A Little Advice, if you Please...

[Mr Samsara]

Although at this point budget will be the deciding factor in selecting my first guitar, I would be very interested in learning what makes a guiter "Suck", "Mediocre", "Good" or "Great".. is it the strings, pickups, the wood, the electronics/pedals or the amp... is it the sound that you guys are referring to or how easy it is to play... and what makes it easier to play? arent they the same size and the frets the same distance apart? what's the deal?

Out

 

[LoboUivante]

...a sea of sleep passed a veil over my eyes
but not like them, statues of defeat...

...and i dreamt

good luck with your guitar playing, don't give up if you like it.

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

Although at this point budget will be the deciding factor in selecting my first guitar, I would be very interested in learning what makes a guiter "Suck", "Mediocre", "Good" or "Great".. is it the strings, pickups, the wood, the electronics/pedals or the amp... is it the sound that you guys are referring to or how easy it is to play...

Mh, for an electric guitar i think the wood is the most important thing. the would 'creates' the actual sound, next important would be the pickups because they are transmitting the sound to your amp.
i've been noticing that the might be the most important part to make a good sound...
sucky guitar + great amp = acceptable sound
great guitar + sucky amp = bad sound

if i was in your situation i wouldnt really care about the pick-ups too much. i guess you are buying a cheap guitar (which i'd recommend because you never know if you will keep playing for a longer time) and they all sound more or less sucky, more important is the how easy the guitar is playable (i've played on a real cheap-ass guitar for almost 4 years...i know what i am talking about here) because badly playable guitars really drain motivation.
you cant expect cheap guitars to be great but i think that yamaha guitar is very good for its price.

try to manage to get an semi-decent transistor amp to start (you should get acceptable ones for about 200$). imo you shouldnt get anything with on-amp effects because their are 1. more expensive 2. the effects arent good an 3. they make you randomly using effects and i think everyone should try to sound good without effects first.

i hope i made sense...gotta go to bed now...

 

[AmirH]

Gonna have to agree that it's a bad idea to start with an expensive guitar. The thing to really watch out for is the ones that won't even stay in tune. That's where you start to get in trouble. I started with a 200 dollar epiphone, and 5 years later I'm still using it. Even if you get tired of the cheap sound later on you can drop in some emgs and be good to go. I love mine because I'm used the neck from playing it so long(DID have to adjust the action though) and because I'm not worried about dinging it like I am with my new one(which does kick it's ass in every way possible). I also think it's a good idea to start on an acoustic. I played a nylon string for about half a year before I bought the epiphone and it helped me a lot in that I knew the basic chords and couldn't just cheat on an acoustic while learning. Once you know the basics, THEN you learn electric technique.

Also- tabs might be free but I HATE them. I was classicaly trained on a double bass so I grew up used to strandard notation and really hate not being able to sight read.

 

[Kenneth R.]

By the way, I'm not going to music school, I'm going for an Audio Engineering masters so I can stay involved in music even in my normal line of work.

me too

as for the guitar question, well...
i've been playing guitar for 7 years, and i bought a junk one from the start. soon after, when i had progressed to an intermediate level, i longed for a better axe. i bought a nice jackson (before fender sodomized them) and have been happy with it ever since. know that if you take steps down the musician path, you've gotta take it seriously and practice, learn, and be passionate about your music. it doesn't have to be your career, but you won't be very successful without practice and learning. i guess my best advice would be, if you play, play with all you got, and your music will be rockin.

 

[Mr Samsara]

Gonna have to agree that it's a bad idea to start with an expensive guitar. The thing to really watch out for is the ones that won't even stay in tune. That's where you start to get in trouble. I started with a 200 dollar epiphone, and 5 years later I'm still using it. Even if you get tired of the cheap sound later on you can drop in some emgs and be good to go. I love mine because I'm used the neck from playing it so long(DID have to adjust the action though) and because I'm not worried about dinging it like I am with my new one(which does kick it's ass in every way possible). I also think it's a good idea to start on an acoustic. I played a nylon string for about half a year before I bought the epiphone and it helped me a lot in that I knew the basic chords and couldn't just cheat on an acoustic while learning. Once you know the basics, THEN you learn electric technique.

Also- tabs might be free but I HATE them. I was classicaly trained on a double bass so I grew up used to strandard notation and really hate not being able to sight read.

what are emgs? what do you mean you had to adjust the action of the neck? is an epiphone a guitar brand? what is a double bass? I have only heard of that in relation to drums.

All: By the way, thanks again for the great and positive responses and not flaming me as some dumb old guy who doesn't know anything. You guys rock and I appreciate it.

Out.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Epiphone is a sub-brand of Gibson USA. (guitar co)

Action refers to the height of the strings (metal wires) above the neck (where you put your left hand (usually). this can be adjusted by a variety of means, but is usually left alone except by professional hands.

EMG is a company that makes pickups, the (usually) black or white bars that capture the sound of an electric guitar. many players take out the pickups that come with a new guitar, and replace them with better ones, of which EMG is one possible source.

there are a couple different musical references for "double bass"
there is, as you know, in reference to rapid drum hits with 2 mallets.
then there is the actual instrument, the double bass. it is a large string instrument not unlike a cello (i believe) which in turn is just a really big, deep sounding violin.

