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Ok, ok, I finally got it. Halfway through Being and Time (my third time), I became one with the old Martin. A communion with his fertile mind. I am in the process of destructing all of my accumulated and previous knowledge of philosophy, and focusing on my being--questioning my being, etc; I am a being for whom being is a question, a being who is not man but who is nothing other than man.

Perhaps now I can have a proper discussion on this board: not some confused byzantine argument i never properly understand. No more do I have to attack heideggerian followers, or feel that pang of remorse over my own lack of intelligence.

Logic is next. Ive never been a big fan (limited mind, dreamer).
 
Ok, ok, I finally got it. Halfway through Being and Time (my third time), I became one with the old Martin. A communion with his fertile mind. I am in the process of destructing all of my accumulated and previous knowledge of philosophy, and focusing on my being--questioning my being, etc; I am a being for whom being is a question, a being who is not man but who is nothing other than man.

you should practice meditation....especially transcendental meditation, given your new interest. concerning matter of this nature, direct experience is far more fulfulling than its analysis. :loco:
 
you should practice meditation....especially transcendental meditation, given your new interest. concerning matter of this nature, direct experience is far more fulfulling than its analysis. :loco:

Ive heard wine and LSD is an excellent way to go about this.
 
Pardon my satrical tone. I thought it would bring a laugh or two--both at me, and at this mercurial german philosopher.
 
mind altering substances have been used in meditation for thousands of years. there are dangers, of course. from personal experience, becoming attatched to a certain frame of mind brought on by the substance can be a hinderance. on the contrary, there are frames of mind that can be learned. its a fine line. substances just *snap* send you to a different world. there is no effort on the user's behalf. but, the user can observe, and remember the essence of the experience. once again, its a fine line.

*edit* - oh, i thought you were serious.
 
My cousin is translating a biography of Heidegger by Rüdiger Safranski, Martin Heidegger: Between Good and Evil, from German to Turkish. He asked me to help him as an editor. The translation will be published by one of the bigger publishing companies in Turkey, so we hope it will actually get read.

This will allow me to consider Heidegger's life a little more carefully. It should be interesting.
 
My cousin is translating a biography of Heidegger by Rüdiger Safranski, Martin Heidegger: Between Good and Evil, from German to Turkish. He asked me to help him as an editor. The translation will be published by one of the bigger publishing companies in Turkey, so we hope it will actually get read.

This will allow me to consider Heidegger's life a little more carefully. It should be interesting.

Cool. That's pretty impressive.

Seriously, this was meant as another April fool. Although, I finally did finish Being and Time.
 
Cool. That's pretty impressive.

Seriously, this was meant as another April fool. Although, I finally did finish Being and Time.

...and did completing it make the whole thing any more meaningful at all? My small collection of Heidegger books sits upon the shelf mocking me...taunting me for being so obtuse, so unable, unwilling to grasp it all! I may set them afire one day in a festive torchlight ceremony...how ironic that would be.:rolleyes:
 
...and did completing it make the whole thing any more meaningful at all? My small collection of Heidegger books sits upon the shelf mocking me...taunting me for being so obtuse, so unable, unwilling to grasp it all! I may set them afire one day in a festive torchlight ceremony...how ironic that would be.:rolleyes:

Give me your address, I cannot miss this glorious event! Hehe.

I must say, as I have said repeatedly: I greatly respect Heidegger's central ideas, but not his method or the way he presented his ideas (which I find repellent to the point of total hatred). I understand why he did, but also find it totally unnecessary, and terribly bourgeois (only a middle class prof would go to such lengths to academacize his thoughts. But let me reiterate, I greatly respect Heidegger. I know I've mocked him, but I do so out of respect yet disappointment. As someone trapped in pre-modern modes of thought and writing, I cannot accept anything that is not clear or witty, subtle yet poetic. And I do not accept, any philosopher who makes such profound claims, yet wishes to keep such knowledge for a select few (who wish to learn his lingo). So interior.
 
Which books do you have?

1)"Being and Time"
2)"What IS Called Thinking"
3)"Introduction To Metaphysics"
4)"What is Metaphysics" (This was highly recommended by Justin S. and brought me closest to making any sense of MH)
5)"Heidegger - A very short introduction" (Michael Inwood) Just a little 'intro' book, but helped with some background, etc.
 
