2013: CONSTRUCT

She was trying to prove to herself the preconceived notion that the album was good. and big suprise - she finally convinced herself.

Yea, you can grow to like something, but that process takes place organically over time and is not something that can be predicted, and then fullfilled pending on the amount of spins you've given it. Our musical taste does evolve over time, but not by force. not the way its being described here.

Going from liking something to loving it over the course of time makes sense to me.
Going from not being into something at all and then listening to it over and over and over again, and then saying "oh yea, now i get it". That's called trying to force yourself to like it.
“Growers” don’t just switch from uninteresting to exceptional after x amount of listens. They grow with the person.

Ironically, this kind of mental self-deception (looking for something hard enough you'll find it one way or another) is a large part of the lyrical theme of Construct. I will say, however, that I think her preconceived notion was based on trust. I trust that the artists of DT are brilliant and will expand my mind a bit. In the case that something strange shows up on the album, I assume that there's a wise reason for it and I try to wrap my head around it. For example, take the way that For Broken Words just sort of ends, without really recapitulating after the bridge. Or how None Becoming, despite being filled with the big ideas that make a great album closer, doesn't have the long buildup or long outro one might expect of a track in that position. There are a lot of weird choices on the album, and reflecting on them is how we grow. In this case, I think the listener in question had to spend some time digging into the album to figure it out, since it's so far outside the metal fold at times, but that doesn't mean she tricked herself into liking it. Sometimes you have to figure out how something could work to see that it most certainly does. Like how chess or sudoku are both really boring games until your brain starts running excitedly down the branches of the game; it's not particularly interesting until you start to get the inner workings.

Take classical music for example. When you listen to Beehtoven, you hear beauty and then, with time, you learn to appriciate and understand the depth and complexity of it.

Or how about art? Salvador Dali - immediate attraction at first glance and then a deeper meaning is realized upon closer inspection.(not sure if Dali is ur cup of tea, but you get my point)

Beethoven's a good example of immediate appeal and true depth, but what about Prokofiev? At first listen you might assume he's insane, but finer consideration reveals the magic in his compositions (try Tocatta in C, for piano). How about Ravel's Scarbo? Hugely controversial in its time as an overworked, hyper-technical atonal composition, but spending some time with it lets you see the beauty.

Dali's a good example of your point, too. I've always loved his Meditative Rose, which has a very shallow, blunt kind of beauty to it (big goddamn rose in a blue sky), but the real mastery is in the details (the dewdrop, the silhouettes, etc). However, what about art that is not beautiful or appealing at first, but which excels on its details? I'm not much for visual arts, but a lot of the more abstract stuff like Picasso or Munch or even the Mona Lisa are very well regarded critically despite the near-complete lack of immediate visual appeal.

Basically, I think it is possible for work to be unappealing at its surface, but to truly click after a few listens. In the DT case, I think they get most of their fans from the metal community but mix in a lot of elements from outside of it. This is hugely pleasing to those of us in the margins of musical taste (I don't really prefer a particular genre), but it's challenging for many listeners. I think that's a good thing. Those listeners should be challenged to grow, and if they trust DT enough to invest the time to understand and grow their tastes, they should be encouraged to do so.

You see, there arent many metal fans in Souch Orange County so i dont really get to discuss these things with anyone around.

Try living in Detroit.
 
Because I like it when music flows. I'm not a fan of either dissonant or a-rhytmic stuff ;)
I mean I do like variable rhythms but this change is just too hard in my opinion. Just kicks you out of the song for a moment and this is not what should happen I think ^^

Really? In a way it's very similar to "Her Silent Language"; I reckon you don't like that one as well?

As for North American tours: I'm hopeful like you, but NA tours aren't particularly profitable. Our currency is almost worthless, it's a long drive between populated cities (especially if you want to hit anything other than the U.S./Canada border), we tax foreign musicians, and increasingly venues have started taking big chunks of merchandise revenues for themselves. It's a break-even proposition, really.

I'm not sure about that, the dollar is still the world currency (despite hard times) and the North American tours are so massive I'm sure the bands make plenty of profit, if not we wouldn't be seeing so many touring about here.

New album is incredible! The song that stood out the most for me on the first listen was "What only you know" really enjoyed the melodies on that one. The Science of Noise is quite good as well, the bridge is probably my favorite part of the song. That guitar solo over those chords are just too good, will probably be looping that part frequently.

:headbang: I know!!! I got pretty late into that song, but I'm totally addicted to it; I love the change between the heavy chorus riffs and the very industrial ones of the verses.

