Anyone heard the new Megadeth track?

[Dead Winter]

Pro Tools has nothing to do with it.

It's his refusal to allow any of the actual, organic sorts of 'mistakes' to enter his mixes. It's picture perfect; devoid of the soul and spirit of humanity, sampled (itself, blatant discarding of the authentic) for maximum impact and minimal verisimilitude. When the carnal spirit and primality of metal music is lost, is it still even 'metal'?

It's scientific. If you want scientific music, listen to beats created by computers. Or Andy Sneap.


I'm gonna listen to some High on Fire.


Suck it.

Hmm, that's exactly why I like it. I don't think Sneap should be producing albums for dirty, minimalist, or primal bands. That said, I don't want to hear an album by High on Fire, Mastodon, or any doomy, drudgy type band produced by Sneap. That type of music should be more organic. I think there's a place for everything, and mistakes and an organic sound do NOT belong on a Megadeth release. That's just my opinion.

Much of the music I enjoy is soulless and I like to keep it that way. I want it pristine, cold, and completely bereft of the human stain. There are too many bands whose "art" is touted as the greatest thing ever when all it boils down to is laziness and lack of skill. It's like modern art; put a turd in a candlestick holder, stick it in a museum, and people will fawn all over you for how much of a creative genius you are (this was actually done by an Italian artist making fun of these idiots).

I don't think every band should be completely soulless and scientific, and I think that each band has their place. The problem with those with a more relaxed approach to recording is that they've forgotten that playing sloppily isn't the same as playing dirty because it's your style. Style and lack thereof are two different things.

 

[Liverslapper]

Who listens to megadeth these days?

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

hah yeah

 

[Shpongled]

Yeah this band isn't really even worth discussing to me anymore. Been there done that, they'll never blow me away again. There are so many better, more interesting bands out there to waste time on now.

 

[Anvil]

Drummer sucks, and really, no "feeling" in this stuff... Seems way to synthetic... Too Dave Mustaine-like. Hahaha, oh yea, it's MEGADETH.


What the fuck did any of you expect?

 

[Brooks]

Hmm, that's exactly why I like it. I don't think Sneap should be producing albums for dirty, minimalist, or primal bands. That said, I don't want to hear an album by High on Fire, Mastodon, or any doomy, drudgy type band produced by Sneap. That type of music should be more organic. I think there's a place for everything, and mistakes and an organic sound do NOT belong on a Megadeth release. That's just my opinion.

Much of the music I enjoy is soulless and I like to keep it that way. I want it pristine, cold, and completely bereft of the human stain. There are too many bands whose "art" is touted as the greatest thing ever when all it boils down to is laziness and lack of skill. It's like modern art; put a turd in a candlestick holder, stick it in a museum, and people will fawn all over you for how much of a creative genius you are (this was actually done by an Italian artist making fun of these idiots).

I don't think every band should be completely soulless and scientific, and I think that each band has their place. The problem with those with a more relaxed approach to recording is that they've forgotten that playing sloppily isn't the same as playing dirty because it's your style. Style and lack thereof are two different things.

Just as I don't think every recording of every band should be dirty and primal. There's room for eloquence,composition, and production, and there's room for art. But music, to the listener in it's most purest form, is atmosphere and expression.

I find that the removal of the human element, especially in metal music, removes the vitality of that atmosphere. Imagine sampling and quantizing Bill Wards drumkit on the first Black Sabbath record. It would destroy the harrowing feeling behind the verses "Satan sitting there, he's smiling".

Mistakes don't belong in Megadeth? There's an urgency and power behind those first couple of Megadeth records, and very rarely was anything perfect on those. And I can guarantee I'll be listening to Killing Is My Business... long after whatever tripe smothered in Sneap Sauce gets released this year.

But to be honest, I'm really getting tired of debating the whole Andy Sneap thing. He's not my bag. I wouldn't want my band mixed by him. We'd end up sounding like Andy Sneap, not ourselves.

 

[slashvanyoung]

It's his refusal to allow any of the actual, organic sorts of 'mistakes' to enter his mixes.

