any body like spiral architect

Spiral Architect's album is trully excellent, with "Insect" being the absolute highlight.

BUT they sound exactly like Watchtower - with a modern production and sound - and the vocalist sounds exactly like Buddy Lackey. I don't mind that at all, really, but it would have been admitedly better with a little more personality of their own.

Zero Hour's "The Towers Of Avarice" is OK, but nothing that drives me crazy.
 
I can´t say that Spiral Architect and Watchtower are not related, they are. Very much. But I wouldn´t say that they sound exactly equal. There´s a lot of elements that make both Watchtower and SA unique for me. SA is slightly less thrashy than Watchtower and the vocal lines are different. If we go further, we´ll find more differencies.
 
It's subtle (I didn't hear it at first), but I actually think they have more in common with Cynic than WatchTower.
 
I'm definitely interested in hearing a new Spiral Architect album! In fact I was just now listening to their cover of Fates Warning's A Prelude to Ruin.

Anyways, they played live at ProgPower in 2000. Some people have live footage of that. Any other live Spiral Architect bootlegs out there? I've heard they've covered of Watchtower's Mayday In Kiev and Anarchy Divine (another Fates song).
 
Spiral Architect is a lot more in the vein of Cynic than Watchtower. Saying they're "exactly" like Watchtower is retarded.

And to think that Zero Hour aren't technical is also insane. Not technical? Give me a fucking break.
 
Hmm, curious, do you play an instrument? Believe me, I'm not saying this from a high horse and such, because I'm no world-class musician, but I can see how someone who doesn't play an instrument could think so.

Really, Zero Hour is quite simple, unless you're having extreme troubles dealing with odd/compound meters. Not simple compared to AC/DC, but very simple compared to many other bands in the prog metal genre (not even going to bring up the technical metal genre). Again, I don't put any quality judgement into the simple/technical thing here. There aren't even any polymeters to speak of... everyone starts and stop at the same time. The actual song structure (I'm using singular because they're only using one structure over and over again) is simplistic and minimalistic as well, so there's no complexity there either.

If you do play, well, then I just don't know...

Asgeir, a little help please? Anyone? ):

Edit: But then again, I guess you'll come a long way in "educating" people by repeating things like this, ad infinitum:
Zero Hour represent the cutting edge of tech metal.
[...] intricate
[...] complex progressive metal
- lasercd.com
 
We tend to sound too obsessed with the word technical that it may look that TECHNICAL means GOOD, no. It is just- as Taedium said-, if you just want to tell everyone that you are technical just be sure that you really are. Several bands do not call them selves technical and still write excellent songs, it is a matter of taste enjoying it. Once I mentioned to a friend that I found the latest ( at that time ) Shadow Gallery cd to be tech metal and I was not sure of the description just used it because SG ( which I love ) was not as simple as metal bands but they were still heavy. So I said something that was not correct and my friend simply clarified it. I love Iron Maiden or Skyclad or AC/DC but I would not dare to say that´s because of TECHs. Within the scope of technical metal we assume that the artists that adopt this style or plan to write technical music just are after more complex music patterns. For example, check out both the way SA makes use of complex tempo , musicians trying polyrhytms and non modal harmony. Or how Jarzombek looks and researchs for ways of writting a song. I enjoy simple music and I think their merit must be credited because they write songs that we enjoy. Given all this, I can´t say that ZH is complex like hell like many said, it is as complex as any prog metal band can be. What I did hear of their music didn´t sound me good.
 
Hey Taedium:

I stopped taking your posts seriously long ago, so I'm not at all surprised by your "ZH ain't technical blah blah" comment. No worries.

You sure know much better than Ken Golden and the ZH guys what makes something technical, so why should I bother explaining you shit? ZH plays a signature mix of TECHNICAL prog metal with huge emphasis on songwriting quality, something hundreds of tech bands lack. They're not about writing complex-for-the-sake-of-complex material while jerking off on the neck of the guitar.

Sure they're not Spiral Architect, but they ARE technical. People like yourself will never admit to it.
 
No man, Meshuggah is quite complex rythimically speaking. Frederik Thordental soloing is also another great aspect. Hey Batmura, Taedium is just saying that ZH basically writes music using well known standards inside prog metal ( let´s say, fifth power chords added of a 9th, 7/4 or 7/8 tempo, time changes ) which unfortunately have given the prog metal genre a lot of sense of stillness. Some people simply overact their descriptions of "technicality" and if I am not mistaken, this is what bothers him. Let me give you another example. I am big fan of bands like Forbidden and Mekong Delta, which are complex and technical compared to their other parts, but you can´t call them highly technical like Watchtower or Cynic for example. Control Denied and Death are 2 of my favorite bands along with Spiral Architect but I have to admit that regarding the technical aspect, SA goes a lot further.
 
Now I see where we disagree.

To me, Mekong Delta is definitely a technical band. As for Forbidden, they also have chops and are a lote more techy than most other thrash bands.