Give me your address, I cannot miss this glorious event! Hehe.

I must say, as I have said repeatedly: I greatly respect Heidegger's central ideas, but not his method or the way he presented his ideas (which I find repellent to the point of total hatred). I understand why he did, but also find it totally unnecessary, and terribly bourgeois (only a middle class prof would go to such lengths to academacize his thoughts. But let me reiterate, I greatly respect Heidegger. I know I've mocked him, but I do so out of respect yet disappointment. As someone trapped in pre-modern modes of thought and writing, I cannot accept anything that is not clear or witty, subtle yet poetic. And I do not accept, any philosopher who makes such profound claims, yet wishes to keep such knowledge for a select few (who wish to learn his lingo). So interior.

I will let you know if it gets to the "burning" level...perhaps, I'll just have to set aside the whole thing 'til I can devote the proper time and focus to this. I am terrible when it comes to attention span and such. And as you know, what you describe above is basically my feelings on this to a "T."

...still those volumes mock me...I see them on the shelf...laughing...o_O
 
I have recommended this book before on this board, but I will do so again: Being-in-the-world: A Commentary on Heidegger's Being and Time Division 1 by Hubert Dreyfus. It makes some sense of what Heidegger is up to in Being and Time, and it is rather readable. If you have even a little interest in Heidegger, read this book.

Dreyfus goes through Division 1 slowly and he renders intelligible much of what seems really obscure in those sections of the book. Dreyfus only briefly touches upon the "existentialist" sections of Being and Time in Division 2. Some may think these parts of Being and Time are really important and perhaps also believe that Division 1 cannot be interpreted as independent of Division 2 in the way Dreyfus does. However, essentially all of the central content of Division 1 had been covered in lecture courses prior to the publication of the book, but we see none of analyses of anxiety, death etc. that we find in Division 2. These themes come up only in a lecture course delivered a couple years after the publication of the book where they are treated rather differently.

Heidegger was gathering recognition as an important philosopher because of his lecture courses at Marburg where he was treating themes that found their place in Division 1, but he did not feel content to publish anything. But he was getting close to a place where he had to either "publish or perish". In order to get tenure he had to publish a book and Being and Time is the result of Heidegger's effort to quickly get tenure. He couldn't publish just Division 1 because he was asked to produce a longer work. He therefore had to think of the content of Division 2 rather quickly and he composed it much more sloppily than he did Division 1 and it shows.

It is very easy to find more to relate to Division 2 than Division 1 as it deals (among other things) with phenomena that appear highly significant to us, like anxiety, guilt etc. But there is little cohesion throughout and connections between different ideas he presents are usually tenuous. Also what he means to be talking about when he discusses time is almost completely opaque.

Division 1 is not much easier to read than Division 2, but it is better worked out and more cohesive. Heidegger brought forward many new ideas there and it pays to consider them carefully. Heidegger took himself to uncover certain fundamentally mistaken assumptions in the philosophical tradition from Plato all the way down to Husserl. Dreyfus collects these under 5 headings in his introduction and says that the fact that Heidegger made these assumptions explicit is reason enough to devote time to read his work.

1. Explicitness. "Western philosophers from Socrates to Kant to Jurgen Habermas have assumed that we know and can act by applying principles and have concluded that we should get clear about these presuppositions so that we can gain enlightened control of our lives. Heidegger questions both the possibility and desirability of making our everyday understanding explicit. He introduces the idea that the shared everyday skills, discriminations and practices into which we are socialized provide the conditions necessary for people to pick out objects, to understand themselves as subjects, and generally to make sense of the world and our lives."

2. Mental Representation. "Heidegger questions the view that experience is always and most basically a relation between a self-contained subject with mental content (the inner) and an independent object (the outer)." For him "there is a more fundamental way of being-in-the-world that cannot be understood in subject/object terms. Heidegger does not deny that we sometimes experience ourselves as conscious subjects relating to objects by way of intentional states such as desires, beliefs, perceptions, intentions, etc., but he thinks of this as derivative and intermittent condition that presupposes a more fundamental way of being-in-the-world that cannot be understood in subject/object terms."

