Advice On Creating A Home Studio.

[opeth_353]

Right. In 2/3 years time, i may be moving to France from the UK. Housing is cheaper in France, so when we go there we'll most likely end up with a very substantial amount left over. I have suggested that, seeing as it is my ambition and general hobby, that we consider creating a home studio so that i will never actually have to go into a studio. Ever. Towards the end of this year i will be starting a music production course to learn how to use the sort of technology i plan to buy, but i want to get started on looking into the stuff i need/want. I really don't know much about it all, i have some basic ideas of what is good, and what i will be learning to use but i don't currently now exactly what each programme/piece of equipment will be able to do for me.

What sort of stuff do people recommend i get? Like, stuff that i'd actually need - not just 'ooh this is pretty nifty, you might want to look into that'.

The things i intend on looking into purchasing are:

• A good Apple Mac - i've been told iMacs are good.

• Logic 7 (maybe by the time i move there'll be a newer one).

• Pro Tools (although i'm not sure if i'd need this with logic.. Tbh i'm not entirely sure what it does - whether it's a recording programme or an editing programme).

• Toontrack's Drumkit From Hell Superior.

• A good set of speakers (not sure if that's the proper term - studio monitors or whatever).

• Some soundproofing

Any other suggestions? And any ideas on how much it would all cost? If you can give links to the equipment etc that'd be appreciated.. If not, just the name so i can search for it.

I'll possibly be able to spend up to £20 K on this.. So there's not a huge budget constraint.. But obviously not over the top stuff. Just stuff that will allow me to record music for me to be able to release.
If £20 K isn't quite enough to get a good home studio, what stuff would you recommend i get first so that i can eventually build up a good studio?

Cheers.

 

[Don Corleone]

a substantial thread. yeah, could someone fill us in on this? soundave?

 

[Ermz]

Before you buy anything you need to know what you're gonna need. The best way to do that is to actually educate yourself on the entire industry and try as many different DAWs as possible.

I would recommend getting into your music production course before you dish out any substantial money, as many people I've known have come to regret purchases they made when they were in a state of not knowing.

Logic is a program that started out with sequencing in mind then slowly adapted more and more audio functionality.

ProTools is the same but in reverse. Only now in version 7 are they coming to a point where it can deal with MIDI solidly.

At this point it's more of a question of which software's workspace you prefer. They all essentially do the same thing, but some have more expanded features in some areas and slightly less in others.
You don't necessarily need a Mac. Many claim them to be the holy grail of media editing machines, but my experiences have been less then stellar. Go with the platform you're most comfortable with.

I hope you understand that to do what you actually want to do takes a great many years... Keep in mind that a musician is not a producer or an audio engineer by birth. These are all different professions and each comes with its own skill-set. When you attempt to delve into the world of audio engineering and sound production you essentially start again, at level 1, just like you did with whatever instrument you play.

Most of my professional dealings are with people who've started a project studio with the same hopes as you, failed, and then come to me realizing that in some cases the musical side and the technical side are meant to be kept separate. On the other hand, there are many who make it work for them. You just need to understand that this will take you years to start getting close to the results you hear on professional productions.

What's with the allergy to studios btw? There are no other places I'd rather be...

 

[FRUGiHOYi]

I say don't get a Mac because they're overpriced pieces of garbage.

 

[Kir-ir-Bannog]

off the topic of music, before you buy the house make sure it is not infestated with termites (pay a professional to look at it and certify it)...heard a few horror stories about brits buying up in france and spain and having their houses condemed a year later as all the wooden structure is being eaten away = too dangerous to live in any longer. Then it dawns on them why it was so cheap in the first place.

 

[Lothlorien]

I say don't get a Mac because they're overpriced pieces of garbage.

agreed. a pc would be just fine with your home studio needs. some of the nicest Dells that are coming out are priced at around $500-1,000. I bought a new Dell in the summer and it is fantastic. I'm going to school for graphic design, and i think Macs only shine if you are using an Adobe type of software, IMHO!

