17 Year Old Shot Near My House

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It's fucking true you ponce. Your writing is full of bullshit claims ("everyone's killing everyone HUR HUR!") and nonsense. Fuck off and die if you're going to continue this lame, tired, and needless argument.

 

[Matt]

It breeds nothing but anger and violence towards your neighbour.

What? How does owning a gun 'breed violence against my neighbor'? That makes no sense.

Look at your country folks, you people are killing yourselves. Doesn't that bug you? (Probably not considering most of you are so selfish and have no sense of community anyway). If guns are really so damn important, if you're really not scared of each each other and you don't intend to kill someone with it, tell me, why do you need it. Don't tell me how wrong I am, ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Are you that much of a fucking moron? I have already stated this, but I'll say it again: you live in a fucking 90% white country. Your former convict island won't even come close the amount of violence we have because of all the different kinds of people living here.

Admit it Efolks, you can't conceive of life in a society without guns, after all, it's all you've ever known. There is only part of this situation that you can truly understand, because as I said earlier (and which you did not address in your wasted post), you are inside the scenario - your visibility of the issue is distorted because you have no exposure to an alternative. It is akin to someone being in a bad relationship and then going to a counsellor. The counsellor is outside the situation, they are able to see the situation for what it is, whereas the person effected has a partial visibility and comprehension.

Bullshit.

So sure, you folks would happily suck cock then lose your fucking redneck gun owning abilties, fine. But think about this - instead of hammering on about how much I'm stupid for being against guns and violence (and meanwhile raising points about how your nation is killing itself, which none of YOU even seem to care about!!!), consider whether losing guns will fix any of these problems in your society, because frankly, given this thread, it seems like none of you even actually care about your country and it's people.

Not having guns will not decrease violence in the US you dumbass. It will only make it harder for people to kill each other, obviously. And fuck off, you god damn faggot. All you are doing is going on and on with you clearly anti-American platform; you really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Hubster]

@ V.V.V.V.V. - Again, like I said, if I am so off-target with my opinion, legitimately respond to the point. Telling me to fuck off doesn't achieve anything, it only proves you have nothing to answer with.

 

[Hubster]

What? How does owning a gun 'breed violence against my neighbor'? That makes no sense.

Read my post again idiot. Tell me what good guns achieve outside of the military and farming.

Not having guns will not decrease violence in the US you dumbass. It will only make it harder for people to kill each other, obviously.

If it is harder for people to kill each other, what does that mean? (You know what 2 plus 2 is, right?)

And I think you need to re-consider what you think you know about Australia - we are certainly not a 90% white country The rest of what you wrote is garbage so I won't respond to it. We're almost as multicultural as the US is now.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

@ V.V.V.V.V. - Again, like I said, if I am so off-target with my opinion, legitimately respond to the point. Telling me to fuck off doesn't achieve anything, it only proves you have nothing to answer with.

No it proves that I am not fucking stupid enough to fall for your half-points and rhetorical bullshit stances. Your opinion is not legitimately backed by any kind of evidence, research, or sources other than your own terribly misinformed stance on the US' gun laws and the concept of freedom. You've already been shot down so I see no need for me to care any further. All I'm saying is that you should shut up if you don't know shit about something before opening your mouth about it because it just makes you look like a douche.

And I think you need to re-consider what you think you know about Australia

fucking irony

 

[Matt]

Read my post again idiot. Tell me what good guns achieve outside of the military and farming.


If it is harder for people to kill each other, what does that mean? (You know what 2 plus 2 is, right?)

And I think you need to re-consider what you think you know about Australia - we are certainly not a 90% white country The rest of what you wrote is garbage so I won't respond to it. We're almost as multicultural as the US is now.

If by multiculteral you mean

Most of the estimated 21 million Australians are descended from colonial-era settlers and post-Federation immigrants from Europe, with around 90% of Australia's population being of European descent.

then yeah I see what you mean. Also, I am not pro-guns; I will likely never own one, and no one I know owns one either. The fact is that owning a weapon is a right that Americans can choose to exercise and it would be a violation of those rights to take it away. And once again, when you have a country full of whites, blacks, mexicans, etc, violence will always be a major problem even with guns made illegal for civilians (and furthermore, even if they are made illegal, they will still exist, putting those without in even more danger than they were in before).


