason threads with you involved always turn into bitch fests.
 
Guru, I don't have a problem with bedroom warriors charging $15/hr to record. But you are correct they should not be calling themselves professional. But honestly how dumb do musicians have to be to think they are going to get a "professional" product for $15/hr? Honestly are you sure you even want to work with musicians who are that clueless?

We live in a world where a YouTube video with millions of hits, or being a Kardashian equates to fame/success and your debating the term "professional"? The terms we once thought had meaning no longer do - even reputation can be bought (if one considers Facebook friends and Twitter/Blog followers important or a judgement of popularity/talent).

I get the point and understand why those who feel they deserve something from their hard work and investment would cry foul at the world they find themselves in; one where they worry about the cheap alternative - but work is work and working with "clueless musicians" may just pay the bills if enough of them come calling.

Is it the fact that many consider any job with music to have an "artistic" value that they disregard the hard cold facts of it being a business with all the same problems other business owners encounter daily?

Competition exists at all levels - in all types of businesses, but what competition is relative to your realistic situation is really the bottom line. If you own a restaurant but worry about the guy selling hot dogs from a cart down the street, the problem is not with the quality of his product, it's really with your expectations and vision of your place in that line of work. Possibly your choice of location, or the surrounding demographics, the ones you misjudged in venturing into a business requiring a clientele both willing and capable of paying the price desired and needed to support it.

We all hope to be in a position where we can be selective, where the customers we get will not only pay the bills but also be the pinnacle of professionalism. Unfortunately running a business and running a successful business are different realities; more than a quality product gets factored in.

I guess ultimately it's all just venting about the smack of reality many presumably entrepreneurial types experience when things impacting desires and goals get in the way. I'll admit it's a bit interesting coming to a forum full of people seeking out the exact same goal to complain about what many are seeking to do at the exact same moment they read your complaint.

Think about it for a second - if one searches back through these forums they will find a time when "re-amping" was simply a topic of conversation and then suddenly it became a potential "business opportunity" where anyone with several amps (in some cases maybe just one or two), a re-amping box, some microphones, a preamp and skills with a DAW started offering it as a service - unsure of what to charge, what the community would support.

Did people complain as the reality of this income stream was worked out? Did members running so-called "professional" studios cry afoul as these potential "bedroom warriors" stole business from them? Perhaps they did, but my memories of the time I first started noticing more and more offering it as a service was a general embrace for the idea because it allowed those without the environment/gear a chance at tone they could not get themselves - perhaps the same criteria for someone seeking out the !5$ / per hour engineer. Did musicians who invested in amps/gear suddenly cry afoul because other musicians who did not invest in amps/gear worry that tones once only achievable from expensive solutions were suddenly available to all willing to pay a nominal fee? As business models change - so does the mechanisms by which a successful owner must adapt, seek out differing revenue streams, different pricing structures, possibly a different business - one where the high level of investment might not have to be offset by high rates and a reliable customer base willing to pay them.

It's just the way of the world - no different from practically every other business venture. Some succeed, some fail - sometimes it might be someone else's fault, but many more times one needs to look inward for the reasons.

As always, individual mileage may vary.
 
Please understand; you told me to go fuck myself the moment you started this thread. So if you feel any antipathy towards you, it's your own doing.

I'm working a job - sure it isn't McDonalds, but it's a job like any other. I'm doing it to support my musical dreams.

Sure, I'm not charging people piss-poor money to record their shitty metal bands. But I am struggling here to be an independent musician, with a home studio, absolutely zero outboard, and just hopes and dreams.

Your opening gambit read like a massive fuck you to anyone who works on their shit from their home studio. So I'm sorry if it offends you that I thought your drum mixes sounded whack as fuck, and I'm sorry if you think I am ignorant and have disdain for you.... but the bottom line is - check your attitude. It's the reason threads with you involved always turn into bitch fests.

^ That, big time.

Most of us have normal jobs... real jobs that have nothing to do with music... We are involved in music & recording because we want to be.

I have the gear I have because of smart decisions I've made and working my ass off through life to pay for the things I want to own and want to accomplish. I've managed to gather up a decent amount of nice things after years of learning/buying/selling/trading up/etc., but I make compromises all the time. I pick and choose the things I think will help very carefully. I also drive a shitty, beat up car, and live in an apartment.

Making a good living by doing nothing but recording bands is not a right. It's a luxury.

Do you think Andy Sneap, Jason Suecof, Joey Sturgis, etc. all started off making a killing? Do you think they all began recording simply to make bank? No, of course they didn't. They enjoyed working with music, they were exceptional at what they did, and they stuck with it in order to make a name for themselves. They also got lucky. Not everyone will be that lucky. Not everyone has that talent. Not everyone should expect to make that much money doing this.

Also, look at guys like Ola, Keith Merrow, Misha from Periphery, etc.... They are doing well now, because they made themselves highly visible. They have their own talents and figured out how to make people take notice. They made people stand up and pay attention to them. In the end, that's what every single person must do if their goal is to make good money doing anything at all in the music industry.

I have 0 interest in all these rants from "professionals" on here bitching about being unable to make money doing something that the vast majority of people around the world are unable to do. If you can't find skilled musicians to work with and feel like you are talented enough that you should be more well known, write some quality music yourself, make it sound impressive, and get it out there. Produce some art worth paying attention to or shut the fuck up.
 
We live in a world where a YouTube video with millions of hits, or being a Kardashian equates to fame/success and your debating the term "professional"? The terms we once thought had meaning no longer do - even reputation can be bought (if one considers Facebook friends and Twitter/Blog followers important or a judgement of popularity/talent).

