any drummers do the heel toe technique?(i made a video)

[GarethSE]

damn brian
you're tight as fuck

 

[nwright]

It's hard to tell from the video, but do you feel as though you are hitting the drum as hard as you do in single strokes, it kinda sounds like you might not?

Also, It seems like this technique, especially if used to the point where your feet cramp/fatigue, etc. would actually be a detriment in that it would sound really uneven? Although it seems as if you got it down it could actually reduce fatigue as the movement is more fluid, producing faster hits with less "work"? I'm not a drummer, so I have no real idea.

Cool technique and video though. Watching you drummers always impresses me. Watching our drummer do gravity blasts is still something I oogle at.

Actually, this technique reminds me of gravity blasts on snare, in a sense...

 

[SuperD]

Awesome video ! Well done. Absolutely cool to watch.
As for the posture comments, right on the money...it matters MUCH.
Too many drummers I've seen have the seat too low. Guess it makes the cymbals seem higher/cooler? Dunno why so low.
But it is detrimental (understatement) to technique and stamina.
The critical relationship is between the hip and knee. If the knee at it's highest point in a stroke is above the hip joint (or in most cases even level with the hip...), a whole lot of energy has been wasted. Simple leverage...but really important to stamina in particular.
And every drummer I suggested might want to raise his seat argued.
meh, whaddya gonna do, it's his band's money he's spending in the studio...I don't waste too much of my time on that.
Plenty gets wasted on re-takes tho'.

 

[brianhood]

I'm really struggling with my seat height at the moment.

I've heard right angled knees are best, but if I have it like that, my right hand keeps hitting my leg when I go for the snare. So I raise my seat, then raise my snare a bit. Still having troubles, I'm quite awkward around the kit. Having big toms (12, 13, 16) doesn't help either.

i definitely keep my knees at right angles. If i sit any higher, i cant do the heel toe technique at all for whatever reason.

What i do is raise my snare to a hight where i'm not hitting my hands on my legs. you have to play with your elbows a little higher, and at first you have to constantly struggle to not only hit the rim of the snare, but it's a much better setup after a while. Also, try to keep your snare perfectly level....not tilted towards you tons(i use to do that)

It's hard to tell from the video, but do you feel as though you are hitting the drum as hard as you do in single strokes, it kinda sounds like you might not?

Also, It seems like this technique, especially if used to the point where your feet cramp/fatigue, etc. would actually be a detriment in that it would sound really uneven? Although it seems as if you got it down it could actually reduce fatigue as the movement is more fluid, producing faster hits with less "work"? I'm not a drummer, so I have no real idea.

Cool technique and video though. Watching you drummers always impresses me. Watching our drummer do gravity blasts is still something I oogle at.

Actually, this technique reminds me of gravity blasts on snare, in a sense...

I'd say i can do it just about as loud(if not louder) and as evenly as i can with single strokes(at least at higher speeds). I can't keep up high speeds with single strokes, so i'm way better off(and using much less energy) doing double strokes.
Also, triggers even all the velocities out live, so as long as i hit it hard enough for the trigger to register the hit, then i'm good to go. That usually requires my to put the gain on My Alesis DM5 up to about 90 or 91 if i want to go any faster than 16ths at 210bpm though

 

[Everybody]

It seriously took me 3 hours of practice per day for 30 days straight to get to where i could pull it off fairly consistently. Then it took another 30 days of tour to be able to play it well enough to not completely embarrass myself trying to do it live.
Now i can do weird patterns and fun stuff with it maybe i'll make that my next video

wow! thats dedication haha
I tryed a double bass practice routine but fell off after the first month and only practices 30 mins a day

that would be awesome if you made another video, i enjoyed this one a lot!

-Zach

 

[beyond dead]

My understanding is the technique originated in the jazz swing era,and may have been influenced by tap dancing.
)

that ruined it for me. I hate drummers with their little ballet booties and axis long boards. I record them all the time.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Yo Hood!

Killer video.
I don't play drums but it's SO FUCKING GREAT to see a drummer that knows what's up.

 

[digitaldeath]

Regarding posture, I tend to sit fairly high but certainly do not keep my legs at right angles. Brian even mentions the 'burning' he gets over extended periods of fast double-bass playing.
I use a drum rack to keep my toms close to me and I actually move the bass drum further out (or my throne further back if possible) than most drummers and play at an angle >90 degrees, prob 120-130 degrees. Much more comfortable for extended periods of double-bass playing in my opinion. There's no harm in seeing if it makes a difference for you.

 

[slashvanyoung]

I've seen George Kollias demonstrating this once, it was interesting to see that his feet are constantly moving sideways/sliding across the pedal...

There's some vid out there I think.

 

[digitaldeath]

I've seen George Kollias demonstrating this once, it was interesting to see that his feet are constantly moving sideways/sliding across the pedal...

There's some vid out there I think.