 

[AmirH]

Hey cool! Someone answered for me. To elaborate a bit though- mentioned emgs specifically because they're active(powered) pickups with built in pre-amps. In other words, they take virtually no tone from the wood of the guitar and sound the same on most guitars. That's a very good thing if you're putting pickups in a cheap guitar because it sounds the same as it would in a very expensive guitar. If you go this route, try a lot of guitars in your price range out and find one that has a really playable neck and stays in tune.

Also, as Silent-song said I wouldn't recommend adjusting the action on your own. It took a few tries to get it right for me and if you have no clue what you're doing you might make it worse. It isn't expensive to have a pro do it for you though.

Epiphone were good before Gibson bought them actually. Now they're just Gibson's bitch and might be compared to the "squire" line of fender. Basically the low end of the quality chain.

And yes, double bass is a big violin. It's actually the exact same as a bass guitar too but a giant acoustic version with a bow. You can see them played in classical orchestras or in jazz. I actually wish I could afford one, because it came a lot more naturally then guitar ever has, and the nicer ones sound incredible.

 

[Mr Samsara]

Excellent info as usual. As mentioned in my previous posts, I actually played in orchestra for a few years and believe it or not, I never heard the term "Double Bass" in reference to the largest of the stringed instruments. Violin, Viola, Cello, Bass... that's how I remember it. I sometimes see them played without a bow in Jazz referred to as a "Stand up Bass", but I don't know if it is exactly like the one in a classical orchestra w/out a bow or not...

By the way, I probubly am going to go w/ the kit listed in my first post as it has a lot of stuff to get started, including a little amp and a tuner, etc.. check it out if you haven't yet and gimme your feedback considering all the info so far...

Out.

 

[Ermz]

Tuner will definately come in handy. For the first odd year, I kept pestering my guitar instructor to tune my guitar up for me, hehe. Thankfully the ME-50 pedal has an in-built one.

 

[AmirH]

Yeah, they're the same thing. I used the term "double bass" because someone on UM once corrected me for calling it "stand up bass" and "bass" is easily confused with Bass guitar.

WOOT! The costco guitar! Actually, the neck on that thing isn't bad at all. I don't know how well it stays in tune though because I only messed with it for a few minutes and it has a tremolo...which can complicate things a bit. Not a bad strat knockoff at all from what I can tell though. Yamaha usually does a pretty good job. That's a great deal there- considering it comes with everything you need to get a start. And it's cheap enough that when you do outgrow it you can just get a different guitar. It occured to me that I got a 50% discount on my emgs via my buddy at guitar center so I don't think it would be worth it for you to spend more on pickups then the guitar itself.

God I'm lazy today. *gets back to work*

 

[Luz]

Moonlapse: This has nothing to do with this thread so sorry, but I know you're online now. What cd of Camel would you recomend to someone who has never listen that band? Can I try with 'Can I See Your House From Here?
Thank you.
\m/

Luz.-

 

[Kenneth R.]

tuners are indispensible!~ unless you have perfect pitch (meaning you can hear notes as their respective letters easily) then having a tuner will save you tons and tons of trouble and keep your instrument (therefore you) sounding good. don't go anywhere without one

 

[Ermz]

Moonlapse: This has nothing to do with this thread so sorry, but I know you're online now. What cd of Camel would you recomend to someone who has never listen that band? Can I try with 'Can I See Your House From Here?
Thank you.
\m/

Luz.-

I'd say to go with the remaster of 'Moonmadness'.

 

[Mr Samsara]

Ok. a couple of questions from checking out everyone's gear from the "Post pics of your gear" thread:

What is - a Full Shred Combo and the bridge?

What were y'all talking about when referring to "combos"?

Aaaaaaand if your bored, I'm gonna post the specs of the little kit I'm really thinking about getting and don't know what most of the things are that they are referring to, so please translate if you feel generous... and are bored like I said. I really could give a shit about the "Strap with Yamaha logo". .. but there are different kinds of picups, what the hell is a "Capo"? I could just go down the list, but like I said....here it is.


Complete Starter Kit Includes:
Yamaha Electric Guitar
EG112PR-BLACK

7-watt Amplifier, GA10
Electronic tuner, YT120
Special Yamaha gig bag
Extra set of strings
Pick
Strap with Yamaha logo
String winder
Capo
Guitar method book

EGP112 Electric Guitar:
2 single coilpickups
1 humbucking pickup
Vintage vibrato system
5 position pickup switch
Tremolo bar
Master volume and Master Tone controls
Maple neck
Chrome closed tuning hardware
Bolt-on neck construction
Rosewood fingerboard
Basswood body
No coil split
Scale length: 25-0.5” (648 mm)
Nut width: 1-0.63” (41 mm)
Radius: 13-0.75” (350 mm)
Frets: 22
Color: Black with white pick guard
Guitar cable included

GA10 Amplifier:
7 watts of power
5” speaker
Volume, Tone Bass, Distortion/Clean controls
Headphone jack
Dimensions:
10.4” W x 6.4” D x 10.0” H


Mmmm, k then.

