AVID Pro Tools 10 & new hardware!
- Thread starter crillemannen
- Start date
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
I feel like I'm tilting at windmills here. Carry on, I'll just keep using my current setup happily and observe.
Lon
smash that.
I watched the avid video and they praised the clipgain for a minute straight, but not do disgress: yes, my comment was maybe voiced too harsh and seemed unobjective, but i was pretty puzzled when i digged into the feature-lists of protools just to find "the best daw in the world" not keeping up to the thing a guy wrote alone from scratch.
But if the demo does not require an iLok i will give ProTools a fair shot, maybe its got some tricks in its sleeve to justify killing a few €.
C_F_H_13
Protools Guru
Mikaël-ange
Member
- Nov 7, 2008
- 2,368
- 1
- 36
C-Martin
Member
You knew this threat would turn out the way it did and it'll keep going for atleast another 6-7 pages, if not more. I've been following this thread for amusement really, people will always complain. Some have good reasons, some just want to complain.
I am rather surprised however that they finally ditched the TDM systems. It was due but i never really expected it to happen anytime soon. The only thing that sucks for me is i just got my Command 8 a few months ago and now i know it won't be suported in the future but i don't really care, by the time a new version comes out i'll probably have outgrown it and i'll get something else instead.
I'm not saying i don't find the prices ridiculus. I'm just content with my current setup and even before i saw the price tags i wasn't even considering upgrading. It was actually my GF that emailed me at work saying PT 10 came out and i just went eh... I'll check it out sometime this weekend. If an upgrade comes out that doesn't automatically mean you MUST get it. I never even owned PT8, i went from PT MP 7.3.1 to PT 9 because i wanted to ditch my old delta 1010s and go with something a bit better and more expandable. I may get 10 one day, or maybe not, but right now i'm not even worried about it. I have some outboard gear to worry about purchasing first!
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Are you sure? Judging from what he said in the statement, you WOULD have gotten PT10HD if you already had the support plan before PT10 came out. I don't think anyone gets PT10 if he gets the support plan now.
Btw I understand what you're saying about people bitching even though they don't have a reason, but I don't think you're in the position to judge if someone "is allowed" to whine or not. Neither am I.. everyone has to figure out for himself whether he is pissed or not, it doesn't have to be logical for others, I guess
Personally I just want PT to work the way it should work with my setup, which clearly it doesn't. I had hoped to get this software monitoring issue fixed for PT9 but now it's not even fixed in PT10. I also found a thread with 20000 views and several hundred replies when PT9 came out, full of people asking for the montoring off-switch. Avid didn't respond or do anything to fix it of course.
::XeS::
Member
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
I think Support Plan is just like Apple care... It's not a discount but another add
"So here’s the deal: Any customer who currently owns Pro Tools HD 9 is eligible to purchase the Standard Avid Support Plan for $599 until the end of the year. Once you purchase this from your dealer, you will be eligible to receive your Pro Tools HD 10 upgrade as part of the program. You will also have 12 months of maintenance, and any future upgrades within the 12 months will be included."
You own HD 9 -> You purchase the Support Plan for $599 -> You get the upgrade to HD 10 AND the benefits of the support program. Or am I having serious trouble understanding what I read?
Wow. I'm not judging anyone, or holding myself in any position. It's just the lack of reasoning behind the whining that makes it silly. Basically, these are the types of whiners I find rather absurd:
1) People who think some other DAW is superior. Seriously, if you prefer something else, just use it and be happy with it. If someone is willing to put up with Avid's third reich business tactics (that was sarcasm, just in case), how exactly does it affect you in any way? I don't give two shits about what software people prefer, and whenever I'm at another studio tracking, I use what's available. Often it's not PT, and I'm not complaining. I'm not running around Reaper threads telling it's an amateur toy or only fit for someone who wants to customize everything from their DAW to their toenails.
2) People who have been using their rigs for years and can't afford (or don't want to pay for) the upgrade. If the system has been serving you well so far, what's the problem? Sure, the new features are cool and it would be awesome to have the new HDX setup, but there's no acute need for it if you have been working professionally on a HD rig so far. I'm on PT9 Native and can't even fantasize about upgrading right now since I'm financially fucked ATM, but I don't care. I've been mixing happily until now, and a pricey, optional upgrade won't hinder me.
If you don't like the software or hate the company enough to get your panties in a twist over it, just switch. It's not like there aren't a hundred and one alternatives out there nowadays.