I agree on most (almost all) of the points you made, but that is not 100% true. And Nevermore are actually a good example for that: If you listen very closely to the intro of TGE, you will notice some click bleed going on. Andy himself said he indeed noticed that, but the great take was more important to him than total sonic perfection.

Just saying that there are a few chaps out there who are even more anal about robot-like perfection. Guys like Joey Sturgis don't even mic up a drumset anymore, just the overheads. Pocketing every instrument 100% to the grid and autotuning every note to perfection. No real amps, just POD.

Sneap - at least - usually blends the snare and the toms with samples, instead of completely replacing them.

Again, I agree with much of what you're saying but he also did some of my favorite mixes of all time: Dead Heart..., The Gathering, First Strike Still Deadly, Another Lesson In Violence, Tempo Of The Damned. Not so much the most recent work...

Yeah, I would have liked to see a guy like Jens Bogren handling the mixing on this. But they now what they get with Sneap and I personally think his style suits Nevermore's sound in this millennium quite well.

Guys like James Murphy or Logan Mader (remember the latest Gojira?) would have been good alternatives for a polished mix.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Some thoughts on this controversy from Sneap himself:

Pro tools backlash

I had to type something. I keep reading misguided statements about how certain bands wish to record raw, live, no triggers as tho this is a novel concept.

The main reason for having to go the pro tools route these days is lack of rehearsal and song writing not being complete. I can't remember the last time a band came to me with all 4 or 5 band members fully rehearsed, knowing exactly what they should be playing and all fully capable of playing their parts to a professional standard.

The labels maybe partly to blame for this also. The usual scenario is they want 12 songs (4 more than the glory days) all recorded and mixed in less time than we used to get for 8 songs. This also waters down the creative input from the band and you can guarantee there's some scrabbling for lyrics for the obligatory japanese bonus track. The band are usually given 2 months or so to get this all written.

There was a different level of quality in the 80's where you'd go into the studio knowing your parts, practice was the only option and it paid off.

Why am I ranting? Well I see certain bands pointing the finger at me and fellow producers when I know damn well what I put into their albums and how it would have sounded without months of input and hard work from myself. Had said bands come to me with more than 6 songs written lyrically and only half the band knowing the songs we could have taken a different approach.

Basically if you want the old school approach, put the effort in we ALL used to.
I would love nothing more than a band to be able to come into the studio and throw it down live, fully rehearsed, I'm waiting....

 

[Brooks]

Well that's far more reasonable than I was planning on getting from Sneap on this issue. And I suppose it's not fair to blame the circumstances that creates these cookie cutter albums solely on his shoulders - it's a wider music industry problem that expects so much more from artists, who are getting progressively lazier and lazier.

But my interest in Sneap's mixes is still down in the gutter. After the landmark Dead Heart in a Dead World (which after all is said and done, is probably THE benchmark for modern metal production, nearly 10 years later), I haven't heard the man take any chances. Yeah, Tempo of the Damned, First Strike Still Deadly and The Gathering are great too, but look at the material. Grade A stuff, written over YEARS.

There are definitely guys out there in the same 'field' that are transcending the status quo modern metal productions. Listen to the newest Anaal Nathrakh, or Akercocke's Words That Go Unspoken... That's what I like to hear, if fidelity is a hallmark of your metal. I'm still waiting to hear something that catches my ear from Andy.

Take some risks! Annihilate the norm!

 

[Enemy242]

Yeah this isn't bad but its not great either, the solo is definitely the highlight of the song for me. Also agreed on the drummer too, normally I don't like drummers who are so flashy they can't pull it off or take away from the music but the drums on this are just really lame. I loved Headcrusher though so hopefully the rest of the album will be that good.

 

[DarkNoise]

I like Andy's thesis on musician's not being prepared. I'm sure all us guitarists/drummers/vocalists/etc in this forum can attest to the importance of band practice, and how having something absolutely solid before hitting that REC button makes all the difference. Yes, sometimes a sporadic improv is good, but overall there's no excuse to not practice your own damn riff or beat.