Sounds like you're describing the swivel technique in which you use the ball of your foot to swivel your heel to the right, then to the left and so on, striking (or doubles) after each swivel.
This is not the heel-toe technique.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Maybe... I'm so not a drummer. Kollias mentioned heel-toe while doing this, though.

Edit: Yeah, you were right. It's that swivel technique.

 

[digitaldeath]

Maybe... I'm so not a drummer. Kollias mentioned heel-toe while doing this, though.

I'm pretty sure I saw Vinnie Paul do the swivel technique when recording "Becoming" perhaps you should have a look on YouTube for that and compare it to George Kollias's method. I'm in work at the moment (YouTube's blocked) so I'm afraid I can't have a look for you.

EDIT: Just saw your edit! lol!

I'm more interested in how Brian keeps those heavy-ass DW beaters in place as my hammers always seem to become loose no matter how hard I tighten them. It looks like he had memory clamps on the beaters just above the standard Axis screw (that holds them in place).
My beaters always seem to fall down, or in the case of the DW beaters, they just fly off! I'm a pretty fast, hard hitter (single strokes all the way) but am thinking that I'll need to put these kinda locks above and below the standard Axis lock as it just doesn't seem to do the job!

 

[Styvo]

I'm really struggling with my seat height at the moment.

I've heard right angled knees are best, but if I have it like that, my right hand keeps hitting my leg when I go for the snare. So I raise my seat, then raise my snare a bit. Still having troubles, I'm quite awkward around the kit. Having big toms (12, 13, 16) doesn't help either.

Man that's cool,it shouldn't stop you from exploring the intrument and having fun whilst been challenged to develope yourself further as a player.
One of the general rules i apply stolen ofcourse off Neil Peart,is circular motion.
You want the relationship from your ass,to your feet on the kick drum pedals to feel relaxed and have even weight ditribution.You want to be siting more on the front end of the drum stool as opposed to having your ass hanging off the back end.
This is important it's your base,it's where all your motion comes from and that should include a straight back,with elbows down by your side in a relaxed position.
Alot of the work will include most upper body muscles to be used arms,shoulders,elbows and hand wrist.But the idea is to make the relationship between drumplayer,with drum sticks in his hands,with the drumkit flow musically and rhythmically.
You want to get anything that's in the way,out of the way of this process.
Too many angles on toms,constantly hitting things etc etc
You need to give yourself space because your leading from the top half of your posture.
Your snare should always be your centre and around the height of your naval.Thats where our naval chakra is and it's our centre of gravity.You should focus a relaxed breathing state,from this centre part of your body and we have our starting point.
When you relax and breath and play from this centre,you automatically play way better.
Then you want to have your drums positioned around you that works with this energy.Music is power and drumming is one of the leading sources of that power.
Tune your drums so they sound good,it helps connect in with you,and use correct grip.
You want the centre to flow from the root(correct seating)up through the spine to the shoulders and arms through the wrists flowing from hi hat to lowest tom in a way thats harmonious effortless and natural to your body.

I know i've raved on but i hope that by sharing some of the above with you,you overcome the issues you mentioned and potentially some of the guys troubled with there opposite feet find something worthwhile thinking about.

I can't stress enough how important it is,to have discipline and the correct attitude when troubled by issues be it drum tech or real life.

 

[abyssofdreams]

I hate drummers with their little ballet booties and axis long boards.

+infinity

 

[Styvo]

that ruined it for me. I hate drummers with their little ballet booties and axis long boards. I record them all the time.

I'd take that any day over some slouch with a poorly tuned kit that want's to sound like blink 182

 

[brianhood]

that ruined it for me. I hate drummers with their little ballet booties and axis long boards. I record them all the time.

huh?

Regarding posture, I tend to sit fairly high but certainly do not keep my legs at right angles. Brian even mentions the 'burning' he gets over extended periods of fast double-bass playing.
I use a drum rack to keep my toms close to me and I actually move the bass drum further out (or my throne further back if possible) than most drummers and play at an angle >90 degrees, prob 120-130 degrees. Much more comfortable for extended periods of double-bass playing in my opinion. There's no harm in seeing if it makes a difference for you.

the burning just means i'm doing it right I can go much longer than i did in the video before it burns too much to keep going.
Before i did heel toe, i did sit really high too. I think sitting higher helps with regular heel up LRLR double bass.

Maybe... I'm so not a drummer. Kollias mentioned heel-toe while doing this, though.

Edit: Yeah, you were right. It's that swivel technique.

That guy is unnatural haha Very very good at LRLR double bass(muuuccchhh bettter than me). He's almost as bad at explaning stuff as i am though haha
almost...

 

[John_C]

that ruined it for me. I hate drummers with their little ballet booties and axis long boards. I record them all the time.

what are you trying to say?

that they're bad drummers?

 

[digitaldeath]

I'm looking forward to trying this technique out on my Longboards. I only knew of the Heel-Toe technique in which your entire foot it on the pedalboard (I got big feet which makes it difficult for me) but I gotta try out your heel-toe technique, it'd make life so much easier!
I'll report back when I've given it a go.