I know i'm new to this board and all, but i'm a huge fan of the Gothenberg style, and it seems like its being drained out of DT's music to the sound of this board's applause.

Even in projector, (one of my favorite albums) when they went with cleaner, more mellow harmonies, they still brought it back to real hard hitting metal sound combined with catchy licks and riffs at key points.

a band that doesn't sound metal.
takes a while to get into.
no riffs.
atmospheric.

None of those terms describe DT for me. Its fine to be excited about something different, but this is just an entirely different genre of metal being described.

I must be the only one here who thinks this new album's "atmosphere" translates to mostly just bland generic metal.
with the exception of the science of noise, this album is incredibly disappointing to me.

I might get some heat from some of you for sounding so negative, or maybe i'll just be ignored due to my lack of credibility on UM, but i have been following this thread since it started and i wanted to voice my opinion as you all have done.

BOTTOM LINE:

FOR ME, this is not an exciting album. DT's signature sound is very much diluted and the song structures are not well thought out.
Some of the tracks start out really nicely, giving the feeling that the album is gonna really start to pick up, but the energy eventually dissipates and fades into a a drawn out, dreary "atmosphere".

All that being said, this band has written 7 straight albums of near perfect music IMO.
And SkyDancer, WATV and Construct all have individual songs that i consider to be better than most of the stuff out there. So i will not even think of knocking DT as a band, but i will say that i am not excited about the direction they are heading.

The conclusion that i ultimately came to is that this is DT's least interesting album to date. I have added the Science of Noise to my favs playlist, but unfortunately the rest of the album fails to impress.

That's really sad :( . This is the most diverse album since Projector and heck, it might be even better than it. DT continues experimenting and pushing the boundaries of what (their) metal is because believe me, this album is still very much a metal album; you've always had very atmospheric tracks within DT or tracks that have many parts like that (Inside Part. Storm, Iridium, Terminus, Endless Feed, Senses Tied, etc.). My conclusion is that it's a shame you don't like it; I guess you're very "metal" as Science is very metal (amongst others…), which is obviously not wrong or anything. My suggestion, if you care: listen to more Post Rock :p.
 
I'm not sure about that, the dollar is still the world currency (despite hard times) and the North American tours are so massive I'm sure the bands make plenty of profit, if not we wouldn't be seeing so many touring about here.

Nearly everything I said there was based off of an interview with Niklas from a few weeks ago. American tours are break-even propositions unless you're filling venues like In Flames/Amon Amarth do. Smaller tours just don't make much money.

Of course, all of that was before Construct broke the Billboard 200, so we'll see how it goes.
 
Really? In a way it's very similar to "Her Silent Language"; I reckon you don't like that one as well?

Actually I absolutely love Her Silent Language :lol:
I a way it is is similar changing from cleans to rough vocals for example...but the transitions are sooooo much smoother in HSL. They musically make sense to my mind so I do not stumble over them.
In State of Trust it's just a total break of rhythm/style. The former part does not lead up top the latter. It's like going from A to C without passing B.

Nevertheless State of Trust is incredible :)
 
Nearly everything I said there was based off of an interview with Niklas from a few weeks ago. American tours are break-even propositions unless you're filling venues like In Flames/Amon Amarth do. Smaller tours just don't make much money.

Of course, all of that was before Construct broke the Billboard 200, so we'll see how it goes.

Oh wow really? I've always thought DT would have close-to-full venues, obviously nothing like AA or IF, but I think it still has a relatively large fanbase, especially after Fiction. Oui, we'd have to see how they fare after being on Billboard 200, which I guess it's a first one for DT. Gratts!

PS: Please post the link to the interview.

Actually I absolutely love Her Silent Language :lol:
I a way it is is similar changing from cleans to rough vocals for example...but the transitions are sooooo much smoother in HSL. They musically make sense to my mind so I do not stumble over them.
In State of Trust it's just a total break of rhythm/style. The former part does not lead up top the latter. It's like going from A to C without passing B.

Nevertheless State of Trust is incredible :)

Hmm yes I do understand your point, but even if the change is much more drastic than in HSL, you could say that there's a bridge by almost not having one (as the song almost goes to a full stop), but there's a Bridge there, for sure.
 
I love Construct, everything about it, the artwork, the whole feeling it radiates. Except maybe the sound is a bit too clean. But that's really all I can complain about. I was pretty partial towards the last 2 albums, but somehow Construct got me curious and my curiosity got rewarded, generously.

