Another guitar tracking question

[Genius Gone Insane]

So I'm about to record my second band (this time a METAL band :Spin: ). Again, I'm not going to charge them any $$. Last time around, I just had 2 rhythm guitars coming out of 5150 + TS9. This time I'd like to blend in a second amp to get 4 tracks. The guitarist has a Line 6 that he wants to use and it actually sounded pretty good when I heard them rehearse.

I doubt that the player is tight enough to track 4 quality takes. Well, maybe he is but I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there and spend a day punching in guitars for free. I'm going to assume that he can't do it.

Let's suppose he nails 2 tracks. (There's a lot more room for error with only 2 rhythm tracks instead of 4, we all know that.) When I reamp the 2 tracks, how bad will the phasing be if I use the same track for 2 different amps? Is there a way to do it where the phasing will be minimal? I know we addressed this in a similar thread a while back but I couldn't find it. Thanks!

 

[Kazrog]

You won't necesarilly get phasing since the amps are intrinsically different sound sources at that point, but you won't get the full effect of 4 tightly tracked rhythm guitars either. It will sound like 2 guitar performances sent through 2 amps each instead.

 

[jamesboyd]

if the recording is 'pro' as far as seperation and clarity goes- 2 gtr tracks will sound loser than 4.

yes getting 4 rhy tracks perfectly n'sync is an artform but even if it's done half-assed the 4 different takes 'smooth' out the inconsistency of the player.

with only 2 tracks panned hard left and right as soon as one track wavers timing wise you hear it, and your imaging get's outa whack.

2 cents........

 

[kaomao]

You won't necesarilly get phasing since the amps are intrinsically different sound sources at that point, but you won't get the full effect of 4 tightly tracked rhythm guitars either. It will sound like 2 guitar performances sent through 2 amps each instead.

Well last nevermore is 2 track of Krank Revolution and 2 of Dual, to my ears the result is a really tight sound, really heavy.
In the end andy record each riff 4 times:
one 100% left
one 80 %left
one 100% right
one 80% right
that is the wall of sound, no matter what amps!
Maybe 4 different would be killer who knows

Maurizio

 

[Dushan S]

So I'm about to record my second band (this time a METAL band :Spin: ). Again, I'm not going to charge them any $$. Last time around, I just had 2 rhythm guitars coming out of 5150 + TS9. This time I'd like to blend in a second amp to get 4 tracks. The guitarist has a Line 6 that he wants to use and it actually sounded pretty good when I heard them rehearse.

I doubt that the player is tight enough to track 4 quality takes. Well, maybe he is but I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there and spend a day punching in guitars for free. I'm going to assume that he can't do it.

Let's suppose he nails 2 tracks. (There's a lot more room for error with only 2 rhythm tracks instead of 4, we all know that.) When I reamp the 2 tracks, how bad will the phasing be if I use the same track for 2 different amps? Is there a way to do it where the phasing will be minimal? I know we addressed this in a similar thread a while back but I couldn't find it. Thanks!

You can getaway with some easy editing after recording. In metal music, most of the times, every piece of music is played twice, most of the times. So you can take 4 bars of guitar riff, cut it in a half, and then copy to other track but, switch their positions, so that second part goes first and first goes second. Or if he plays two of the same verses, you can use second verse as doubling guitar for first verse on other channel and vice versa.
But it does depend on material, if song is complicated and has a lot of parts, or if drummer is not playing with click track, that is hard or impossible to do.

Anyway you can record two tracks for first amp, and then make copies and switch their sides for other pair of reamped guitars, they will sound better then leaving same guitar on the same side but with different amp sound.

 

[marcust]

Hello,
here some of my experiences with guitar layering
if you use the direct signal (with the recorded track) you know the signal you can use for re-amping and
run this again through another amp (and than blend it) well it tried this didn't sound fatter at all only louder ...
the fatness or thickness whatever you want to call it comes from double or tripple tracking (or maybe even more!!!)
what you could try though i read something about this is get a splitter and feed the signal through two amps mic them differently eq them differently and then do this again with the second track also different set-up and see if that works out for you !

 

[Kazrog]

Well last nevermore is 2 track of Krank Revolution and 2 of Dual, to my ears the result is a really tight sound, really heavy.
In the end andy record each riff 4 times:
one 100% left
one 80 %left
one 100% right
one 80% right
that is the wall of sound, no matter what amps!
Maybe 4 different would be killer who knows

Maurizio

Yes but Nevermore used 4 unique performances, they didn't just reamp 2 performances through the 2 amps.

 

[kaomao]

Yes but Nevermore used 4 unique performances, they didn't just reamp 2 performances through the 2 amps.

that's what I said "In the end andy record each riff 4 times"
He records 4 different performance
I say again: maybe 4 different amps would be killer, I have to try ehhehe

Maurizio

 

[Kazrog]

that's what I said "In the end andy record each riff 4 times"
He records 4 different performance
I say again: maybe 4 different amps would be killer, I have to try ehhehe

Maurizio

I know you said that, I was just re-stating that this is different than what Genius Gone Insane is talking about.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

doh

anyway...

to my knowledge adam from tool does 2 takes with 3 amps miked in different ways, if ya like tool's sound then I guess you should try it.