 

[opeth_353]

Before you buy anything you need to know what you're gonna need. The best way to do that is to actually educate yourself on the entire industry and try as many different DAWs as possible.

I would recommend getting into your music production course before you dish out any substantial money, as many people I've known have come to regret purchases they made when they were in a state of not knowing.

Logic is a program that started out with sequencing in mind then slowly adapted more and more audio functionality.

ProTools is the same but in reverse. Only now in version 7 are they coming to a point where it can deal with MIDI solidly.

At this point it's more of a question of which software's workspace you prefer. They all essentially do the same thing, but some have more expanded features in some areas and slightly less in others.
You don't necessarily need a Mac. Many claim them to be the holy grail of media editing machines, but my experiences have been less then stellar. Go with the platform you're most comfortable with.

I hope you understand that to do what you actually want to do takes a great many years... Keep in mind that a musician is not a producer or an audio engineer by birth. These are all different professions and each comes with its own skill-set. When you attempt to delve into the world of audio engineering and sound production you essentially start again, at level 1, just like you did with whatever instrument you play.

Most of my professional dealings are with people who've started a project studio with the same hopes as you, failed, and then come to me realizing that in some cases the musical side and the technical side are meant to be kept separate. On the other hand, there are many who make it work for them. You just need to understand that this will take you years to start getting close to the results you hear on professional productions.

What's with the allergy to studios btw? There are no other places I'd rather be...

Thanks a lot man - i totally understand what you're saying. I do not plan on buying anything until after the course is done and if we actually end up moving - i am just eager to learn and hear people's ideas and opinions.. 2/3 years is a long time, and i want to start my learning now so that i know as much as i can for when/if it becomes reality rather than a proposal.

I think the college that i will be going to later in the year deals in both Logic and Cubase, so i will be able to judge from that which i prefer. But please, do tell me what your preferences and recommendations are.. and why. I am eager to know and it can only serve to help me in making my decisions.

I have been into studios a few times and i and my 'musical partner' have decided we do not like them and we are both very keen to learning how to D.I.Y it. I do understand that we won't be producing top-level quality recordings as soon as we acquire the equipment, a lesson learnt from my pile of shite Zoom 16 track.. really had to push it to get anything remotely good.

I have personal enjoyment of composing and recording music.. And whether my own music 'makes it' or not.. I don't care really.. I have the ambition of being a songwriter/musician/producer, and i just need to learn how to do the producing side.

So - if there's anything you have to say, please say it.. If you can answer my initial query, please do. I won't take these answers as the be-all-end-all truths.. I know different people prefer different equipment - it will merely help me learn more about them.

And to the termite point ahaha... Yeh i have heard horror storys too - we know to get full surveys carried out and, seeing as it's essentially a 'no going back' step, we're going to make sure everything is 100% cushty... We can't afford for any real fuck ups.

Cheers for the responses so far!

 

[opeth_353]

agreed. a pc would be just fine with your home studio needs. some of the nicest Dells that are coming out are priced at around $500-1,000. I bought a new Dell in the summer and it is fantastic. I'm going to school for graphic design, and i think Macs only shine if you are using an Adobe type of software, IMHO!

... I cannot say i am a fan of Dell.. They really gave us the worst service EVER. I'm sure they create good software, but man did they fuck us about.

 

[CAIRATH]

Here's a simple fact: people who claim that Macs are superior to PCs for [insert purpose here] are zealots who cannot actually back up their claim with facts 99% of the time. Most professional software suites that exist on the Mac are available on PC as well and are just as good there (infact much more software is available for the PC than there ever will be for any Mac platform) and you can assemble a very respectable PC for significantly less than it costs to buy a good Mac and on top of that end up with a system that is more versatile (wider range of software available) and can be easily customized/upgraded by yourself with cheap parts you can buy from any brand/retailer you want.

Macs are for artfags who drive Volkswagon Beetles, wear berets and think Franz Ferdinand is the 'hippest' band of the last decade. Don't be one of them.

