17 Year Old Shot Near My House

[skeptik]

Spoken like a true believer of propaganda.

Look man, I respect you and everything, but you're coming off like a complete moron lately. Your entire post read like a speech from a bunch of protesters picketing an NRA meeting. Asking what is so "cool" about guns (I'm pretty sure nobody said guns were "cool" and I myself have no interest in them whatsoever), buzz words and catch phrases like "batty bravado," "scaremongering of the media," "abusing the concept of freedom" rolleyes:!!!), "locking your own cells and throwing away the keys" (HOLY SHIT, SENSATIONALIST MUCH? Pure propaganda tripe), and of course the appeal of pity. I greatly appreciate that you feel so sorry for me because I'm so ignorant of the fact that guns can kill people due to the fact that I live in the country with the most violent deaths by guns.

Frankly, you're just talking a bunch of emotivist bullshit, without any actual argument whatsoever. Your points range from "there's NOTHING good about guns" to "they're fucked and you DON'T need them," the former being just fucking stupid and untrue, the latter being irrelevant to the issue at hand. I certainly don't feel as if I'm living in a "culture of fear" as a result of handgun deaths (the sensationalist propaganda spread by the current administration regarding terrorism being an entirely separate issue). And, well, I'm American, and you're Australian, so I have a feeling that I have a better understanding of the American culture (or lack thereof LOLZ!!!1) than you.

You're painting the issue as if we're all running around shooting pistols up in the air for shits and giggles, whereas in reality it seems as though the majority here have no interest in possessing a gun at all, but feel that responsible parties should have the right to own and use one responsibly if they so choose. Because banning guns is AN AFFRONT TO FREEDOM, the exact opposite of what you claim.

Learn more about the situation instead of relying on your emotional response to the issue because you just look silly. If I could choose between a "gun" and a "non-gun" state like I could a smoking and non-smoking section in a restaurant, I would prefer to live in an area with no guns. But that doesn't mean that I have the right to stop everyone from owning a gun any more than I have the right to stop women from having abortions or gay couples from getting married.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Very well said, as usual.

 

[fates warning 666]

ahaha i just read hubsters posts now im definitely on whatever side hes not on. i have an inkling thats the pro-gun side. well that's the side i was on anyway. 17 year olds suck and guns are cool. plus youve got to have a few premature deaths around the place, keeps things interesting

people who care about issues like gun control or racism are fucking tools

 

[King Richard]

I read that as "base" which I took to mean points supporting my view

Sorries.

Rip his stinkin ballssss off!

fjastijatjasiasgnag lots of stuff

It was a bit wordy, be sure to work on that.

ahaha i just read hubsters posts now im definitely on whatever side hes not on. i have an inkling thats the pro-gun side. well that's the side i was on anyway. 17 year olds suck and guns are cool. plus youve got to have a few premature deaths around the place, keeps things interesting

people who care about issues like gun control or racism are fucking tools

 

[Thoth-Amon]

It was a bit wordy, be sure to work on that.

 

[Ender Rises]

ahaha i just read hubsters posts now im definitely on whatever side hes not on. i have an inkling thats the pro-gun side. well that's the side i was on anyway. 17 year olds suck and guns are cool. plus youve got to have a few premature deaths around the place, keeps things interesting

people who care about issues like gun control or racism are fucking tools

:zombie:

 

[Thoth-Amon]

:zombie:

 

[Ender Rises]

That was the stupidest thing I've read all day.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I'd like to know what the gun control policies are like in other countries that people represent here. I know in many places guns are banned, but I don't know much about gun policies elsewhere and would be interested in hearing how the gun control laws are enforced there.

In Australia they're insanely hard to get, you can't buy them for self-defense at all, and you have to wait a month to get one (once you've proven that you're using it for sport or pest control etc. and they've done significant background checks). Basically not many civilians here have guns here other than farmers and hunters.

The point is to illustrate that there are many other things that can easily take a human life that don't have this paranoidal stigma attached to it. What about swords? I have a katana, and if I so chose, I could go slay someone walking on the sidewalk out in front of my apartment, just as easily as I could shoot them. I've been taught basic sword attacks and defenses, but imagine someone with a few years of formal training?

Can you kill someone with a katana from across the street? Can you carry a katana around in your pocket? No, you can't. So therefore it isn't as easy to kill someone with a katana. If I had a gun and you had your katana I'm betting I'd probably win.

Target shooting is a hobby just like doing sports, playing video games, etc. I don't know why you people can't accept that. I don't see anyone objecting to people taking martial arts classes, do you?

I don't have a problem with target shooting. It exists here without any problems. It's the "owning a gun for self defense" thing that scares me. Then you've got a whole lot of people grabbing their guns whenever there's trouble.

