80's Hair bands.. Metal or not?

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I was just curious what everyone's take is on this.. I already know where Greeno and Trixx fall in this topic... to me the bands were never metal just flashy hard rock or glam bands.. but everyone thought is different ..

 

[sixxswine]

I don't they are, metal, but they have some elements of it. Somewhat.
I wouldn't call a band like Cinderella metal...
I wouldn't call Poison metal, would you?!
Or even Motley Crue, regardless of what Nikki Sixx thinks.
They weren't & never will be metal. They have some elements,
some more than others. Honestly, when I think metal I think Maiden,
Motorhead, Sabbath, stuff like that...
But what do I know? eveyone has their own view on what is & isn't?
Was Trixter metal? I hope we call answer this with a resounding "no!"
Think about it...
SIXXSWINE

 

[DrillSergeant]

Depends on how you define Hair bands. For example I'd consider Twisted Sister, W.A.S.P. and Skid Row to be Metal although I know many would disagree. First two Mötley records were also more Metal than Hard Rock to me. But either way I don't care that much about labels as long as I like what I hear. And I do so in all the above mentioned cases.

 

[Big D]

As Drillsergeant said: Depends on what you mean by "Hair Metal" Some writers, usually ones that don't like metal, seem to class any American 80's metal band that wasn't Metallica as Hair Metal .
I'd be inclined to say 'yes' if for no other reason than that bands they were seen as part of the metal scene at the time.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Hair bands of 80's = Poison, Warrant, Enuff z Enuff, Danger Danger, Motley Crue (after Shout at the Devil i would say), Ratt, Dokken (love George Lynch's playing but it was still only hard rock in Dokken and he would of been a great replacement after Randy died but Jake E. Lee did a outstanding job himself), Skid Row (except maybe the Slave to the Grind album), White Lion, Cinderella , Trixter, Slaughter , Mr. Big etc.. etc.. one's with so much makeup and hairspray & prettier then most pornstars of that era lol in other words.. i don't consider Twisted Sister, Quiet Riot ,W.A.S.P. etc.. in this category.. cause lets face it the singers(Dee, Kevin, Blackie etc.) in those bands were ugly as hell but the music was definetly "heavy" and "metal" ... a little above hard rock then the hair bands.. anyways it doesnt matter if they were seen as part of the metal scene at the time because that is just the media creating a illusion (Hit Parader and Circus magazine's come to mind during that era).. what matters is what you think of the bands yourself not what others thought... Image doesnt make a band Metal.. the music does..

 

[DrillSergeant]

I see what you mean and I would agree that most of those bands are not Metal. Nevertheless I like most of them so I still don't care. The only thing I would never sign is calling the Skids a Hair band. There was some mean shit on Slave To The Grind and Subhuman Race, they did a smoking cover of Delivering The Goods on their B-Side Ourselves EP and even their debut was a lot heavier than everything Poison ever did. Just think of Big Guns!

 

[Greeno]

Hair bands of 80's = Poison, Warrant, Enuff z Enuff, Danger Danger, Motley Crue (after Shout at the Devil i would say), Ratt, Dokken (love George Lynch's playing but it was still only hard rock in Dokken and he would of been a great replacement after Randy died but Jake E. Lee did a outstanding job himself), Skid Row (except maybe the Slave to the Grind album), White Lion, Cinderella , Trixter, Slaughter , Mr. Big etc.. etc..

You forgot Ozzy (Ultimate Sin) and Judas Priest (Turbo)

i don't consider Twisted Sister, Quiet Riot ,W.A.S.P. etc.. in this category..

Are you kidding?!! Stay Hunger and Come Out And Play are THE definition of Hair Metal. And Quiet Riot was the first hair band to break onto MTv... doing a Slade cover no less.

cause lets face it the singers(Dee, Kevin, Blackie etc.) in those bands were ugly as hell

Image doesnt make a band Metal.. the music does..

I'm confused now. After thinking about some of your posts I think the image is why you don't consider these bands metal, more so than the music.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Ozzy ,J. Priest, Twisted Sister, Quiet Riot even with makeup and hairspray were still heavier and/or metal then Poison and the other hair bands ever were.. There is a big difference between Talk Dirty to Me and the song Ultimate Sin... granted I thought it was a bad move on Ozzy's and J. Priest part to go the makeup/hair route but the music didnt change nonetheless to me... Quiet Riot never fell in that category to me.. Big difference between Metal Health and When the Children Cry or Wait... as for the Slade cover.. to me they metalized it.. they did it a whole lot better then the original.. as for Twisted Sister .. they were more influenced by Alice Cooper then Aerosmith.. Dee Snider can look like Bret Michaels if he wanted to but the music is still metal.. Metal Anthems like their god Alice C. If we strip off all their makeup (Twisted Sister as well as Poison) and clothes and left them with only instruments to play onstage or on record.. Twisted Sister will always be thought of as metal and Poison wouldn't... so no Image doesnt play a part for me that makes a band metal the music does.. I was just making a observation that the hair bands were prettier (cause they try to look like women for the most part) then the true metal bands (they looked like the stereotype of metal bands in Spinal Tap then women).. after all sometimes i listen to the songs before i even know what the band looks like depending on the group or album... but that is just my opinion.. i was just curious as to what the others thought themselves without listening to me or you or anyone else.. just their own opinions... <shrugs>

 

[Fangface]

Where's the option for "it depends on their hairspray brand" ?


Nah, some of them were Metal while the others were poppy hard rock IMO.

 

[baldyboy]

Where's the option for "it depends on their hairspray brand" ?