 

[opeth_353]

Any suggestions as to the sort of computers and programmes i should look into then? I will have to see what i think of Logic and Macs when i start the course, and then if i agree with you..The plan is for me to go and look into the programmes that i was recommended etc..


Oh.. and there is one thing i am going to end up getting regardless of whether or not i move.. Drumkit From Hell Superior.. Wow..Just.. Wow..I knew it was good, but checking up on it again recently.. It's better than i remembered!

http://www.toontrack.com/dfh_superior.asp

If you've never heard it, there's some mp3s demos on the link provided.

 

[in_absentia]

I personally use ProTools for when i am recording live. i've used Cakewalk and a few other programs, but ProTools does it for me. I don't know very much for a studio sense, because all i have ever really set up for and mixed are live gigs, but i imagine that it would be somewhat similar. But i 100% agree with everything Moonlapse said, damn that is some pretty good advice heck i'm gonna take some of it myself.

 

[opeth_353]

..If this'll help at all..

These are the bands i will be recording or helping to record etc.. For sure.

http://www.myspace.com/amaurosisband
http://www.myspace.com/laviedeleuphorie
http://www.myspace.com/taliesinuk
http://www.myspace.com/songsoftheneanderthals
http://www.myspace.com/veneratedband

Not looking for critiques, i know that some of the sites only have old/shit demos up (done using my recorder, bar the Neanderthals song).. But these are the sort of styles i intend to play/record .. I do intend to, as time goes by, update and improve the studio (if i get it) to adapt with any of my needs that change.

Is this any help for people giving me suggestions of what stuff may be best suited to my needs?

 

[Scourge of Malice]

Here's a simple fact: people who claim that Macs are superior to PCs for [insert purpose here] are zealots who cannot actually back up their claim with facts 99% of the time. Most professional software suites that exist on the Mac are available on PC as well and are just as good there (infact much more software is available for the PC than there ever will be for any Mac platform) and you can assemble a very respectable PC for significantly less than it costs to buy a good Mac and on top of that end up with a system that is more versatile (wider range of software available) and can be easily customized/upgraded by yourself with cheap parts you can buy from any brand/retailer you want.

Macs are for artfags who drive Volkswagon Beetles, wear berets and think Franz Ferdinand is the 'hippest' band of the last decade. Don't be one of them.

God you're a dumb fuck.

 

[CAIRATH]

God you're a dumb fuck.

Very constructive post there buddy.

Idiot.

 

[soundave]

Funny... I'm trying to do something similar myself. As some folks know (like Don Corleone) I used to teach audio and have worked in studios, so the system I am able to afford for home use seems so paltry by comparison. But you do what you can. Ask yourself a serious question: what do I plan to actually do, and what is the best means of accomplishing that? Then invest in the best quality stuff you can get for that purpose. In other words, go for depth versus breadth.

So, where should you spend your money?

DAW's: Macs are not by any means necessary, though they can be more stable. Macs use better components than some PC manufacturers (for example, Dell). Be particularly wary of using a laptop. Most laptops are not configured for audio, and suffer from IRQ conflicts that are impossible to resolve. Ever. To be sure the computer you want to use works for you, I suggest visiting the Pro Tools website and checking out which machines they've qualified. They're pretty rigorous, so if it qualifies for PT, it will qualify for any program you choose to use. If you are going to go Firewire, make sure you get a Texas Instruments FW card with Oxford 911 chipset. Otherwise, you will run into problems.

If you have the money, I'd advise you to check out companies that custom build PC's for audio. I've heard nothing but great stuff about ADK Pro Audio. When I've emailed questions, the owner has gotten back in touch with me personally. Sonica Labs also does the same sort of thing, but I don't know much about them. Basically, these companies build the PC's, make sure the components are quiet, make sure that there are no conlicts, make sure that you don't have any useless crap that will bog you down. And the price is comparable to a Mac. Highly recommended.

