Advice On Creating A Home Studio.

[opeth_353]

Edit: Oh and btw Opeth 353, the computer you end up getting should be exclusively for audio. Don't put anything else on it, and, ftlog, don't connect it to the internet if at all possible. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches. Make sure to have a separate HD (at least 7200 rpm) for audio, apps on the main drive. Okay, g'night.

By that .. do you mean, not even having Drumkit From Hell installed on it? I only intended for Logic/pro tools/both/whichever DAW/s i choose and Drumkit From Hell to be on the Mac, and i would keep the computer i'm currently using as the leisure computer.

I was also looking into external hard drives as a way to save my files - would that be good enough?

I quickly searched and found this:

External Hard drive
http://www.gear4music.com/Hardware/...00GB_G-TECH_G-RAID2_FW_800--400plusUSB_2.html - £445.33

If EHDs are okay, would this be suitable?

 

[Ermz]

Soundave means that your system should ideally be confined to audio related programs. DFHS, your DAW and whatever plug-ins and audio tools you need are fine. As long as you don't bog the system up with a lot of media, or internet use.In that regard however, I don't practice what I preach.

I bought a relatively new Core 2 Duo PC system that I've used for everything from gaming to media playback to video encoding to mixing audio and it's flown in every application. Keep in mind I spent months researching the most cost effective system under the $3000 AUD mark, and I know how to maintain the machine.

The benefits of recording a real amplifier over using a digital emulation DI'd into the system boil down to:

The real amp sounds better. There is no contest at the moment, as digital technology simply isn't as a point where it can keep up with tube amplifiers in terms of high gain or overdriven guitar sounds. With the use of impulse responses and modelling cabinets accurately, newer software sims like Revalver 2 have come bloody close, but it's still no cigar. You still have to resort to layering tracks like crazy and doing non-standard things to make them behave closer to how the real amps would. It becomes a question of what's cost effective vs what sounds better.

In terms of DAWs...

The only two I have extensive experience with are Cubase/Nuendo (same thing) and ProTools. I would recommend at least learning ProTools reasonably because it's so widely used. As Soundave said, it's not exactly the most cost-effective or versatile option.. however I've found it to have the best editing capabilities out of any DAW that I've tried. I essentially use ProTools to track and edit, and use Nuendo to mix and master.

The great thing about VST-based DAWs is that there are so many great free plug-ins out there that you just can't get in RTAS (but there may be converter plug-ins which let the two formats interface.. I dunno).

The most annoying thing is that ProTools uses a hardware dongle in the form of an audio interface. All their budget audio interfaces suck compared to equivalently priced 'third-party' models. I know because I was forced into buying an Mbox2-Mini simply to do editing work. The thing barely functions as a soundcard in Windows.

Your playback chain is very important. You want to have a good set of studio monitors and a treated room to mix and track in. One of the biggest problems with small bedrooms is low-frequency standing waves and flutter echo which distorts the way you hear the material through the speakers. I struggle with low-end quite frequently in my room as it's completely untreated at the moment.

If you're going to use DFHS for a lot of beat programming, I would suggest grabbing a MIDI controller of sorts to allow you to program faster. That way you can play the beats in rather than having to draw them.

So yeah.. your general question is pretty wide and I think that response is all my brain is able to manage at the moment.

In Summary:

I've tried Cubase/Nuendo and ProTools. ProTools is good for editing but not cost-effective. Cubase is good for MIDI sequencing and mixing, but not so great for editing. Never used Logic, although have heard good things, especially about the plug-in set that comes with it.

Speakers and room are important. No speaker is perfect. You need to get one that colors the sound in a way that appeals to your style of working. Try to minimize room anomalies with acoustic treatment.

Anyhow my brain's switched off... so best of luck, haha.

 

[opeth_353]

ahahah man, thanks a shitload for that! Very informative and nice to know - i was thinking i was going to have to find another way to run DFH >< I'm not sure i'd get a midi controller, but guess what... At college, they have them, and we'll be using them.. So if i like them, maybe i will get one!