You want the artistic credit for creating the music? then YOU create it, and don't leave it up to the record label / producer / whatever to fill in later.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

this would be a good song with an actual skilled drummer behind the kit.
He mixes nothing up in the song. its the same thing per each verse/chorus/solo

Put Gar back there, and watch the fuck out.

 

[DarkNoise]

RIP Gar. Him and Poland really shot Megadeth up fast. Dave can write some good riffs, but with those two behind him, it really helped. Friedman is still the best thing to ever come out of the band in my opnion.

 

[Super Mahrio]

The drums sound...synthesized. Other than that is alright.

 

[Dead Winter]

Why is everyone all over the drummer? Megadeth has never been a Nick Barker, Hellhammer, or Tomas Haake band. That's like getting pissed that it doesn't have a bunch of blastbeats...the drums fit the music.

Megadeth is never going to make anything groundbreaking anymore, as much as I love them. They're going to finish their days trying to match what they did in the early years, and what they did then was a far cry from what's going on now, at least drum-wise. Old thrash metal didn't have great drummers like we do today. Have you ever listened to thrash metal before 1992? The music was tame compared to what we have today. Gar Samuelson was a great drummer because he was a jazz drummer, not a metal drummer...now there are a million drummers like him. In 1985 there weren't. Hell, the only reason people worshiped Lombardo was because at that time he had the fastest feet. Now he probably wouldn't even make the top five. I mean fuckin' Lars Ulrich was considered a fast drummer back in the day...I remember when AJFA came out. It blew our fucking minds because no one else was doing that shit. Now everyone's doing it much better.

Mustaine is playing what he knows. Some call that a good thing, some say it's bad. But it's still Megadeth. I think people who pray for another Rust in Peace are making the fatal mistake of remembering music with rose-colored lenses. We have all grown up and metal has grown up as well...the bar is set way high these days, and the only pleasure these older bands are going to give people is to make something that sounds like their classics, all for reminiscence's sake.

I think Megadeth and the rest of their ilk is the wrong place to look for something groundbreaking. We must enjoy it (or not) for what it is and not what it isn't.

 

[Shpongled]

Why is everyone all over the drummer? Megadeth has never been a Nick Barker, Hellhammer, or Tomas Haake band. That's like getting pissed that it doesn't have a bunch of blastbeats...the drums fit the music.

Megadeth is never going to make anything groundbreaking anymore, as much as I love them. They're going to finish their days trying to match what they did in the early years, and what they did then was a far cry from what's going on now, at least drum-wise. Old thrash metal didn't have great drummers like we do today. Have you ever listened to thrash metal before 1992? The music was tame compared to what we have today. Gar Samuelson was a great drummer because he was a jazz drummer, not a metal drummer...now there are a million drummers like him. In 1985 there weren't.

Mustaine is playing what he knows. Some call that a good thing, some say it's bad. But it's still Megadeth.

This post reminds me of the last time I listened to ...and Justice For All. All I could think was "oh man imagine how much more sick this album would be if Lars could have played like the drummers of today." Seriously, the riffs are fucking ace, the song structures perfect, nice angry vocals. Excellent album overall, but if only there were a better player behind that drum kit....

 

[Dead Winter]

Yeah this isn't bad but its not great either, the solo is definitely the highlight of the song for me. Also agreed on the drummer too, normally I don't like drummers who are so flashy they can't pull it off or take away from the music but the drums on this are just really lame. I loved Headcrusher though so hopefully the rest of the album will be that good.

Yeah and let's face it: Megadeth is a guitar-driven band. As good as his drummers have always been, it's the riffs that we remember.

 

[Dead Winter]

This post reminds me of the last time I listened to ...and Justice For All. All I could think was "oh man imagine how much more sick this album would be if Lars could have played like the drummers of today." Seriously, the riffs are fucking ace, the song structures perfect, nice angry vocals. Excellent album overall, but if only there were a better player behind that drum kit....

Fricken srsly!

I edited my first post with the same sentiment!

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

ha. Menza and Gar tore that shit up.
No simple bleh drums

 

[Dead Winter]

They did tear shit up, though. I was always partial to Menza-era Deth.