As far as the software goes, what do you plan to do? Are you a guitarist? A MIDI guy? How much control do you need? I have to say that what's available to the hobbyist these days astounds me. In college, the kind of software you can get now for $100 was in the thousands of dollars. At least. One of the biggest issues would beone of compatibility. Do you plan on collaborating or sending mixes anywhere? Maybe refining mixes done elsewhere? If so, I'd say that, in my experience, the industry is still favors Pro Tools a bit. So, if you wanted to be able to do work like that, but still stay on budget, you could get Pro Tools M-Powered (M-Audio). However, you have to keep in mind that everything associated with Pro Tools is more expensive. And not always better. For example, I can get freeware VST instruments and plugins for Sonar that are pretty damn good (especially being as that they're free!). Not sure you can do that with Pro Tools.

As far as my own situation, I'm almost embarrassed to disclose my current setup! It works so far, though. And I hope to continually add on.

Edirol FA-66 Audio/MIDI interface
Cakewalk Sonar Home Studio 6
A simple MIDI controller keyboard
My guitar (Les Paul Classic 1960 Re-issue ca. 1992... a damn good year for it)
TI Firewire card
IBM Thinkpad T43
A couple of EV dynamic mics
Apex 430 Large Diaphragm Condenser Mic

I monitor through my Paradigm Titans through my Yamaha amp set to Direct output. Very flat response.

On the way:
LaCie Porsche External FW HD
AKG K240S Headphones
EZ Drummer
Drumkit From Hell EZX
Behringer V-Amp Pro

I'm gonna be selling my old BR-532 and phantom power box soon, as well.

Oh, and most audio cats will tell you that if your monitoring chain sucks, your setup sucks, no matter what other shit you have. They're right. You need to be able to hear what you're doing. Make sure to save some of that money for some decent self-powered monitors (not practicing what I preach, but I simply can't afford it, being a stay at home dad) that have a flat frequency response. They shouldn't color the music in any way. Read reviews.

That's all for now. If I get more specifics, maybe I can be of further help. I considered trying to build a hjome studio in an attempt to make money, but anyone will tell you that's a long shot. With home recording technology being so affordable now,it's hard to convince people why they ought top go through you (inexperienced) when they could buy their own gear and do it themselves (perhaps just as inexperienced). I even have some decent experience, and I wasn't willing to risk it. I decided to scale down, accept that it's a hobby, and maybe grow into something more if it seems possible. But I didn't want to get in a situation where I'd have a tremendous hole I'd never be able to dig myself out of. Audio is a tough, tough biz.


Just my two cents. Best of luck!

Also, for some of the best help on the web, in terms of home studio setup and such, do yourself a favor and visit Studio-Central Forums. Great people from all areas of the audio biz who are amazingly helpful and have a wealth of knowledge.


Take care,

-Dave

 

[soundave]

Most professional software suites that exist on the Mac are available on PC as well and are just as good there (infact much more software is available for the PC than there ever will be for any Mac platform) and you can assemble a very respectable PC for significantly less than it costs to buy a good Mac and on top of that end up with a system that is more versatile (wider range of software available) and can be easily customized/upgraded by yourself with cheap parts you can buy from any brand/retailer you want.

Partially true, but naive, I think. Especially that last part. It's a recipe for disaster. You need specific audio-qualiified parts. Trust me on this. You'll be sorry if you don't do your homework and bargain-basement shop.

 

[CAIRATH]

I wasn't talking specifically about audio equipment. I'm talking in general. Obviously if you're building a recording studio you're going to want to buy high quality audio components. But Macs are not customizable in anywhere near the same degree as a PC is, is what I'm saying. There is no real market for Apple hardware and you cannot even really tinker with them yourself unless you are able to obtain the (very specific) part you need and really know what you're doing. Whereas with a PC you can build your own by selecting every single component to the tiniest detail (spending more where needed and spending less where it isn't needed) or have someone more knowledgeable do it for you and you can always upgrade or replace components as the need arises (if you have a Mac and something breaks you are generally stuck with relying on Apple's service to get it fixed which is not cheap if your warranty has expired).