However, a couple of new questions.. Not necessarily aimed at you - i think you have worked hard enough to retire about now

What does 'treating' a room entail? What sort of things would i need to do it and how much would it cost? Are there more cost effective ways of doing it and if there are would it result in a lack of quality?

At college i will be learning about mics, mic placement etc. etc.. But what mics do people use/what mics do people recommened for rock/metal/acoustic recording? I'm going to start looking into mics now, so this should be helpful for me.

 

[Ermz]

The process of treating a room involves a lot of research beforehand about ways to minimize the problems of your particular acoustic space. You can get broadband bass traps that try to minimize bass build-up in your room.. or if you want to go at it hardcore, you can use various formulas to work out which exact frequencies are a problem in your room and target them directly (this is the extremely expensive and time-consuming approach).

I'm not aware of any good acoustic treatment guides at the moment, but this forum may give you a good head start:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=235606

Mics.. a lot of it is personal taste, but some mics have become widely accepted industry standards on certain things.

For instance the most common mic to find in studios is the Shure SM57. This thing is great on high-gain guitars, snares, and smaller toms. Heck it's even decent for some vocalists!

For everything else... there's such a wide choice out there, I really wouldn't know where to start. I mean the Studio Projects B1 is the best budget condenser microphone I've heard to use on acoustics. I've found the Shure KSM27 to be pretty cool on metal vocals. I don't know really.. you'll have to get some experience with mics yourself to see what you prefer, and of course identify what you will need the mics for exactly. A lot of money can get sunk into mics, and it's important that one knows what they do and whether paying the exorbitant price for the higher-end models is worth it.

 

[opeth_353]

Okey dokey, i'll look into that.

And indeed, i thought that might be the case. Fortunately there is a section of the course focussing on mics, what they do, learning how to use them and so on... I'm guessing this'll no doubt help me no end! I have asked my mate, who is currently doing the course and recommended it to me, if he can send me the work he's done so far.. I'm guessing it'll help out my potential home studio planning and more obviously help me on the course when i start it!

 

[soundave]

You could drop some serious cash on mics if you want, and it would be worth it, imo. The sound of your recordings will depend on the mics you use. Make sure you get to play around with a lot of brands and styles of mics in that course. Understand what mic seems to work best with what instrument and try to get a feel for why. There are some mics that are generally accepted to be best for miking guitar cabs (SM 57 can take a beating andsound pretty good, for example), snares, kicks, toms, overheads (notice the emphasis on drums... miking up a kit well is an art and science. Nothing clues me off to a non-professional job than cardboard phasey drums), vocals, etc. Try them out and see if you can hear why.

And learn good mic technique. Even the best mics sound like ass when they're poorly placed.

My opinion, which is, I think, in line with Moonlapse (who I'd defer to in all things studio, btw, as a guy who is currently working in one), is to work from the sound source down the recording chain. Better mics are more important than the difference between the top of the line DAW and a less expensive one or a shitload of plugins. You know the old polishing a turd metaphor, I'm sure.

Cheers.

 

[Don Corleone]

so to a person, like me, who knows nada about recording, mixing or producing anything but wants to record stuff (guitars and vocals, basically) at home with his 80 watt-marshall valvestone amp and his laptop, the advice you can give is to buy a good mic and a good soundcard, dave? moonlapse?

could i trouble you with these grassroot level questions? and what recording software do you recommend? one of my friends installed kristal on this laptop. thanks already =)

 

[soundave]

so to a person, like me, who knows nada about recording, mixing or producing anything but wants to record stuff (guitars and vocals, basically) at home with his 80 watt-marshall valvestone amp and his laptop, the advice you can give is to buy a good mic and a good soundcard, dave? moonlapse?

could i trouble you with these grassroot level questions? and what recording software do you recommend? one of my friends installed kristal on this laptop. thanks already =)

It depends on your budget and your goals, Don. Will you record guitar and vocals simultaneously? (I wouldn't, if I were you.) If not, you could probably get by with a single Shure SM 57 for both and a Firewire interface like the M-Audio Audiophile, Presonus Inspire 1394,or M-Audio Firewire Solo. Do you need MIDI ins and outs? That would change things a bit, but not much. A lot of the interfaces come with "lite" versions of various recording software, so that might even get you by if you're just starting out. Check them out here. If you let me in on what your budget might be like, I can be of further help. This is the, like, $300 (USD) solution. Let me know, I'm happy to help. Budget studio stuff is sorta my bag. Moonie's on the higher end of things, lucky bastard! (I miss the fuck out of my Neve and SSL!!!)

