...And Justice For All

[tedvanfrehley]

I dug this out to listen to today and I had forgotten what a classic metal album this one was. Then it hit me, the similarities between JUSTICE and the recent release that we all KNOW (even if we don't LOVE...), ST ANGER. I have a point here. After much thought (I work in sales, and you have a lot of time to think when you drive 200 miles a day) I have come to realize just how closely these two albums relate. First, the dreaded DRUM SOUND. Remember when you first put on Justice and thought, "What the fuck is Lars doing???? That sounds like utter shit." Or at least I did. Then, the songs were heavy and riffy but not at all like something off of Master or anything before. Then, the dreaded ONE video came out and many fans cried sellout. Fast forward to 2003. People who hadn't completely written off the mighty Metallica picked up ST ANGER and again said, "WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THE DRUMS?!?!?!?" The songs are longer, but again with a completely different feel. And the same people that were crying sellout are still bitching and moaning louder than ever because this album didn't sound like KILL EM ALL. Well, as a lyric in Justice states, "moving back instead of forward seems to me absurd". I am giving new props to Metallica on behalf of their finding a happy medium with St Anger. On one hand, it is more brutal and nothing near LOAD territory, but to have gone back and remade KILL EM ALL would have just been to try nothing new.

WHAT IS MY POINT? I guess I find it frustrating that so many people now hate Metallica....one of the greatest metal bands of all time. Everybody loves a certain band and then hates them when they get big and the music changes. What if DARK FUNERAL or freakin' VENOM got huge? A band that is still putting out records 20 years after its inception is to be applauded and one should expect them to change a bit. Music comes from people's souls and life experiences. If your life hasn't changed at all in 20 years, then you most certainly SHOULD still be working at Burger King, smoking pot in the restroom and plotting to sneek out of your parents' house at night to listen to, what else?!?! KILL EM ALL.

Taking the 'tallica back,
Ted

 

[sixxswine]

I "like" that record, I was disappointed that it had no bottom end. I was like "where the hell is Newsted?!" I like a lot of the songs, they were the shit back in '88. Overall a decent release, post Burton. You ever wonder where the band would be if Cliff hadn't died?! Would they have gone the "hard rock" route? Would they have done the symphony thing?

 

[tedvanfrehley]

Good point, sir. I think if Cliff were still alive they would have gone in a more "prog" type direction. I know Cliff loved the Misfits and stuff like that, but wasn't it Cliff who pushed for the "ORION" type trippy stuff? I think that they only would have gotten BETTER with each album with Cliff still involved, but I bet each album would still be a LOT different than the last. KILL EM ALL, to RIDE THE LIGHTNING...big difference, and then MASTER....wow. Know what I mean?
T

 

[biozombie_uk]

Its funny you bring up the metallica hate thing it got me thinking it all really started when the black album was released remember all the shit it got for being too commercial? I personally love the black album yeah it was commercial and yeah its not thrash but its still a bloody great metal album!!!!!

 

[Psychonaut]

I think Metallica brought a lot of the "Sellout" gloom on themselves. I believe it was the Cliff 'em All video that they did (I haven't seen it in at least ten years) where they were proclaiming that they didn't need videos or any of that shit to be big. People remember shit like that and when the quality of the product goes down, they jump on stuff like that.

Also, I liked Justice when it first came out and still do. However, I'm no Nostradomus but I do predict that I will never like St. Anger. I found it agonizing to sit through the album one time. I'm sure my tastes have changed a bit but I couldn't find anything worth it on that album. They're just not hungry anymore. They're sober, rich, and happy and it's dulled their edge.

I still like, and will always, everything up to the Black Album by them.

 

[tedvanfrehley]

I respect your honesty, Psychonaut. You have balls as big as church bells. You are a great man. I see your point. I'm just saying that even after the comments Lars and Co. made about videos, etc....as the years go by it's hard not to change. In all honesty I just thought that this subject would get a lot of posts! hehe
Don't lose all hope on me, as I'm still discovering King Diamond. But if I by some KD, then YOU , sir, have got to buy some TED NUGENT. It'll set you free.
Ted

 

[JonnyD]