I work in the IT industry and come in plenty of contact with Mac users (mainly the designers for our sites) and no one has ever put forth a single convincing argument why a Mac is a better choice than a PC nowadays. It used to be true for certain very specific high-end applications due to the fact that it had a very standardized platform (kind of like game consoles do as well) compared to PCs which at the time lacked a robust OS (ie. in the days of windows 95/98 when MacOS was arguably ahead of Microsoft's products) but it absolutely no longer holds true today no matter how much Apple's silly marketing campaigns would like you to believe so.

Buying a Mac means you buy an expensive piece of equipment (in terms of performance/cost ratio) with a far more limited scope of available software and virtually no way to customize or upgrade your hardware. And in the end there isn't a single thing you can do on it that you cannot also do on a PC. All I'm saying is that you need to make very sure that you actually *need* a Mac before doing that. And in 99% of the cases, you don't.

 

[opeth_353]

I've read the stuff quickly and i plan to read over it again so far... So i may come back with more questions.

First of all, thank you for obviously putting a lot of time into your post, Soundave.
For the bands i'm in, i tend to be the drummer, but i am a multi-instrumentalist and in one of my side projects i am currently everything. I plan on recording guitars, synths and bass but i plan to purchase Drumkit From Hell superior for ease of use. I am familiar with drum programmes and i will be willing to sit down and teach myself to use it. I am not entirely ruling out the idea of recording acoustic/electronic drums - but it is definitely not one of my prioritorys.

I have recently bought a Line 6 Pod XT Live which (for La Vie De L'Euphorie and my friend for Amaurosis) goes straight into my Zoom 16MTR to record, but depending on what i learn/decide after finishing the production course, i may decide to purchase a good amp with head and mics to record guitars with, possibly experimenting with the line 6 pedal through the amp. I hope that the course i am soon to take will help me with making such decisions.

I don't expect to have, or at least start off with, a perfect studio. I plan on building and improving it over time as i further refine my skills and decide what i like and what i don't like. I will most likely have £20K at my hands to spend on recording equipment and instruments (i am looking into buying a parker fly deluxe, am currently looking at acoustic guitars and basses, and i want to look into Nord Electro Synths - probably about £5K in total). However, the recording equipment will come first over instruments and i am willing to cut back on instruments if need be. From my knowledge, the College i will be attending tends to focus on using Logic and only uses Macs, so i may end up purchasing the programmes if i find that i like how they work. Would it be worthwhile (or could i even afford) to purchase pro tools and.. for example.. Logic? To give a broader range for me to use?

As to production quality, i do not want lo-fi darkthrone style production, but nor do i (currently) want (no dor i expect to be able to achieve) Steven Wilson style pristine recordings. I'd be ecstatic to be able to achieve production levels akin to:

• Weakling's "Dead As Dreams"

• Enslaved's "Monumension"

• Ulver's "Bergtatt"

• Agalloch's "The Mantle"

• Deathspell Omega's "Kénôse"

• Opeth's "Still Life"

• The Axis Of Perdition's "Deleted Scenes From The Transition Hospital"

But, like Enslaved, Ulver, Agalloch and Opeth, be able to advance - That could mean 1 of 2 things.. Learning how to really push the equipment or eventually having to update my equipment (be it buying a whole new system, or merely a programme). But essentially, i want the best stuff that i can afford to allow me to achieve similar (not just emulate) those production styles.

This is something i'm incredibly serious about, it's not a flash in the pan - i have been wondering about it since i first started writing music, and i am willing to put a lot of time, effort and possibly tears into sorting it all out. I am willing to admit that i may be rushing about with ideas excitedly, and that is why i need good, effective suggestions on what i should look at.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[soundave]

I wasn't talking specifically about audio equipment. I'm talking in general. Obviously if you're building a recording studio you're going to want to buy high quality audio components. But Macs are not customizable in anywhere near the same degree as a PC is, is what I'm saying. There is no real market for Apple hardware and you cannot even really tinker with them yourself unless you are able to obtain the (very specific) part you need and really know what you're doing. Whereas with a PC you can build your own by selecting every single component to the tiniest detail (spending more where needed and spending less where it isn't needed) or have someone more knowledgeable do it for you and you can always upgrade or replace components as the need arises (if you have a Mac and something breaks you are generally stuck with relying on Apple's service to get it fixed which is not cheap if your warranty has expired).