Control Denied and latter day Death are also tech in my books. Just because they aren't more technical than Spiral Architect doesn't change the fact they do have plenty of chops.

Personally I don't care if a band is technical or not. It just seems odd when you call guys like Zero Hour "ordinary" just cause they aren't as over-the-top as SA.

I do agree wholeheartedly that Spiral Architect is more technical from an instrumental point of view though. It's just that you don't have to be as insane as them to be considered tech. They are not the measuring stick for anything.
 
Yeah, Death and Control Denied are very technical. I do agree. The point is being technical or not does not replace our sense of appreciation, which is why I didn´t like ZH rather than any technical aspect. I would not call them "ordinary" though. For example, I love Threshold, but I think they are technically average compared to insane tech metal, but then you are correct to say that it does not matter or it does not change our opinion. I like Skyclad and SA equally if you asked me, I could not say which one I like the most...
 
The antonym to "technical" is not "ordinary". I never called Zero Hour ordinary. It seems this is where the rub lies... You thinking I think ZH is "ordinary" (which is not a word I'd use to describe them) would somehow cheapen your enjoyment of it? Or what?

By the way, you mentioned Meshuggah. When you've figured out Meshuggah's rhythmical concept, the music isn't as daunting anymore (and the rhythm guitars aren't that difficult compared to the drums), but it sure isn't "easy" music, and I wouldn't argue against someone calling them technical. When it comes to Meshuggah the only thing I'd argue about is the incessant misappliance of the word "polyrhythm", by people who don't know what an actual polyrhythm is.. because Meshuggah has very rarely played polyrhythms, and nothing more complex than a 5:4 (there's an argument for a 6:7, but it can be thought of in other ways...)... but that's for another discussion (that I've had way too often). There are more instances of polyrhythmics in Tandjent than Meshuggah, actually. IIRC, even a 7:3 in one track.

And Tandjent and Meshuggah are way more technical than Zero Hour. I have no "agenda" here as you might think, but who cares because you don't take my posts seriously. right?

I don't use SA as THE yardstick either. My yardstick is taking many many bands into regard. And sure, as I've said earlier, a part of the "technical" thing will always be somewhat subjective because it's sadly tied to the "difficulty to perform" thing, and different people have trouble with performing different things in music... but it's far from all subjective... You need to draw the line somewhere... or if we considered ZH "tech metal", then that'd open the door to about... well a thousand other bands that play trickier material, by that virtue alone... I don't like putting bands in genres, but it's a necessary evil and I'd rather not have the same thing happen to tech metal genre that happened with the progmetal genre, wherein you will now have utter powermetal bands playing around. The only time genres are useful, is when they're descriptive and at least somewhat accurately so. Oh yeah, Angra have sooo much in common with Dreamscape, right?

As for Death and Control Denied as you mentioned, the tech here mostly lies in the drums.

Bleh. This is a stupid and useless discussion indeed and it makes it sound like I constantly go around judging bands' level of technicality, which I reaaaaaaaally do not do.

P.S. And yeah, I would say what I've said here has more merit than Ken Golden's word, considering he wrote that incredibly stupid and plain untrue statement saying "Zero Hour represent the cutting edge of tech metal". I like the guy but he deserves to be reprimanded for such... outright transgressions. Or well, yeah, I guess it's marketing speak and the "truth in advertising" seems to work, considering what some people have said here. What Zero Hour themselves know or think, I don't know, and I don't pretend to either assume or even care. D.S.
 
Oh yes sure, once you've got Meshuggah figured out, they're also just a piece of cake.

Since you're so quick to figure out every band out there, why don't you post us some of your extraordinarily complex music, so we rookies can learn a lesson.

What a prick.
 
Man, what the fuck is your problem? You completely didn't read a word what I said about Meshuggah. YOU'RE the one on the high horse here. "Do it better yourself." How utterly predictable and fit for kindergarten. Will your dad beat mine up too?

How about this: How about you make a post that's better than mine, to begin with? This petulant behaviour is quite tiring.

I've wasted enough words on someone who doesn't even read them. Go on living in your plastic bubble where a 7/8 is a mind-boggingly creative and difficult-to-play time signature, I don't care anymore. And people like you review music? I guess Zappa was right, again.
 
Like I said, the day I start taking your snotty know-it-all type of posts seriously, I'll take the time to reply. Till then, you're just a waste of my time and a fucking idiot who thinks he's got all bands figured out better than the band and their labels. Jackass.
 
They only seem know-it-all because you're a know-nothing. I'm done.

[Edit] Well, a shame a thread dedicated to such a great band degraded into this bicker fest, and I'm sad I had any part in it.
 
The thing with polyrhythmics in rock started with King Crimson, Yes and many prog rock artists. They mainly used 3/4 played together with a 4/4 or a 5/4 over a 4/4. Well, it is not easy to play it that way personally speaking, specially if you´re writting a song. Check out KC "3 of a perfect pair", however it brought a new way to write songs. Some tech metal artists just make it insane, which is cool as well.