I dug this out to listen to today and I had forgotten what a classic metal album this one was. Then it hit me, the similarities between JUSTICE and the recent release that we all KNOW (even if we don't LOVE...), ST ANGER. I have a point here. After much thought (I work in sales, and you have a lot of time to think when you drive 200 miles a day) I have come to realize just how closely these two albums relate. First, the dreaded DRUM SOUND. Remember when you first put on Justice and thought, "What the fuck is Lars doing???? That sounds like utter shit." Or at least I did. Then, the songs were heavy and riffy but not at all like something off of Master or anything before. Then, the dreaded ONE video came out and many fans cried sellout. Fast forward to 2003. People who hadn't completely written off the mighty Metallica picked up ST ANGER and again said, "WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THE DRUMS?!?!?!?" The songs are longer, but again with a completely different feel. And the same people that were crying sellout are still bitching and moaning louder than ever because this album didn't sound like KILL EM ALL. Well, as a lyric in Justice states, "moving back instead of forward seems to me absurd". I am giving new props to Metallica on behalf of their finding a happy medium with St Anger. On one hand, it is more brutal and nothing near LOAD territory, but to have gone back and remade KILL EM ALL would have just been to try nothing new.

WHAT IS MY POINT? I guess I find it frustrating that so many people now hate Metallica....one of the greatest metal bands of all time. Everybody loves a certain band and then hates them when they get big and the music changes. What if DARK FUNERAL or freakin' VENOM got huge? A band that is still putting out records 20 years after its inception is to be applauded and one should expect them to change a bit. Music comes from people's souls and life experiences. If your life hasn't changed at all in 20 years, then you most certainly SHOULD still be working at Burger King, smoking pot in the restroom and plotting to sneek out of your parents' house at night to listen to, what else?!?! KILL EM ALL.

Taking the 'tallica back,
Ted

Ted you make an excelent point lol theres nothing more to add to that you are absolutely right

 

[JonnyD]

Its funny you bring up the metallica hate thing it got me thinking it all really started when the black album was released remember all the shit it got for being too commercial? I personally love the black album yeah it was commercial and yeah its not thrash but its still a bloody great metal album!!!!!

you make a good point too The Black album is awsome I love it and I prolly always will it is a classik peice of work

 

[JonnyD]

I "like" that record, I was disappointed that it had no bottom end. I was like "where the hell is Newsted?!" I like a lot of the songs, they were the shit back in '88. Overall a decent release, post Burton. You ever wonder where the band would be if Cliff hadn't died?! Would they have gone the "hard rock" route? Would they have done the symphony thing?

WOW everybody here make some excelent points that is the only thing I dont like about Justice ..... Where the hell is the Bass lol other than that it is one of my Favorite metal albums "The frayed ends of sanity" still crushes my skull to this day .... if cliff had survived who knows lol ppl would prolly still hate them

 

[Psychonaut]

I respect your honesty, Psychonaut. You have balls as big as church bells. You are a great man. I see your point. I'm just saying that even after the comments Lars and Co. made about videos, etc....as the years go by it's hard not to change. In all honesty I just thought that this subject would get a lot of posts! hehe
Don't lose all hope on me, as I'm still discovering King Diamond. But if I by some KD, then YOU , sir, have got to buy some TED NUGENT. It'll set you free.
Ted

Sweaty Teddy? Any old schooler that doesn't have the Spirit Of The Wild in him is missing out. I met the dude about three years ago too. He's something else. He's so full of energy it seems he going to explode at any minute. Funny you should mention his name because I just saw he has that show Surviving Nugent on VH-1. He's just a freakin wild man!

Also, you made a great point about change. Yeah, Metallica have changed and for the better in some people's opinion. I just didn't agree with it as well as others. Had they done what they said and not promoted like they do and made videos, they probably would have washed out a long time ago.

 

[Weapon X]

I think everything up to the Black album was great; after that there were individual songs that were good. St. Anger album isn't my cup of tea. I think it would be a better album done in a more traditional way.

I don't slam Metallica for doing videos, but I understand why people would. Most of their videos are well done, artsey or capture the mood of the song itself, with exclusion of maybe I Disappear.

Everybody that wishes Metallica was the old Metallica thinks that if Cliff was still alive then Metallica would of stayed on the Metal track. I don't think it would of been that way, Cliff would of changed with Metallica or left the band to do something more his way. James and Lars out number Cliff. It's all speculation anyways, who really knows what would of happened.