It just feels like complaining about Avidesign is a bit of a fad with all the nazi photoshops, poems and so on. For heaven's sake, if you hate it so much, don't fucking use it
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Haha damn it, you're right. That post is pretty much crystal clearYou own HD 9 -> You purchase the Support Plan for $599 -> You get the upgrade to HD 10 AND the benefits of the support program. Or am I having serious trouble understanding what I read?
I was referring to posts in the official forum, but I also read this one on Facebook. Well, good for the PTHD users.Concerning the second part: Sorry man, the word "jugding" probably came across wrong and was not what I meant. I wanted to say I basically agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people will still be unhappy / angry, and naturally everybody has a different perception of what's fair and appropriate so what you said is absurd to you may seem completely logical to others.
Actually just forget about my last posts
I have some health issues atm and I am both pissed off and unfocused because of it, so yeah..
Trevoire520
Member
Wow. I'm not judging anyone, or holding myself in any position. It's just the lack of reasoning behind the whining that makes it silly. Basically, these are the types of whiners I find rather absurd:
1) People who think some other DAW is superior. Seriously, if you prefer something else, just use it and be happy with it. If someone is willing to put up with Avid's third reich business tactics (that was sarcasm, just in case), how exactly does it affect you in any way? I don't give two shits about what software people prefer, and whenever I'm at another studio tracking, I use what's available. Often it's not PT, and I'm not complaining. I'm not running around Reaper threads telling it's an amateur toy or only fit for someone who wants to customize everything from their DAW to their toenails.
2) People who have been using their rigs for years and can't afford (or don't want to pay for) the upgrade. If the system has been serving you well so far, what's the problem? Sure, the new features are cool and it would be awesome to have the new HDX setup, but there's no acute need for it if you have been working professionally on a HD rig so far. I'm on PT9 Native and can't even fantasize about upgrading right now since I'm financially fucked ATM, but I don't care. I've been mixing happily until now, and a pricey, optional upgrade won't hinder me.
If you don't like the software or hate the company enough to get your panties in a twist over it, just switch. It's not like there aren't a hundred and one alternatives out there nowadays.
It just feels like complaining about Avidesign is a bit of a fad with all the nazi photoshops, poems and so on. For heaven's sake, if you hate it so much, don't fucking use it
Totally agree.
"Oh my god my hardware won't be supported in PT11"
Don't upgrade to 11 then. Your system still works and will continue to work for many years. There are lots of pro studios still running PT7! Maybe upgrade to 10 and leave it there?
All I've heard for years is "we want 64 bit, TDM needs to be ditched or replaced it's too old"
And then when Avid decide to get ready for moving to 64 bit and upgrade their processing cards everyone has a total shit fit. The customer base seem to want PT to move forward to improve the power and quality of the system, while simultaneously insisting that all the old technology continues to be integrated until the end of time.
What I can agree with is that it's a very expensive upgrade for some people. But really if you don't think the new features and greater efficiency are worth the asking price then don't upgrade.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Or how about we realize that Avid won't be around 5 years from now and move on to another system. Its obvious that their marketing and products have failed compared to other companies just look at their stocks this year. They think that they can have a proprietary system and charge a premium price for the same open source programs that is not proprietary for a much cheaper price that has the same features if not more AND have better hardware quality.
They have been doomed to fail for many years now, their inabilities to change to the adapting market was the final nail in the coffin.
greyskull
Member
- Mar 22, 2006
- 6,072
- 7
- 38
Whilst you make an excellent point; It's not the cost of the new system per ce that's pissing people off; I think everyone will deal with that eventually; they did when mix transitioned to HD (although they DID offer much better hardware exchanges!!!) It's the fact that to just upgrade the software to the latest version is priced stupidly high, almost 3 times that of any previous upgrades, in an attempt to 'lure' customers into trading up to a new HDX system.
"I'll just trade the cards in and keep my 192's they seem to work pretty well.."
Tough shit; for no apparent reason the perfectly decent interfaces have been shit canned.
"Okay, I'll go for the new system, that'll work fine in my MacPro 3.1 right?"
Wrong, you need a Nahelm or newer MacPro as the firmware (on the HDX cards) is incompatible.