3. Theoretical Holism. The underlying conception of the mind in the philosophical tradition led "to the notion of a holistic network of intentional states [i.e. mental states which are about something], a tacit belif system, that is supposed to underlie every aspect of orderly human activity, even everyday background practices. [...] Heidegger opposes this philosophical move. He denies the assumption that there must be a theory of every orderly domain - specifically that there can be a theory of the commonsense world."

4. Detachment and Objectivity. "From the Greeks we inherit not only our assumption that we can obtain theoretical knowledge of every domain, even human activities, but also our assumption that the detached theoretical viewpoint is superior to the involved practical viewpoint. [...] The pragmatists questioned this view and Heidegger can be viewed as radicalizing the insights of such pragmatists as Nietzsche, Pierce, James, and Dewey."

5. Methodological Individualism. "Heidegger follows Dilthey in emphasizing that the meaning and organization of a culture must be taken as the basic given in the social sciences and philosophy and cannot be traced to the activity of individual subjects. Thus Heidegger rejects the methodological individualism that extends from Descartes to Husserl to existentialists such as pre-Marxist Sartre and many contemporary American social philosophers."

Of course what these assumptions really come to is explained in depth in Dreyfus' book. Even though I find some of his attempt to spell these assumptions out less than fully satisfactory (especially regarding the second assumption about mental representation above), I think he almost always starts on the right foot in approaching these issues.

In his earlier book on artificial intelligence, What Computers Can't Do? Dreyfus did a close study of the then-ongoing research for creating intelligent machines and argued that that research was based on assumptions similar to those outlined above. Then he used arguments similar to those Heidegger provides in Division 1 of Being and Time to show that that line of research could not lead to the development of intelligent machines. His criticisms have actually turned out mostly correct in their essentials. That research program is dead at the moment. Other lines of research are possible for artificial intelligence, but these have had to learn the lessons from the failure of the classical research program. Some people in the area of artificial intelligence have therefore read some Heidegger - at least through Dreyfus' interpretation. Everyone in our artificial intelligence lab in college had to know this stuff even if they weren't too into the more theoretical part of our work.
 
I have recommended this book before on this board, but I will do so again: Being-in-the-world: A Commentary on Heidegger's Being and Time Division 1. It makes some sense of what Heidegger is up to in Being and Time, and it is rather readable. If you have even a little interest in Heidegger, read this book.


Thank you for the recommendation!
 
I guess I should actually write a proper review of the book in Turkish so as to get the book translated. It is a shame that translations have been done only of a couple commentaries that are even more obscure than Heidegger's prose itself. People tend to pick up the worst tendencies in Heidegger's writing unfortunately.
 
I'm very weary of Dreyfus (and this is run through my most polite filter). His Being-in-the-world, from what I have seen only briefly looking over it (reading the intro and first chapter) seems sound from a descriptive stance (how ever much that means to you).

However, his essay "Heidegger on the Connection between Nihilism, Art, Technology and Politics" is utterly atrocious. So bad, in fact, that I am "skeptical" (on a good day) of the worth of any of his work.

Additionally, he gets the condescending stamp of approval from analytics, which is never a good sign.
 
That paper is not very good actually, but it is hardly indicative of the value of Dreyfus' commentary. Nihilism, art and politics are not themes covered in the book. And for good reason. They are not part of Division 1. Dreyfus has tried to make sense of some of Heidegger's later writings on the basis of his intepretation of Division 1, but this doesn't always give a good account of Heidegger's later writings on art, technology and so on. I frankly don't know how to make heads or tails of these later writings and attempts like Dreyfus' are at least commendable. Most commentators just seem to speak (later) Heideggerese when they turn to topics of this sort and don't throw any light on these writings. It isn't clear anyone understood much about Heidegger's writings after 1930 or even that there is all that much to be understood there in the first place.

I believe you are displaying a much more condescending tone in your comments, and it hardly seems warranted.
 
So what're the truly valuable points in his philosophy?

I mean we take Nietzsches 'slave morality' and Kant's 'Categorical Imperative' and Hume's 'constant conjunction' n shit, what is Heidegger's great idea (the dasein one I guess) really about? What is it you add to your vocabulary in thinking about philosophy, or your everyday sorting of ideas which this impacts?