The situation is drastically different here than Asstralia.

And half of your posts are filled with bullshit rambling and insults FYI.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

and furthermore, even if they are made illegal, they will still exist

DING DING.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

and furthermore, even if they are made illegal, they will still exist

DING DING.

 

[Mort Divine]

Hubster, what do you think of hunting?

 

[Matt]

I don't hunt, but sometimes it's neccessary in rural areas to keep the population of deer, etc from exploding. It used to be a major problem here some 20 years ago when there was 100,000 less people.

Though I believe hunting for sport is inhumane.

 

[skeptik]

It's not about an argument at all (an approach something you would know nothing about considering its the only way you yourself know how to answer a post - by turning it into a "I'm right you're wrong" scneario!).

1) What is "it?"
2) I argue stupid points, as do you. Don't fault me for making an argument.
3) I didn't say "I'm right, you're wrong, lolerz!." I said that you haven't even presented an argument and that you're working under false premises.

My views are more about making people like you think, to make you more seriously consider alternatives, not to necessarily force choice of alternatives. Seriously, you all fall for this carrot every time and you don't even know it - think beyond the words you read.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but not making an argument but instead saying "DUDE I TOTALLY HATE GUNS AND YOU SHOULD TOO" is not the same thing as seriously considering alternatives. I didn't "fall" for any "carrot," and in fact that doesn't even make sense. Where did I at all reflect in my post that I am not seriously considering alternatives? What the hell do you even mean by alternatives? Banning guns? We tried that with alcohol.

Oh yeah, and pretending that you're beyond the argument and totally outside the box by saying bullshit phrases like "think beyond the words you read" not only is NOT an argument and is pathetic, but it also makes you look pretentious.

Would probably help if you got out into the real world a bit more often instead of this forum I'm so sorry to say.

Right...now I have no life because you can't come up with an argument to support your beliefs. Great logic there my friend, albeit it has no bearing whatsoever in any capacity on the issue at hand. Of course, you can't even back up the claim one iota because you know jackshit about anybody here, but that's okay, you can do that because this is the internet.

Guns breed anger and violence towards your neighbour.

Horseshit. A gun is a material object. The only anger that it can possibly breed is if your neighbor knows you have a gun and is either 1) jealous or 2) disgusted that you would own one. I'm willing to wager that not only do most people not know whether or not their neighbors have a gun, but they also more than likely don't give a shit either way.

You know what breeds anger and violence? Ideological differences. Not a scrap of metal.

Don't believe me? Turn on your news: look at your country guys, you people are killing yourselves. Doesn't that bug you?

You think people are killing each other because guns exist? Are you sure it's not because they fucking hate each other? Massive misattribution of causes right here, of epic proportions. You're prescribing some sort of mythical power to guns that gives out an aura of negativity, which is just absurd.

(Probably not considering most of you are so selfish and have no sense of community anyway).

Firstly, . Secondly, what the fuck do you even have to base this on? Your little ad hominem attacks are only making your 'argument' look that much more feeble.

If guns are really so damn important, if you're really not scared of each each other and you don't intend to kill someone with it, tell me, why do you need it.

Holy shit, READ MY POST. I clearly said that we DON'T NEED GUNS. WE DO NOT NEED GUNS. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS. THIS POINT IS NOT BEING CONTESTED. But we also don't need alcohol or cigarettes ore swords or daggers or crossbows and hundreds and thousands of other things. Nobody said that guns are important either. Many people here, including myself, are against guns, and want stricter laws prohibiting the wrong people from obtaining guns. But we're not selfish and egotistical enough (as you are) to believe that our own feelings on a particular issue should dictate the way that everybody else has to act on a particular issue (you know, the same way that people who oppose abortion and gay marriage do).

