Attention United States Citizens

[egan.]

Haven't we already seen the potential for the damage that socialism could do in this country in the mortgage "melt down?"

It's possible that socialism itself is not the danger, but rather the state that would be in control...

Wait, so are you suggesting that too much government intervention caused the mortgage crisis?
I think that there is pretty much a consensus that deregulation is what allowed this to occur. What we are seeing play out is actually the market self-correcting just like the free-market folks thought it would. The problem of course is when it self corrects 40% at a time.
On an aside, it pisses me off when people blame "greed on wall street" for our problems. By it's very definition Wall Street is supposed to pursue wealth within all legal means. Most Americans stake their retirement savings on the continued success of Wall Street greed.
The only way to effectively limit the risks taken is to regulate them.
It's "The Jungle."

 

[Metaltastic]

8th grade? Fuck, I could have NEVER made it through that book then, I read in Soph. year of college!

 

[Skinny Viking]

It's "The Jungle."

I had to read that fucker in the 8th grade

longest book in the history of the world ... I could smell the fucking fertilizer by the time I was done it

 

[egan.]

8th grade? Fuck, I could have NEVER made it through that book then, I read in Soph. year of college!

Yeah I took that line out b/c I thought it made me sound like an asshole. I wish I had an edit post button for daily conversation too.

Point is that the parallels are obvious. The market does self-regulate but not really to anyone's satisfaction except the profiteers.

 

[aberration]

Egan, I seem to remember that beginning with the Clinton administration and continuing into W's reign the government forced the hand of mortgage lenders to extend loans to under-qualified borrowers in the interest of fostering the American Dream (tm). Now, I don't know what that legislation was called, when it was passed, who signed the bill, etc. et al ad nauseum, but that's how I remember it.
I also agree with you and your frustration at the attitude that Wall Street should somehow operate without generating profits. But you know, money is evil and all that...
However, your post also illustrates the razor edge that we're riding - the free market will, eventually, correct most (if not all) anomalies that develop. Those corrections, though theoretically necessary, could be crippling in practice. The answer is regulation to a degree, and it's that degree that we'll never be able to agree on.
Edit: are schools still making kids read "the Jungle?" That's an absolutely necessary read.

 

[egan.]

The piece of legislation you are talking about was the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill which was pushed through a Republican Congress and signed by Clinton. Phil Gramm, an adviser of McCain's, was head of the Senate banking committee and was a strong proponent of this. So there is plenty of blame to go around.

Frankly though, dispite the rhetoric Clinton governed very much toward the center. I don't feel as though he was very progressive at all.

I think if you want a model for reasonable levels of regulation it makes sense to look at Western European nations. The only thing that seems to crash their system is ours. The problem I have with many (not all) conservative American's view points is that there seems to be this arogance that denies we could learn anything from foreign governments.

 

[aberration]

Seriously. Them and the Asian markets.
Thank you for putting a name to that bill and therefore proving that I was not hallucinating. I did not mention Clinton specifically to show any partisan preference, by the way.
I often regret not having taken more political science courses in college, because discussions like this are extremely important and I don't often participate because of my lack of detailed information on the topic. Great reading, though.

 

[aberration]

...is Canada. Come visit some time. Health Care is provided so corporations don't bankrupt working people with outrageous bills. Power companies are regulated so you don't wind up with the situation California was in with the rolling blackouts.

Of course, it has it's downside. Our TV & Radio are regulated for 33.3 % Canadian content... and it's pretty shitty. That fine, everyone just watches US satellite anyway.

How aggressive is Canada being in regards to "alternative energy" production?

I pity anyone who watches American television as the better of two choices.

 

[midget donkeys]

Wow, I really stirred stuff up. I made my original post yesterday while in a very pissed off mood. I apologize to anyone I offended.

Donkey offers truce.

I had just suffered through an employ of a client droning on at work about politics and supporting all his ideas with quotes from the bible. I was unable to avoid his voice or disagree with him since he was representing the customer.

Like many of you I have little confidence in Obama also. I just voted for him because he is not McCain. I would have voted for a muppet if it was on the ticket against the Republican party.

So go hit the polls and pick your poison.

 

[Metaltastic]

So when do the election results come in, anyway?

 

[aberration]

The ride starts at 7:01pm EST.

 

[Metaltastic]

The Ride? Forgive my ignorance, this is the first election I was old enough to vote in and thus care about

 

[aberration]

You think coverage has been intense so far? Just wait until the polls start closing and reporting. From now until probably Friday we'll be dealing with endless conjecture, guesstimating disguised as fact, editorials disguised as reporting...

The Ride.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Can't wait to get home and watch this shit on TV. The prospect of having a non white president (and even a nonmale VP) is pretty fucking amazing. It's kind of like UFOs landing or something.

Cannot believe it's close early in North Carolina. This country is already changing I hope.

 

[Kazrog]

An interesting perspective:



I too was a Ron Paul fan, but ultimately I have voted Obama because I like his stance on the Internet, and McCain is pure evil.

I hope Obama hires a badass economist to advise him on his policies. We don't need to perpetuate the cycle of moronomics any longer.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Watching the coverage is like CRACK!!!!

 

[sparkyness]

Yep....1.45am here and watching CNN. I also have to be up early for work....but no chance of sleep in sight! Bastards...

 

[aramism]

i lean more right than left and like i said. i hate both candidates. i agree with james, i really wanted ron paul.

then again i hate all this shit. i hate subcribing to a set set of rules whether it's conservative, liberal, moderate... too many fucking labels.

i share viewpoints from both sides.

both these candidates suck balls. if it wasn't for palin mccain would not get spanked like he just did. i probably would vote for him too.

NY state was lke 90% obama anyway so just out of principle i voted for ralph nader. obama is an asshole. palin is a cunt. mccain is half an asshole.

its a lose lose situation no matter who would win.

 

[Metaltastic]

Obama did win, right? I mean, it says "270 Electoral Votes" needed to win, and Obama has 324 as of now, so...?

 

[egan.]

Obama did win, right? I mean, it says "270 Electoral Votes" needed to win, and Obama has 324 as of now, so...?

McCain is conceding as I type.