Nah, some of them were Metal while the others were poppy hard rock IMO.

nice one fang

its pretty evenly split.
i would say somewhat-many of them showed metal attributes,and combined it with the whole rock n roll ethos.
some-pretty boy floyd for example,just wanted to wear girls clothes and make up,the tossers.
a tricky one to be definative about.

 

[Psychonaut]

They were probably more metal back then than they are now. I used to think Twisted Sister was metal but now by today's standards they would be considered hard rock.

That even make sense?

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I know what you mean Psycho but thats like saying Black Sabbath and other bands arent metal anymore because of today's bands.. that shouldnt be true cause alot of bands in the past were either the originators or the innovators so should still be considered metal regardless.. i hear the same argument being said alot about Venom and Black Metal.. to me they will always be Black Metal regardless of today's standards and the same could be said about King Diamond and Mercyful Fate... so the same should be for Twisted Sister.. or at the very least we should go by the 80's standards...

 

[Wyvern]

I came too late, so I agree mainly with Sixx, Drill and Fang. The "hair" term (ludicrous by the way) can accomodate a lot of hairspray from Cinderella to Whitesnake and even Celtic Frost ("Cold Lake"). Glam is the proper term and a lot of bands played by those rules (looks and music), while others accomodate a bit to gain the mainstream audience (with money in their pockets).

And I also know that whatever anyone can post against, someone will post in favor, so...

 

[Abryl]

Glam is the proper term and a lot of bands played by those rules (looks and music)

I agree there. I dunno if it's metal or not, I was a huge glam fan when I was like 13. It was the kind of music that got me started and after that I started to pick up some heavier stuff and liked it. So I have nothing against most of these bands (some were really bad too!), they kinda served me well :Spin:

 

[Kedi]

Poison is a (Heavy?) Metal band. Metallica is a Speed Metal band. Linkin Park is a Neo Metal Band.

My opinion is: Despite the sound differences, Metal is a very general word almost like Rock. Even in some views, Jerry Lee Lewis is a Metal person.

 

[Kedi]

EDIT

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

Here's my answer...

Who really cares? Does it make a band any better if they are "metal" than if they are not "metal"? NOPE! You could sit there all day and scrutinize over different elements of their sound & music & attitude and try to decide whether it could be classified as metal or not, but at the end of the day it doesn't make a scrap of difference.

The bottom line is, whether or not the music itself is metal, they were a part of the metal scene and definitely a chapter of the history of heavy metal. But personally I couldn't care less if the music gets defined as "metal" or not. It ain't gonna make me like it any more or less either way.

Also, remember that VERY few "hair bands" ever even called themselves metal. They were in metal magazines, part of the metal scene and they were presented as metal bands to the public at the time by the media... but how many hair bands actually ever referred to themselves as metal anyway? I've never ever heard Poison say they are a metal band for example, and I can't think of many hair bands who did.

Even Motley Crue, I have an interview with Nikki Sixx from 1987 where he says HIMSELF, "We've been trash rock, glam rock, gutter rock, sleaze rock, hard rock, rock & roll, heavy rock, but we've never been heavy metal." Sixx never considered Motley a heavy metal band, he didn't even really like heavy metal!

I know back in 1983 Vince referred to them as heavy metal on stage, but in 1983 they WERE heavy metal (despite what Nikki says about them not being!), and also at that time the whole LA/hair scene hadn't really become a beast of its own yet, it was a few bands in LA playing a new sleazy hybrid of hard rock & metal that happened to explode when Shout At The Devil & Out Of The Cellar became so big.

But despite all that... the bottom line still is that whether its "metal" or not doesn't really matter. It's rock & roll and that's all it has claimed to be, and it was a major chapter in metal's history and a part of the scene... whether the music itself is heavy metal or not is debatable, but rather than sit there agonizing over it I think I'd rather just spend my time crankin' out Too Fast For Love, drinkin' Jack Daniels and bringin' home strippers to pay my bills, and I'm sure the guys in Faster Pussycat would agree!

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

The "hair" term (ludicrous by the way) can accomodate a lot of hairspray from Cinderella to Whitesnake and even Celtic Frost ("Cold Lake"). Glam is the proper term and a lot of bands played by those rules (looks and music), while others accomodate a bit to gain the mainstream audience (with money in their pockets).

SPOT ON!

As much as I don't like sitting there thinking about categories and stuff (see my last post to see what I'd rather be doing haha!), there is a big difference between "hair bands" and "glam". Hair bands refers to the whole era, from pop-metal and hard rock bands like Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, KISS, Warrant, later Whitesnake etc to to heavy metal bands like Twisted Sister, Quiet Riot and W.A.S.P.

"Glam" however refers to a very specific type of music, which is not so much the polished, produced arena rock that filled up MTV and people know now like the bands mentioned above (Jovi, Warrant, Whitesnake) but the sleazy, trashy Sunset Strip style bands who were more about capturing an attitude & lifestyle (sex, whiskey, strippers, tattoos, Hollywood, hairspray, drugs, etc) such as Pretty Boy Floyd, Vain, Faster Pussycat, London, early Motley Crue, first Poison album, Tuff, Shotgun Messiah, Roxx Gang, Erotic Suicide, etc.

 

[Fangface]

Beware... you've awaken the fury of the hellish Trixxi screaming for vengeance :zombie:

 

[JonnyD]

I agree there. I dunno if it's metal or not, I was a huge glam fan when I was like 13. It was the kind of music that got me started and after that I started to pick up some heavier stuff and liked it. So I have nothing against most of these bands (some were really bad too!), they kinda served me well :Spin:

I agree with you Completely! ... ... You rock Abryl!