 

[Ermz]

Haha, I'm certainly not on the higher end of things here at home, Soundave. I think there's a place for all levels of gear.. half the deal these days is transporting projects around all over the place.

For instance on the latest album im doing, we started drums off in one of the best studios in the state. Now we're DIing the guitar into my mbox2-mini, which we will ultimately reamp at another great facility, where I study.

It's all about knowing what you can expect from various environments and how to make it as cost effective for yourself as possible. But yeah I suppose I'm preaching to the choir here, as you'd already know this.

@Don: I seriously think your most convenient option is to go out and buy a Digidesign Mbox2-Mini. You get the recording interface, with a mic preamp, headphone out, and even DI capability. It comes with ProTools LE software... and not only that, but it's bundled with a ton of free plug-ins, AND an instructional DVD on how to use ProTools. Pretty damn convenient.

The Mbox will also work with other DAWs... so if you decide you don't like ProTools, you can always grab Sonar or Nuendo or something (whether through underhanded means, or actually purchase them).

I think rather than using the valvestate, you would probably get a better tone using amp modellers. I have an 80w valvestate sitting right next to me... it hasn't been turned on in 2 years, and is used as a clothes hanger.

With vocals, it greatly depends what sort of voice you have, and what style you're doing. As Dave suggested, an SM57 may get you by given that you don't know much about sound recording, and likely wouldn't really appreciate the difference between a budget condenser microphone and a rugged dynamic like the SM57. The great thing about the 57 is that it's damned cheap, and if you ever wanted to mic up the valvestate with it, it'd be more than apt for the job.

 

[opeth_353]

What is Firewire all about?

 

[Don Corleone]

if only i could understand what you were saying could you guys please come down to my level?

seriously, im going to follow whatever advice you are going to give me. i plan to record vox and guitars separately, so there.

for instance, whats a Digidesign Mbox2-Mini? do you think i can find it here in turkey whatever the hell that is? im not planning to buy anything online after i paid $330 just for shipping my guitar.

im willing to spend at most $500 for the whole thing...is that too little for my amateur home recordings with just guitar and vox? if so, i can squeeze some more. sorry if i sounded arsy...just a little tipsy tonight ...and kinda in a foul mood. thanks for all the help, though. much appreciated

 

[Don Corleone]

I think rather than using the valvestate, you would probably get a better tone using amp modellers. I have an 80w valvestate sitting right next to me... it hasn't been turned on in 2 years, and is used as a clothes hanger.

With vocals, it greatly depends what sort of voice you have, and what style you're doing. As Dave suggested, an SM57 may get you by given that you don't know much about sound recording, and likely wouldn't really appreciate the difference between a budget condenser microphone and a rugged dynamic like the SM57. The great thing about the 57 is that it's damned cheap, and if you ever wanted to mic up the valvestate with it, it'd be more than apt for the job.

i bought my valvestone last saturday. and ffs, how can you use an amp as a hanger? hahahaha

im thinking of recording singer/songwriter stuff...with some heavy guitars thrown in here and there...thats all. i dont have the typical rock vocals..just ordinary plain vox for that sounds good on mellow stuff.

 

[soundave]

Sorry Don, I'll try to speak in more simple terms.

Firewire (also known as IEEE 1394) is a way of connecting devices to your computer (like serial or USB), and ou need to either have the slots on your computer, or you need to get a Firewire card. You put that in the PCMCIA slot of your laptop (where you might have, say, a network card). It's fast and it's cheap. Here's a FW cable:

Moonie's right on the M-Box2 Mini. There are 2 authorized Digidesign retailers in Turkey, both in Istanbul, check it out.