Why the hell should I be scared of a gun? Are you aware that a gun is just an object? A machine? What I would be scared of is a crazy fucking person, and that is regardless of whether or not he has a gun. I'm not afraid of guns. I'm afraid of psychopaths and violent people. And no, guns don't make people violent.

Don't tell me how wrong I am, ANSWER THE QUESTION.

The answer to your question is that nobody has contested the points in the question that you raised. Your question is a strawman. Nobody said that guns or important, let alone "needed."

In a context outside of for example, farming, the military, the is NO REASON for the general populace to need a gun.

DUR. There is NO REASON for the general populace to need alcohol, cigarettes, a fireplace, books, chicken, an X Box, a DVD player, a calendar, or a television either. So what's your point? Should we only possess necessities?

Oh, sorry I'm wrong, there is? Well then, be my guest and tell me how owning a gun provides something positive in general society. What positives does it create as opposed to the horrid stories of wailing siblings and parents at schools losing their children?

Don't you drink? What positives does alcohol bring to the table? What positives do cigarettes bring to the table? What do you get out of these things? And yet you don't think these things should be banned, do you?

Guns are a source of recreation, and, when used properly, evidently, firing one can be an enjoyable pasttime. I have no interest in this myself, but that is irrelevant. Clay pigeon shooting or whatever the hell it is is an Olympic sport, actually. Guns have the same positive as any sport does, so the answer to your question is the same as whatever the answer to this question is: what positive does playing a sport provide? Why the hell do people play sports? What do they get out of it? They could get hurt or even hurt other people. In fact they may become enraged and fight another person on the field. Hell a riot could erupt and hundreds of people could die and result in millions of dollars of damage (soccer anyone)? How could you condone such a thing that is the source of such violence, wanton destruction, and even death?

So go on, tell me how good guns are. I fucking challenge you all, already have and none of you have responded thus far other than telling me I'm wrong.

Actually, you are the one who hasn't presented an argument yet. I've already laid mine out. I would like you to try reading my post and seeing my argument this time before you make this claim again. I don't like guns. However, I support the right of responsible parties to own and use guns for recreational purposes, such as sporting.

Resort to something other than numbers of opinion and provide me with a post that shows some selfless thought.

Resort to something other than numbers of opinion and provide me with a post that shows some selfless thought.

Note how selfish YOU are being. You think that, because you don't like guns, they should be BANNED, so nobody can enjoy them. How is that selfless? And as far as the "nothing but opinion" part, well that's pretty clear, as you have yet to give an argument, so everything you've said is opinion.

Admit it folks, you can't conceive of life in a society without guns, after all, it's all you've ever known.

Uh, what? How the fuck do you propose to actually support this claim? How do you know that I can't "conceive of life in a society without guns?" I've never even seen a fucking gun in my life. I do live in a society without guns as much as you do, i.e. I only see pictures of guns and hear stories about guns. You really love to appeal to knowledge that you can't possibly have, don't you? I can't conceive of life in a society without guns...holy shit, get off of your soap box, reverend.

There is only part of this situation that you can truly understand, because as I said earlier (and which you did not address in your wasted post), you are inside the scenario - your visibility of the issue is distorted because you have no exposure to an alternative.

What the hell am I not understanding? Did I not say that if I could choose (without boot stomping upon the rights of others like a Nazi), I would live in a society without guns? In fact, I would say that I do more or less live in a society without guns. I can't remember ever hearing of a gun related incident in my city. I've never seen a gun in my life. You are the one with the distorted vision because you are so ignorant of the issue and thus have built up an irrational perception of what it's like to have guns around. What am I supposed to address? What makes you think that you are in a better position to argue because you live in Australia? You know there are guns in Australia too, right? Doesn't something like 5% of all adults in Australia OWN a gun? Have you not also had mass killings in Australia? What makes Australians so much better in position to argue the case than an American?

It is akin to someone being in a bad relationship and then going to a counsellor. The counsellor is outside the situation, they are able to see the situation for what it is, whereas the person effected has a partial visibility and comprehension.

You are as much "inside" the situation as I am. Your country has had school shootings too, you know. And what about Port Arthur? Gun violence is a serious issue in Australia too.