I particularly like the slower songs, Uniformity and None Becoming (amazing album closer), they're both really intense with great, epic melodies to boot. Great vocal work by Stanne, even the cleans are good. I personally don't like Projector at all, his vocals are way overdone and overdramatic there i.m.o. to the point they make me cringe intensely. Yet, when the clean vocals are used as an addition rather than as lead vocals, I really enjoy them. Also he doesn't moan and 'cry' (by lack of better words) like he does on Projector, he just sings and does it very well there.

Anyway, Construct is one of my favourite albums of 2013 so far.
 
Fuck. The mind's I and We are the void are no longer my favourite DT albums.

State of trust is beautiful (as is the rest of the album, but this is my favourite song on it). I love the (brilliant) way the bridge seems to slow down to less than half the speed of the rest of the song, yet the actual tempo is more than half that of the rest of the song; this is DT at its best: challenging and deceiving the listener time and again, hiding awesome little details which take many listens to notice but can't be unnoticed afterwards.

For what it's worth, for a year or two I "wasn't into" (read: "thought it was all right but not all that good") Iridium, which is my favourite song of all time by any band.
 
I love Construct, everything about it, the artwork, the whole feeling it radiates. Except maybe the sound is a bit too clean. But that's really all I can complain about. I was pretty partial towards the last 2 albums, but somehow Construct got me curious and my curiosity got rewarded, generously.

I particularly like the slower songs, Uniformity and None Becoming (amazing album closer), they're both really intense with great, epic melodies to boot. Great vocal work by Stanne, even the cleans are good. I personally don't like Projector at all, his vocals are way overdone and overdramatic there i.m.o. to the point they make me cringe intensely. Yet, when the clean vocals are used as an addition rather than as lead vocals, I really enjoy them. Also he doesn't moan and 'cry' (by lack of better words) like he does on Projector, he just sings and does it very well there.

Anyway, Construct is one of my favourite albums of 2013 so far.

One of, or your favourite one? Interesting comment about the production, I don't find too clean (it's not Emo Burger); seems similar to WAtV.

Fuck. The mind's I and We are the void are no longer my favourite DT albums.

State of trust is beautiful (as is the rest of the album, but this is my favourite song on it). I love the (brilliant) way the bridge seems to slow down to less than half the speed of the rest of the song, yet the actual tempo is more than half that of the rest of the song; this is DT at its best: challenging and deceiving the listener time and again, hiding awesome little details which take many listens to notice but can't be unnoticed afterwards.

For what it's worth, for a year or two I "wasn't into" (read: "thought it was all right but not all that good") Iridium, which is my favourite song of all time by any band.

YES!!! State of Trust is still my favourite track of the album, Martin B. did a superb job with it. I like the "overdrive" part of the lyrics (geek freebie?).
 
This is me loving Immemorial:

SOMETIMES YOU FORGET THAT SINGERS ARE MUSICIANS TOO, BUT THEN YOU HERE MIKAEL STANNE SINGING IN 5/8 IN A CHORUS LIKE THAT OF IMMEMORIAL. LIKE WHAT THE FUCK HOW DOES HE DO THAT. I MEAN, RAPPERS ARE GOOD AT DELIVERING WORDS ON TIME AND THEY DON'T EVEN FUCK AROUND WITH THAT.

Territorial, Immemorial.
 
Oh wow really? I've always thought DT would have close-to-full venues, obviously nothing like AA or IF, but I think it still has a relatively large fanbase, especially after Fiction. Oui, we'd have to see how they fare after being on Billboard 200, which I guess it's a first one for DT. Gratts!

DT certainly have gotten a bigger fanbase here in America but we all know the majority lies over in Europe (Heck just look at the Live in Milan DVD)

The reason I would guess is because DT has been going for so many years so that when they initially burst onto the scene they didnt have the benefit of the internet like AA does now (Certainly not to the extent AA has had) and DT's music while most of the time amazing is not the most accessible music in the world because it isn't straightforward. The more immediate your sound the more likely you will be popular (a sad truth I know)
There is also the fact that DT isn't USA grown. Plus there are very few melodic death metal bands who are actually popular here in the first place (In Flames is popular because they jumped on the Metalcore craze that so many Americans love (and well was pretty much started in America). I dont even think Opeth is that popular here in the US which is a shame (Although their latest album was really lacking imo).
 
I'm surprised Immemorial hasn't gotten much love.

It's a great song!!

This is me loving Immemorial:

SOMETIMES YOU FORGET THAT SINGERS ARE MUSICIANS TOO, BUT THEN YOU HERE MIKAEL STANNE SINGING IN 5/8 IN A CHORUS LIKE THAT OF IMMEMORIAL. LIKE WHAT THE FUCK HOW DOES HE DO THAT. I MEAN, RAPPERS ARE GOOD AT DELIVERING WORDS ON TIME AND THEY DON'T EVEN FUCK AROUND WITH THAT.