 

[Deconstruction]

Its funny you bring up the metallica hate thing it got me thinking it all really started when the black album was released remember all the shit it got for being too commercial? I personally love the black album yeah it was commercial and yeah its not thrash but its still a bloody great metal album!!!!!

Amen, dude. You and ted both make really good points. As for the Load albums... *prepares to be flamed* I like 'em. Granted, they weren't what we were used to hearing from Metallica.... but they were still good. Yeah, they probably should've done things a little differently.... but hey... at least the Load albums still had guitar solos, right? I dunno... I just liked 'em. They got some REALLY bad press for 'em, but they weren't complete atrocities...

 

[biozombie_uk]

Amen, dude. You and ted both make really good points. As for the Load albums... *prepares to be flamed* I like 'em. Granted, they weren't what we were used to hearing from Metallica.... but they were still good. Yeah, they probably should've done things a little differently.... but hey... at least the Load albums still had guitar solos, right? I dunno... I just liked 'em. They got some REALLY bad press for 'em, but they weren't complete atrocities...

I feel slightly sorry for em as there in a no win situation if they had put out another Load/R Load type album they would still get shit so they tryed to get back to being heavy again with St Anger but IMO failed big time.

Was it just me or did anyone else have a chuckle when they heard Frantic tick tick tick tick tock

 

[JonnyD]

I feel slightly sorry for em as there in a no win situation if they had put out another Load/R Load type album they would still get shit so they tryed to get back to being heavy again with St Anger but IMO failed big time.

Was it just me or did anyone else have a chuckle when they heard Frantic tick tick tock tick...

lol that was pretty silly ...... but yes your right they are in a no win situation I mean what if they did make say Kill'em all part 2 People would hate it just the same, People would hate it because they were rehashing their old sound lol but even if every album they do now still bombs they will still be the biggest Metal band in the world thats just how it is lol Its hard to get to the top lol its even harder to stay there Metallica has staying power they could Shit in a cd case (Example:St.Anger) And people will buy it ....... as for the load albums the older I get the more I like em They did some great hard rock on those albums I'v never called those albums sellout albums w/exception of untill it sleeps that was a sellout song!!! if they sold out to anything they sold out to Rock & Roll, as we all know with out R&R we wouldnt have Metal

 

[SLAYER85]

yeah a lot of peoples complaints about this disc are purely production based, the bass was nowhere to be heard, the drums were kind of murky, and the guitars i thought were fairly well attended too, but overall, a most excellent raw metal cd, i like rawness.

 

[SLAYER85]

oh yeah i laugh everytime when i heard "madly in anger w/ you" "fran tic tic tock" and the ba na na naaaaaa naaaaaa on frantic.

 

[JonnyD]

yeah a lot of peoples complaints about this disc are purely production based, the bass was nowhere to be heard, the drums were kind of murky, and the guitars i thought were fairly well attended too, but overall, a most excellent raw metal cd, i like rawness.

yep its the lack of Bass,Drum quality,And guitar solos that makes me dislike that album tho I did say it before at least they made an attempt at being aggressive again I dont totally hate it I like it I just wish it had guitar solos

 

[B L zebub]

being the old fart that i am i cut my teeth on kill em all ride the lightning and master of puppets. Justice was a big change as far i as was concerned and i loved it!
Then came the black album and i didn't particularly like it, but thought it might grow on me, it didn't.
i skipped load and reload after hearing them.
Then came St.Anger. On first listen i thought this is awful!!
second listen and no change, tried again and still couldn't find anything to like about it.
The now infamous drum sound ruined it for me completely!

then i saw them play at leeds festival and OH MY GOD!!!!

Live it sounded awesome!!!

mind you the set was pretty damn good for an old school metallifan!!
lots of old stuff and only 3 songs off the last 3 albums:
fuel
St.Anger
Frantic

which all sounded good!!

From never wanting to see metallica again i have changed my opinion, although still cannot listen to the last 3 albums!

but thats just me old and set in my ways

 

[Hell Mike]

About St. Anger: If they wanted it to sound like it was recorded in a garage, then why the hell didn't they record it in a gareage witha fucking tape recorder on the ground?

 

[Tavaron]

About St. Anger: If they wanted it to sound like it was recorded in a garage, then why the hell didn't they record it in a gareage witha fucking tape recorder on the ground?

Exactly.