I get the point and understand why those who feel they deserve something from their hard work and investment would cry foul at the world they find themselves in; one where they worry about the cheap alternative - but work is work and working with "clueless musicians" may just pay the bills if enough of them come calling.

Is it the fact that many consider any job with music to have an "artistic" value that they disregard the hard cold facts of it being a business with all the same problems other business owners encounter daily?

Competition exists at all levels - in all types of businesses, but what competition is relative to your realistic situation is really the bottom line. If you own a restaurant but worry about the guy selling hot dogs from a cart down the street, the problem is not with the quality of his product, it's really with your expectations and vision of your place in that line of work. Possibly your choice of location, or the surrounding demographics, the ones you misjudged in venturing into a business requiring a clientele both willing and capable of paying the price desired and needed to support it.

We all hope to be in a position where we can be selective, where the customers we get will not only pay the bills but also be the pinnacle of professionalism. Unfortunately running a business and running a successful business are different realities; more than a quality product gets factored in.

I guess ultimately it's all just venting about the smack of reality many presumably entrepreneurial types experience when things impacting desires and goals get in the way. I'll admit it's a bit interesting coming to a forum full of people seeking out the exact same goal to complain about what many are seeking to do at the exact same moment they read your complaint.

Think about it for a second - if one searches back through these forums they will find a time when "re-amping" was a simply a topic of conversation and then suddenly it became a potential "business opportunity" where anyone with a several amps (in some cases maybe just one or two), a re-amping box, some microphones, a preamp and skills with a DAW started offering it as a service - unsure of what to charge, what the community would support.

Did people complain as the reality of this income stream was worked out? Did members running so-called "professional" studios cry afoul as these potential "bedroom warriors" stole business from them? Perhaps they did, but my memories of the time I first started noticing more and more offering it as a service was a general embrace for the idea because it allowed those without the environment/gear a chance a tone they could not get themselves - perhaps the same criteria for someone seeking out the !5$ / per hour engineer. Did musicians who invested in amps/gear suddenly cry afoul because other musicians who did not invest in amps/gear worry that tones once only achievable from expensive solutions were suddenly available to all willing to pay a nominal fee? As business models change - so does the mechanisms by which a successful owner must adapt, seek out differing revenue streams, different pricing structures, possibly a different business - one where the high level of investment might not have to be offset by high rates and a reliable customer base willing to pay them.

It's just the way of the world - no different from practically every other business venture. Some succeed, some fail - sometimes it might be someone else s fault, but many more time one needs to look inward for the reasons.

As always, individual mileage may vary.

Nice post. I agree with all of that.
 
Also, look at guys like Ola, Keith Merrow, Misha from Periphery, etc.... They are doing well now, because they made themselves highly visible. They have their own talents and figured out how to make people take notice. They made people stand up and pay attention to them. In the end, that's what every single person must do if their goal is to make good money doing anything at all in the music industry.

Exactly! Having talent is only part of the success equation - having the ability to monetize that talent is another completely different beast. I don't doubt that many here have the talent to produce incredible results even with less than perfect environments - I've been hearing these results for myself since joining this forum many years ago. Unfortunately talent and gear only get you so far - hard work can still result in a failed business venture if one can't figure out the capability to turn that talent into reliable income is the other side of the equation.

Several members here have taken the current world we live in with it's new model of getting the word out, looked for original and inventive ways of positioning themselves as valuable resources.

I'm certainly not one as my career is in the somewhat reliable field of IT (I can be a bit risk averse by nature) but I do see some members here as entrepreneurs in this definition:

An entrepreneur searches for change, responds to it and exploits opportunities. Innovation is a specific tool of an entrepreneur hence an effective entrepreneur converts a source into a resource

All credit due to those who can, all credit due to those willing to take the risk as well - but thinking that it's all talent,effort, and resources still does not ensure success - it still requires the right timing, right place, right contacts, right conditions, type components as well.

As always - opinions only, nothing more nothing less.
 
speaking of bedroom warriors, here's one that could probably play circles around most of you guys



this guy did it all at his house, and if you ask me, this is pretty high quality for a "bedroom warrior"
 
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I'm from Bangladesh and $15 an hour is quite a lot here, mainly due to the cost of living. Wanna know how much I charge? $20 for mixing per song, another $20 for recording per day. Tough life! But as long as it gets me dough for strings, equipment, electricity and greens I'm happy.
 
speaking of bedroom warriors, here's one that could probably play circles around most of you guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwJyEUZdJUQ

this guy did it all at his house, and if you ask me, this is pretty high quality for a "bedroom warrior"

if you are talking about the mix. I am not impressed and a 240p youtube video it´s certainly not the best example. I hear clipping all over the song.
 
I see were you're coming from.
It really is a shame that guys working for peanuts devaluate the market for everyone else. Especially cause they won't be able to make a living from it anyway if they keep working like that.
But that's just how it is, and not only in the recording field.

But the situation has changed anyway. You can't compare budged for studio recording in the 80's with budged for recording nowadays.
 
He also tracked everything through the same all-in-one Presonus preamp/mixer. I don't blame his gear necessarily, but is it really ideal to record the drums, bass, guitars, and vocals all through the same mics and pres?

Plenty of pro records have been made in which all tracks were recorded and mixed on the same console. That's just how things used to be done, and in alot of places it still is.
You don't need a different preamp for each instrument before you can make a record.
 
Yeah, I get that. But I mean that this guy uses the same chain for *everything*. Everything recorded has the same sonic characteristics, and not in a good way. It all mushes into the same space because he doesn't know how to use his gear or mix well.
 
Im not a pro (im very far from it) but i get really angry when i see "engineers" where i live with 20 o 30 times more equipment (and more years of experience) delivering fucking amateur/demo mixes and billing much more than i am...
 

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