I work in the IT industry and come in plenty of contact with Mac users (mainly the designers for our sites) and no one has ever put forth a single convincing argument why a Mac is a better choice than a PC nowadays. It used to be true for certain very specific high-end applications due to the fact that it had a very standardized platform (kind of like game consoles do as well) compared to PCs which at the time lacked a robust OS (ie. in the days of windows 95/98 when MacOS was arguably ahead of Microsoft's products) but it absolutely no longer holds true today no matter how much Apple's silly marketing campaigns would like you to believe so.

Buying a Mac means you buy an expensive piece of equipment (in terms of performance/cost ratio) with a far more limited scope of available software and virtually no way to customize or upgrade your hardware. And in the end there isn't a single thing you can do on it that you cannot also do on a PC. All I'm saying is that you need to make very sure that you actually *need* a Mac before doing that. And in 99% of the cases, you don't.

Agree 100%. I just want the OP to understand that audio + PC = research. Audio + Mac = success out of the box. No real upgrading, though, of course. If you're into tweaking, a Mac is definitely NOT for you. But all the compatibilty issues are taken care of for you as far as audio is concerned. That's all. No disrespect meant, mate. Hope you didn't read my post that way.

Edit: Oh and btw Opeth 353, the computer you end up getting should be exclusively for audio. Don't put anything else on it, and, ftlog, don't connect it to the internet if at all possible. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches. Make sure to have a separate HD (at least 7200 rpm) for audio, apps on the main drive. Okay, g'night.

 

[opeth_353]

I've looked on that forum you put the link up for, Soundave, and it has a good range of opinions and shitloads of advice - thank you very much.
I get the feeling i may end up buying both logic and pro tools.. If i have the money. Just so i have the best of both. Well, that's assuming i will like using Logic!

It seems that, to get the instruments i was looking at.. It seem it definitey will cost around £5000. So that will hopefully mean i have around £15,000 for everything else!

This is the current set of instruments i'm looking at purchasing - again, not made any final decision, but these are the ones i intend to look at in more detail.

Electric Guitar
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/fly-deluxe/11465 - £1999 - (Parker Fly Deluxe)
Or
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/nitefly-mojo-flame/67147 - £1699 - (Parker Fly Mojo Flame) Gak

Acoustic Guitar
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/pinnacle-cu147-mid-bowl/69664 - £519 - (Ovation Pinnacle CU147 Mid Bowl)

Bass Guitar
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/ibanez-sr-1005efm/71367 - £885 - (Ibanez SR-1005EFM Flame Maple)

Synthesizer
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/electro-seventythree/1394 - £1119 - (Nord Electro SeventyThree)

Drum Machine
http://www.thomann.de/gb/toontrack_dfh_superior.htm?partner_id=43724 - £161 - (DFH Superior)

A new question concerning amps - i am currently unsure as to whether i'll record via micing up amps, but i definitely want to learn more about it. What are the advantages and/or disadvantages to Micing guitars amps as opposed to say.. Getting my Line 6 Pod XT Live, and plugging it straight in and recording?
I assume buying a seperate Cab and head is better than buying a combo amp. Are there specific amps that are good for aquiring the sort of sounds of the bands i mentioned earlier?
And if i choose to not record via micing amps, what equipment would i need to be able to plug straight in?
And finally.. What in fuck is a firewire?

..I'm full of bloody questions aren't i! ><

EDIT:
Doing some rough calculations of all the stuff i've been looking at to get rough prices, assuming i get a mac with logic (currently not included pro tools) and the instruments..As well as including some things i haven't mentioned here (i included the price of a mesa boogie head and cab, some cheapish flat response headphones, a monitor set just to get an idea of what to expect price wize) And so far i would've spent &#163;12,443.33 .