Territorial, Immemorial.

:worship:

@Defiance: I just stumbled over it again today, here's the interview I was talking about:

http://louderthanhell.net/bands/swe...views/1226/contructors-of-melancholy-melodies

Note that that interview was from before Construct became DT's highest charting album to date, so while NA tours still suck we might get some good DT action this time around.

DT certainly have gotten a bigger fanbase here in America but we all know the majority lies over in Europe (Heck just look at the Live in Milan DVD)

The reason I would guess is because DT has been going for so many years so that when they initially burst onto the scene they didnt have the benefit of the internet like AA does now (Certainly not to the extent AA has had) and DT's music while most of the time amazing is not the most accessible music in the world because it isn't straightforward. The more immediate your sound the more likely you will be popular (a sad truth I know)
There is also the fact that DT isn't USA grown. Plus there are very few melodic death metal bands who are actually popular here in the first place (In Flames is popular because they jumped on the Metalcore craze that so many Americans love (and well was pretty much started in America). I dont even think Opeth is that popular here in the US which is a shame (Although their latest album was really lacking imo).

LTH: America can be a worthwhile and sometimes vital market to focus on for bands, but on the other hand it is notoriously unfriendly for touring bands, especially foreign acts because of logistics and an often less than reliable concert-going population that changes city to city. How viable is it for a band like DT to tour the US, and what are your opinions on it?

Sundin - Well, there are pros and cons to everything, and US touring definitely has its own unique charm. Whereas most places in Europe tend to be pretty uniform, one can have drastically different experiences in the US depending on what state you play in, and that’s always interesting. Some of our very best concert memories are from playing to a small but devoted audience on equipment that barely works, so we don’t mind that. However, since you mention logistics and obstacles, I should be candid and say that the practical conditions indeed are getting harder. It’s very rare for most European bands to even break even on a US tour because of the high expenses for work visas, permits and flights as well as the artist taxes. In addition, more and more clubs are charging a ridiculously high percentage of merch profits to allow you to sell shirts, eating into the only potential tour income there is. The fact that the US dollar has lost a lot of its value in relation to some European currencies doesn’t help either, so for a band in our position, US touring is mainly a labour of love that’s done to keep the band “alive” overseas and to meet longtime friends and supporters rather than expecting any monetary rewards.

---

I guess that pretty much says it all (great interview, btw), but I'm confused, as I thought that DT massively toured NA, wasn't WAtV the biggest one ever?

I do hope the band has a lot of merch during the tour, as I plan to buy all of it XD.
 
During the WATV touring cycle, they came through the U.S. doing support for Killswitch Engage (actually Philswitch at the time, since Howard was taking some time off). That was around February. Then they were back in April/May for a headlining tour, which crisscrossed the U.S.-Canada border (fortunately I'm a northerner). Since those two jaunts in 2010, and any one-offs like 70,000 Tons of Metal, they haven't been to the U.S. They've traditionally only been here when there's a new album to promote, and as Niklas describes the venues are eating merch revenue so the only real reason to tour the U.S. is to promote the album. And now no one buys albums anymore (or at least gets them cheap and digital), so even that's barely worth it. I'm basically repeating what he said in the interview, but basically D.T. is just under the bar for American popularity to tour here. Amon Amarth and In Flames both do okay, but those are much more mainstream bands.
 
I keep discovering new things each time I listen to Construct. That's priceless.

It's usually like that with DT, but I agree, priceless and they don't cease to surprise me! I'm flabbergasted that I actually noted new stuff on Uniformity, one of the songs I've heard the most; there are some keyboards in the chorus I hadn't noticed before! :headbang: Martin B. :headbang:
 
Does anybody know if the CD was released with a regular jewel case? I hate digipacks. They don't sit in my CD rack just right, you can't read the spines, and they fall apart.

I'm all for saving the Earth and whatnot, but come on. Every CD I get really excited to buy these days comes in a digipack and I freaking hate them.

As for the music itself, Construct makes me feel the same things I felt when I first heard Damage Done. At the time it came out I was very new to this kind of music and it changed my life. I get the same "ohmygodthisisamazing" vibe when listening to 'The Silence in Between' as I did listening to 'Monochromatic Stains' back then.
 
I think the jewel case was only released in Europe. The basic U.S. edition was a 2 CD set with the bonus tracks in place. Not sure about any of the actual packaging, though, since I only bought the vinyl.