 

[AmirH]

I don't know that it's worth my time or yours to explain the ENTIRE list, but I'll answer some.

Fullshred combo is probably referring to a duncan brand pickup in the bridge position. Combo's in that thread were probably talking about pickups since only one person posted an amp, but a combo can also reffer to an amplifier with the speaker right under the head. This of course is opposed to buying the head and cabinet seperately.

A capo is that nifty device that clamps onto the neck of the guitar and holds down the strings. It's great for playing full chords in a higher octave, and has a few other good uses. Basically you are barring the strings at a point your index finger could or couldn't reach.

The 7watt amplifier will(I know it does in fact) sound like complete shit, but for the purpose of learning is just fine. I learned on a bass amp so it's probably even better then that.

The string winder in case you don't know is just a tool to help you change strings faster.

The a humbucker is just two single coil pickups wired together to cancel out hum. They sound bigger, and more full then the single coils.

Single coils give a very distinctive, somewhat higher sound. They're typical in stratocaster style guitars. Either way, the pickups on this guitar are probably shit so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

vintage vibrato system is the your is the tremolo function and is controlle with the whammy bar. Some of these work great, others slip out of tune constantly. The double locking floyd rose design was developed specifically to help solve this problem in the old days. You can get cool sounds with this, but I usually stay away from them because I can do a lot of the same things with my fingers and don't want to deal with the tuning. With slightly more expensive guitars a liscensed floyd is usually included which offers even more sounds because of it's ability to tighten as well as loosen the strings but falls out of tune just as often because of the cheap metal and is hard to tune because of the locked nut. Real floyds are supposed to be much better, and there are newer systems on expensive guitars that work nearly perfectly. I would take this system over the liscenced floyd simply because you can tune it easily when it slips out of tune.

The selection switch allows you to select the pickup being used.

The woods on this guitar seem decent enough. Many guitars use maple necks. Maple gives off a bright lively tone. Basswood is the same wood ibanez uses. I don't know much about it other then the fact that it's light, and ibanez guitars don't sound half bad. Rosewood fingerboard=win. They're on so many guitars for a reason.

bolt-on neck is much cheaper then neck-thru or set neck construction. It's literally bolted onto the guitar from behind. The only real advantage of this(IMO) is that if the neck breaks, or if you don't like it, it can be replaced easily. Most guitars are made this way and with this guitar it's nothing to worry about, but with a neckthru guitar the wood resonates as a single piece and the tone is better and sustain longer.

No coil split just mean you can't split the coils of the humbucker. It doesn't matter at all on this guitar because it comes with two single coils anyway.

Considering costco provided all these specs, you know exactly what you're getting. That's great for a guitar that price, and lets you know what types of problems you might run into. Seems like your strandard first guitar overall. There are hohners that seem quite similar to this at kennelly keys for 130 bucks but without all the accessories. Just make sure to learn all the full chords and fingerings before starting with the one finger power chords!

 

[Kenneth R.]

those numbers look about right.

continuing:

pickguard is the plastic plate on top that prevents your playing from scratching the guitar. instead you scratch the plastic plate.

string winder is a tool that i, myself, have been meaning to get but never have. its a crank of sorts that you can attach to the guitar's tuning adjusters so that when you're putting a new string on, it'll turn faster, making the job easier on your hand.

and yeah, as DA said, learn chords (major and minor if ya can) for C, D, E, F, G, A, B. F and B were my hardest as a beginner. E and A, easiest. these are priceless to know later on, when you may read music that just says C-----F----G or sorts. "real" chords also sound more interesting than "power chords". powerchords are easy to play, but they are mainly for a deep rhythm sound and less textural (uh.. less.. varied?) so learn the real deal as well.

 

[Luz]

Thanks!

\m/
Luz.-

I'd say to go with the remaster of 'Moonmadness'.

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

just some random notes:
the advantage of bolt-on necks is mainly that their are cheaper than neck-thru constructions. they also have a effect on the sound of the guitar but that's pretty uninteresting in the price-class we are talking about here.

i see a problem about the vibrato-system on that guitar. i swear it wont keep tune. i've witnessed some cheap ones and they were totally useless. i cant understand why they are putting them on cheap guitars. anyway, if you dont use it, it will keep tune more or less. a tuner is a very good thing for the beginning until your ears are trained to tune without it. i'd highly recommend it.
the rosewood-fretboard is a good thing...way better than maple-fretboards. the amp surely won't sound good but it's ok for the first steps on guitar. just dont expect a decent tone with it.

 

[Mr Samsara]

So after I showed my buddy the link to the costco.com guitar deal from my first post, he said... "well, it could be ok.. but the only way I can tell you if it is a descent guitar is to play it" which of course would be impossible before purchase. He added that the other stuff is not too expensive on it's own and said, "Wait, I may be able to find something in your budget that I can verify is of some quality" referring specifically to the guitar.... so here we are. I still haven't gotten a guitar nor have I played a single note..... but it's coming...... eventually. I still really appreciate the advise/knowledge and will update when appropriate.

Ok, then.