The M-Box2 mini is a way of getting the signal from the mic, amplifying it, converting it to digital, and sending it to your computer so you can manipulate it (mix it, eq it, etc.). It comes with a light version of Pro Tools and, actually, a shitload of effects.

 

[opeth_353]

So, i could record via firewire using my Line 6 PodXT Live pedal? It has a usb input.. which i assume the firewire would fit into.

 

[soundave]

So, i could record via firewire using my Line 6 PodXT Live pedal? It has a usb input.. which i assume the firewire would fit into.

Nope. They're different. You could record via USB, but most reviews I've read about doing that haven't been really good. Pretty glitchy from what I gather, and there might be something to be gained sonically from going analog out and through a preamp. Just what I remember reading. Try it out and see what you think, I guess.

 

[Ermz]

The USB output should serve you fine unless you have enough cash handy for a good preamp.

The drawback to going analogue out of the XT is that you'll be doing 2 sets of analogue to digital conversions. One when you go into the XT with your guitar, and another when you go from your soundcard into the PC. With USB it just stays digital all the way.

Just a random remark here... doesn't really have anything to do with audio but... what is it with quality control these days? In the last few months I have had a plethora of problems with PC hardware that is simply screwed out of the box. I've had a joystick that died within 2 days, an on-going problem running 3d applications on my current system, and I'm now on my 5th monitor replacement... every single one has had the exact same problem as the last.

Are there no standards? Is there nobody enforcing the quality of the end product? It seems to me that soon the warranty policy of a company will be a bigger selling point than the actual products.

 

[Don Corleone]

dave and ermin, thank you very much. i'll follow your advice. cheers

 

[opeth_353]

Moonlapse, random compliment - checked your myspace and the bands you've produced.. Extremely professional work. A big round of applause!

Is there a way to record without mics, firewire or usb .. Just like.. Going to the mac using guitar leads? If there are, i assume they're not too expensive.. And how good would recording quality be?

 

[Ermz]

Thanks dude, I appreciate that. I was actually saying earlier to someone, it gets so hard to distinguish yourself these days because everyone and their dog has a great recording system. You have to rely on your own ability, if you wanna do audio as a living. I assume you don't so, you'll be fine! haha.

Yes you can go into the PC using just a guitar lead, but it's very bad practice. Once you learn electronics, they will teach you about impedance and how low and high impedance don't tend to mix. To give you the short hand version. Impedance is basically electrical resistance across an AC circuit. Guitars output a high impedance signal, and your Mac or PC soundcard will want a low-impedance signal (usually line level).

You need something in the chain to boost and convert your guitar signal to what your computer input desires.

This is why I advocated an Mbox2-Mini to Don Corleone. I spent years slaving over my $2 budget set-up, trying to get good tones but... it was an upward battle for years. If you just grab one of these interfaces it solves all your problems. It gives you microphone inputs if you wanna mic shit up. It gives you the preamps to boost those microphone signals... it gives you DI inputs (basically a jack you can plug your guitar straight into) and you even get the software to record with. I mean it's some real great value out there.

 

[rrjii2000]

I agree that you should complete at least a few classes before you decide on a platform. If it's a through class, there will be sections on choosing the best products for your indended use. This way you won't blindely spend 20k and still not be happy. I've used many platforms over the years, and with todays technologies it's a very exciting time to study sound engineering. I am currently using protools HD7 with a 192 I/O and a control 24. Here is a good place to research and buy PT systems.

http://www.sweetwater.com

Also, I don't know if you've made any finale decisions for your education. But let me make a recomendation.

http://www.berkleemusic.com/
http://www.berkleymusic.com
It took me a little over 2 years and I'm just finishing up my Masters in Guitar and Production. I can't say enough great things about this orginization. Please take some time and explore their web site.

Good luck with your new carrer choice. It's really a blessing to be able to do what you love all day every day.



Rob