any body like spiral architect

[Taedium Vitae]

Well, again I'll be the know-it-all bastard (I should have my title changed) for pointing out a few facts. But hey, it's not my fault it's true

zlogdan: You're thinking of polymeters. They're not the same thing as polyrhythms. You're right in saying KC have used polyrhythms though. Probably most notably on THRAK.

Polyrhythmics isn't that prevalent in tech metal at all, which is a bit of a shame because I like it a lot. I guess many people brought up on popular music would think they sound too weird, or just plain "not in time"/random.

 

[zlogdan]

Hey, it is essentially the same man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm

 

[Taedium Vitae]

Actually, it's not at all the same, zlogdan. You can read the article on Steve Vai's site for a bit more insight... I'm very tired of trying to explain the difference between polymetrics and polyrhythmics over and over again on forums (and I'm not awesomely good at explaining it so it's easy to understand either), so we could take it off-board if you're really interested some day?

There's a problem in the literary definition being very broad, insufficient and not detailed enough... the musical definition isn't quite so filled with grey areas... that's what confusing people I think. And yeah, I understand it's not easy to know the difference beforehand; took me a while as well.

I'm not saying the Wikipedia article is wrong, because it's not wrong at all.

Here's a quickie notation:

Polymeter: 5/4 over 4/4

1                   2                   3                   4
|                   |                   |                   |
O---o---o---o---o---O---o---o---o---o---O---o---o---o---o---O---o---o---o---o---
X---x---x---x---X---x---x---x---X---x---x---x---X---x---x---x---X---x---x---x---
|               |               |               |               |
1               2               3               4               5

It takes 4 bars of 5/4 and 5 bars of 4/4 for them to resolve on the 1. All note values are the same.

Polyrhythm: 5:4 ("5 over 4 polyrhythm")

X---x---x---x---x---
O----o----o----o----

These two rhythms will resolve in 1 bar. The note values will be a ratio compared to the other rhythm... that is, if you isolated these two rhythms,

X---x---x---x---x---

and

O----o----o----o----

and made all beats in them quarter notes, you would have 2 different tempos.

Probably not the best explanation ever... and just seeing it in text probably doesn't explain it very well... without hearing it.

Are you familiar with Pain of Salvation's Fandango? That song has a 4:5 polyrhythm (4 over 5) in the chorus.

 

[lasercd]

P.S. And yeah, I would say what I've said here has more merit than Ken Golden's word, considering he wrote that incredibly stupid and plain untrue statement saying "Zero Hour represent the cutting edge of tech metal". I like the guy but he deserves to be reprimanded for such... outright transgressions.

OUCH!!!

Ken Golden

 

[Taedium Vitae]

Hi Ken, and welcome to the bitchy discussion! Consider yourself reprimanded in the sternest of ways.
: D

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

The job of labels isn't listening to and being experts at music, it's selling albums. The job of bands is making music, not listening to music. Neither of those people are really who I go to for definitive music knowledge. I go to them for the things they're great at.

 

[Taliwakker]

Well this has been an interesting read
I like SA in small doses...and Lars K Norberg comes up with some awesome basslines. Definately wouldn't use 'A Sceptics Universe' as a soundtrack to a night of sex with the mrs.
Is Zero Hour tech metal?...i'd say probably more prog metal....but sometimes its hard to tell whats what these days genre wise.

 

[zlogdan]

Hey Taedium, you will have to explain me better out of here one day. I was after the Steve Vai article and I got confused again heheheh. Anyways, I love what´s called polymeters like on KC´s 3 of a perfect pair...

 

[Neurotic]

some of you guys need to chill out lol.
not all music needs to be super technical. i can´t listen to spastic ink everyday heh
i actually love zero hour - towers of avarice album , great feel, good songwriting imo (not looking too forward for the next one, that song at laseredge site in nothing special)
and yes SA is much more technical and a awesome band but i actually like zero hour more pP
good to see ppl talking about king crimson , love that band \m/
about the poly discutions, i have a slight notion of it but i admit i´m not the best person to explain it eheh