I don't know any statistics, but I'm sure the number of responsible gun owners outweighs the number of mentally unstable fools who murder people.

Of course it does, but that's totally beside the point. If most people are ok using a gun responsibly, should we forget about the people who aren't? This is why we have to have things like OH&S at work. Risk assessment and prevention is a necessity in this world, and annoying blanket rules exist for a reason (unfortunately for those of us who aren't mentally incompetent).

 

[skeptik]

Okay, so let's ban everything that people don't use responsibly, such as alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, television, radio, phones, the internet...hell, information itself.

 

[Ender Rises]

There will always be people who don't use guns safely, and the idea of using guns as self defense is to defend yourself from those people. It's a Constitutional right over here and a lot of people resent the hell out of people trying to remove that right, even if they never invoke it.

 

[Valerie]

In Australia they're insanely hard to get, you can't buy them for self-defense at all, and you have to wait a month to get one (once you've proven that you're using it for sport or pest control etc. and they've done significant background checks). Basically not many civilians here have guns here other than farmers and hunters.

What about antique/relic guns, like from World War 2?

Can you kill someone with a katana from across the street? Can you carry a katana around in your pocket? No, you can't. So therefore it isn't as easy to kill someone with a katana. If I had a gun and you had your katana I'm betting I'd probably win.

Maybe if I threw it

That scenario would depend on how far away I was from you, how good your aim is, how fast you can pull the trigger, how fast I can run, how agile I am at instantly changing direction, how fast your reflexes are, my tolerance for pain, the number of rounds in your gun, and the caliber of gun you're using. Depending on all these variables, there's still a chance I can kill you.

I don't have a problem with target shooting. It exists here without any problems. It's the "owning a gun for self defense" thing that scares me. Then you've got a whole lot of people grabbing their guns whenever there's trouble.

Well that's a generalisation but yeah, there are people like that who are too quick to bring a gun into every little situation. Self-defense is a legitimate reason to own a gun, but like when you're learning martial arts, you use it strictly for defense.

Of course it does, but that's totally beside the point. If most people are ok using a gun responsibly, should we forget about the people who aren't? This is why we have to have things like OH&S at work. Risk assessment and prevention is a necessity in this world, and annoying blanket rules exist for a reason (unfortunately for those of us who aren't mentally incompetent).

Like I said before, I support more detailed background checks, mental stability tests, and training not only on how to safely use the gun, but also on when it's appropriate to use it, as well as how to properly store it to keep it out of the hands of anyone you don't want to use it (kids).

 

[Satanstoenail]

Okay, so let's ban everything that people don't use responsibly, such as alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, television, radio, phones, the internet...hell, information itself.

Ugh. Risk assessment. Deadly weapons should obviously rate higher than any of those things.

 

[skeptik]

Information is the deadliest weapon of all, short of delusion and manipulation.

 

[Satanstoenail]

What about antique/relic guns, like from World War 2?

Yeah you can own those as well, but I think the hammer/firing mechanism has to be disabled.

Maybe if I threw it

That scenario would depend on how far away I was from you, how good your aim is, how fast you can pull the trigger, how fast I can run, how agile I am at instantly changing direction, how fast your reflexes are, my tolerance for pain, the number of rounds in your gun, and the caliber of gun you're using. Depending on all these variables, there's still a chance I can kill you.

True. But again, beside the point. Guns are much easier to use and conceal.

Well that's a generalisation but yeah, there are people like that who are too quick to bring a gun into every little situation. Self-defense is a legitimate reason to own a gun, but like when you're learning martial arts, you use it strictly for defense.

I agree that self defense is a good reason to own a gun if you live in a society that condones them. Personally I'd much rather live in a society that doesn't, because there are far too many stupid people in this world, and if I happen to knock on someone's door or get in an altercation with someone and get shot because some dumbass was too trigger happy, I'm gonna be annoyed.

Like I said before, I support more detailed background checks, mental stability tests, and training not only on how to safely use the gun, but also on when it's appropriate to use it, as well as how to properly store it to keep it out of the hands of anyone you don't want to use it (kids).

Cool. From what I know of the issue in America, it seems that there needs to be more people who share this view.

Information is the deadliest weapon of all, short of delusion and manipulation.

Look, you're just being annoying here. For what reason I don't know. This has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I agree with your earlier post directed at Hubster, his black & white, sensationalist, Michael Moore take on the whole issue annoys the crap out of me as well. If you're going to be facetious, kindly direct it at him thanks.

 

[cookiecutter]

I don't have a problem with target shooting. It exists here without any problems. It's the "owning a gun for self defense" thing that scares me. Then you've got a whole lot of people grabbing their guns whenever there's trouble.