So sure, you folks would happily suck cock then lose your fucking redneck gun owning abilties, fine.

Uh...........

What? I would rather "happily suck cock" then lose my "fucking redneck gun owning abilities?" You know you can own a gun too AND suck cock in Australia, right? If you want to suck cock, just say so, you don't have to give up your right to own a gun to do that.

I don't give a shit about MY "gun owning abilities," I give a shit about THE RIGHT to own a gun. If I want to own a gun and I can prove that I am fit to own one and have just cause to own one, why, Hubster, should I not be able to own a gun? Because it's going to breed violence and anger in my soul and make me shoot my neighbor through its mystical witchcraft powers?

But think about this - instead of hammering on about how much I'm stupid for being against guns and violence (and meanwhile raising points about how your nation is killing itself, which none of YOU even seem to care about!!!), consider whether losing guns will fix any of these problems in your society, because frankly, given this thread, it seems like none of you even actually care about your country and it's people.

Enough with your sensationalist, emotivist bullshit already you fucking asshole. I'm sick of your asinine, unsupportable claims that have no god damn basis of rationality whatsoever. America is not "killing itself." Fuck, can you word it any more dramatically you woman? By the way, MOST gun-related violence in the US is via SUICIDE, something that most of these people would probably do regardless of whether or not they had a gun. To say that America is "killing itself" is just absurd and is nothing more than an appeal to emotions. There's no substance to it whatsoever. America isn't "killing itself" any more than any other nation is. Yes, there are more gun-related deaths here, but to phrase it in such a dramatic way is just embarrassing and implies that all gun-related incidents are part of one greater whole.

Oh yeah, and FUCK YOU for making such stupid and downright slanderous and offensive claims such as implying that I don't care that people die as a result of being shot (which is an occurrence in ANY country with guns, such as Australia). You have to be a really low piece of shit to be able to say something like that. That, or really stupid with no sense of logic. Or...wait, maybe you're actually a genius! Okay, professor, show me the logic in your claim, namely

Supporting the rights of responsible individuals to own a gun responsibly = YAY PEOPLE GET SHOT AND DIE

Suggesting that I don't care about people who die because I don't think that a fascistic law banning firearms is such a good idea is just a cheap and disgusting tactic that is rightfully shunned in any respectable forum of debate.

And no, "losing" (aka banning) guns will not solve anything. Firstly, it will subvert citizens' freedom in taking away their fundamental rights. Secondly, firearms can and are regularly obtained illegally. The only significant change that will come about by banning guns would be preventing RESPONSIBLE people from owning guns, and in fact might cause these RESPONSIBLE people to illegally obtain the firearms that they were once granted as a fundamental right (as are Australians). I care about "my country" and "my people" as loosely defined as these concepts are just fine, thank you, and my thinking that they should be able to own a gun provided that they use it responsibly SUPPORTS that assertion.

 

[Matt]

The only plus for guns: they help reduce the surplus population.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Boomerangs mock God's plan.

 

[Ender Rises]

I vote for locking the thread. This argument is going nowhere.

 

[Matt]

I vote for locking the thread. This argument is going nowhere.

I hate when people say this. Leave it open, see where it goes.

 

[Valerie]

I vote for locking the thread. This argument is going nowhere.

Yeah, there's already been a thread about this in the last couple of months anyway.

 

[Ender Rises]

I hate when people say this. Leave it open, see where it goes.

It's going fucking nowhere is where it's going. Hubster won't admit he's wrong and Nec won't back down either. Hub isn't going to come up with any argument that's going to convince anyone of his views. He'd rather post emotional appeal after emotional appeal, which would work in the real world, but not on this forum, since the people here (for the most part) have their brains wired decently.

 

[Matt]

Is it bothering you?

 

[Ender Rises]

Yes. I'd like to be able to participate in this discussion, but Hub is just posting bullshit that doesn't compel me to bother typing out an answer.

 

[skeptik]

1) That's not really grounds for closing the thread.
2) I don't need Hubster thinking I closed the thread so I could get the final word in.