But how do you regulate how people use it? You can't say, "only use this for hunting, not self defense". I did some digging and in almost every state, in order to carry a concealed weapon legally, you need to go through a training course and/or receive a permit.

 

[skeptik]

Look, you're just being annoying here. For what reason I don't know. This has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I agree with your earlier post directed at Hubster, his black & white, sensationalist, Michael Moore take on the whole issue annoys the crap out of me as well. If you're going to be facetious, kindly direct it at him thanks.

It's called establishing a precedent. Banning firearms doesn't make any more sense than banning anything else that I mentioned.

 

[Hubster]

Look man, I respect you and everything, but you're coming off like a complete moron lately. Your entire post read like a speech from a bunch of protesters picketing an NRA meeting. Asking what is so "cool" about guns (I'm pretty sure nobody said guns were "cool" and I myself have no interest in them whatsoever), buzz words and catch phrases like "batty bravado," "scaremongering of the media," "abusing the concept of freedom" rolleyes:!!!), "locking your own cells and throwing away the keys" (HOLY SHIT, SENSATIONALIST MUCH? Pure propaganda tripe), and of course the appeal of pity. I greatly appreciate that you feel so sorry for me because I'm so ignorant of the fact that guns can kill people due to the fact that I live in the country with the most violent deaths by guns.

Frankly, you're just talking a bunch of emotivist bullshit, without any actual argument whatsoever. Your points range from "there's NOTHING good about guns" to "they're fucked and you DON'T need them," the former being just fucking stupid and untrue, the latter being irrelevant to the issue at hand. I certainly don't feel as if I'm living in a "culture of fear" as a result of handgun deaths (the sensationalist propaganda spread by the current administration regarding terrorism being an entirely separate issue). And, well, I'm American, and you're Australian, so I have a feeling that I have a better understanding of the American culture (or lack thereof LOLZ!!!1) than you.

You're painting the issue as if we're all running around shooting pistols up in the air for shits and giggles, whereas in reality it seems as though the majority here have no interest in possessing a gun at all, but feel that responsible parties should have the right to own and use one responsibly if they so choose. Because banning guns is AN AFFRONT TO FREEDOM, the exact opposite of what you claim.

Learn more about the situation instead of relying on your emotional response to the issue because you just look silly. If I could choose between a "gun" and a "non-gun" state like I could a smoking and non-smoking section in a restaurant, I would prefer to live in an area with no guns. But that doesn't mean that I have the right to stop everyone from owning a gun any more than I have the right to stop women from having abortions or gay couples from getting married.

It's not about an argument at all (an approach something you would know nothing about considering its the only way you yourself know how to answer a post - by turning it into a "I'm right you're wrong" scneario!). My views are more about making people like you think, to make you more seriously consider alternatives, not to necessarily force choice of alternatives. Seriously, you all fall for this carrot every time and you don't even know it - think beyond the words you read. Would probably help if you got out into the real world a bit more often instead of this forum I'm so sorry to say.

Guns breed anger and violence towards your neighbour. Don't believe me? Turn on your news: look at your country guys, you people are killing yourselves. Doesn't that bug you? (Probably not considering most of you are so selfish and have no sense of community anyway). If guns are really so damn important, if you're really not scared of each each other and you don't intend to kill someone with it, tell me, why do you need it. Don't tell me how wrong I am, ANSWER THE QUESTION. In a context outside of for example, farming, the military, the is NO REASON for the general populace to need a gun. Oh, sorry I'm wrong, there is? Well then, be my guest and tell me how owning a gun provides something positive in general society. What positives does it create as opposed to the horrid stories of wailing siblings and parents at schools losing their children? So go on, tell me how good guns are. I fucking challenge you all, already have and none of you have responded thus far other than telling me I'm wrong. Resort to something other than numbers of opinion and provide me with a post that shows some selfless thought.

Admit it folks, you can't conceive of life in a society without guns, after all, it's all you've ever known. There is only part of this situation that you can truly understand, because as I said earlier (and which you did not address in your wasted post), you are inside the scenario - your visibility of the issue is distorted because you have no exposure to an alternative. It is akin to someone being in a bad relationship and then going to a counsellor. The counsellor is outside the situation, they are able to see the situation for what it is, whereas the person effected has a partial visibility and comprehension.

So sure, you folks would happily suck cock then lose your fucking redneck gun owning abilties, fine. But think about this - instead of hammering on about how much I'm stupid for being against guns and violence (and meanwhile raising points about how your nation is killing itself, which none of YOU even seem to care about!!!), consider whether losing guns will fix any of these problems in your society, because frankly, given this thread, it seems like none of you even actually care about your country and it's people.

 

[cookiecutter]

 

[Hubster]

^ I expected something stupid like that out of you.