"Fine, I'll just upgrade the software for now, That many samples of delay compensation would be great for some of my bigger mixes"
Tough shit. You Can't have it on Hd Tdm Cards... but everyone else can
Just for the record, I don't even own HD, just Have plain old 9 at home, but i use plenty of studios that do, and I feel really bad for those guy's as they've ploughed so much money into Hd over the years, whilst I've sat waiting to see what would come out, dealing with LE's inadequacies for years and years hoping that what eventually turned out to be PT 9 was coming soon. ( that was a long wait from ver 6.9!!)
This just reinforces my current way of thinking, which is that I need to stopped fucking worrying about software shit. Buy and build hardware and outboard, and just make damn records....
I mean christ... TLA JUST switched from PT Mix 5! and he was doing alright......
I want a console dammit!
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
Haha damn it, you're right. That post is pretty much crystal clear
Concerning the second part: Sorry man, the word "jugding" probably came across wrong and was not what I meant. I wanted to say I basically agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people will still be unhappy / angry, and naturally everybody has a different perception of what's fair and appropriate so what you said is absurd to you may seem completely logical to others.
Actually just forget about my last posts
Don't worry man, it's just heated discussion, and I won't get my panties in a twist over a DAW anyway
Best of luck with the health issues, hope everything gets sorted out!
Ten bucks says they will be around.
Lasse Lammert
HCAF Blitzkrieg
I LOVE Pro Tools, and I LOVE the workflow in that software.
I still think 599 is spitting in the face of HD users though, we don't even benefit from half the features (AAX, increased ADC etc) and we know already that it's a dead end, so the "good" thing about the support plan is that you might get PT11 with it as well (if it comes out within one year), but since PT11 won't work on TDM systems it's no use for current HD users...
so what this support plan really is is a 599 software upgrade for a software and features that should have been bugfixes for 9, cause many of the great new features don't work on HD/TDM anyways.
so we're asked to pay 599 for a software update, that's not even a stepping stone but the end of the line.
Why would PTHD users be happy about that?
personally I think it's cool that PT is coming out with something new that supports 64 bit etc, everyone knew TDM wouldn't be around forever, I'm NOT complaining because they come out with a newer improved system that doesn't support my HD/TDM anymore (cause it's just not possible to support 64bit etc on the currend HD card's architecture)..that's fine.
what's pissing me off BIG TIME is that insulting price for a end-of-line software upgrade.
and no, I won't be jumping ship right now, I love workin in PT and my rig works fine...and it will be working fine for some time.
I'm just not gonna support the wankers at avid anymore by throwing thousands and thousands at them just to end up being kicked in the teeth
I still think 599 is spitting in the face of HD users though, we don't even benefit from half the features (AAX, increased ADC etc) and we know already that it's a dead end, so the "good" thing about the support plan is that you might get PT11 with it as well (if it comes out within one year), but since PT11 won't work on TDM systems it's no use for current HD users...
so what this support plan really is is a 599 software upgrade for a software and features that should have been bugfixes for 9, cause many of the great new features don't work on HD/TDM anyways.
so we're asked to pay 599 for a software update, that's not even a stepping stone but the end of the line.
Why would PTHD users be happy about that?
personally I think it's cool that PT is coming out with something new that supports 64 bit etc, everyone knew TDM wouldn't be around forever, I'm NOT complaining because they come out with a newer improved system that doesn't support my HD/TDM anymore (cause it's just not possible to support 64bit etc on the currend HD card's architecture)..that's fine.
what's pissing me off BIG TIME is that insulting price for a end-of-line software upgrade.
and no, I won't be jumping ship right now, I love workin in PT and my rig works fine...and it will be working fine for some time.
I'm just not gonna support the wankers at avid anymore by throwing thousands and thousands at them just to end up being kicked in the teeth
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
That's definitely understandable, and if I was in your shoes, I'd probably just wait until a complete rig remodel was in order and would make financial sense. Like you said, upgrading to PT10 with your current setup wouldn't benefit you that much, especially considering the price.
I can see why they can't offer the features for the old HD architecture, though. The ADC seems to be a limitation with the old cards, and yeah, AAX doesn't make much sense when you have your plugins in TDM format already, but they didn't really have a choice to not offer the upgrade at all. Definitely a difficult situation, but let's hope there will be sweet exchange deals in the future.
::XeS::
Member
You guys are both right of course... the point is that all these new features could have been implemented in the 9, one year ago. I can't believe that a company like Avid, leader for decades, comes out only today with clip gain etc... It seems that it takes out of the oven new features with the dropper only to suck much money possible from its users.
Protools 9 is still buggy and you know what? They came out with a brand new 10! Fine...but who knows if their policy isn't:
"Ok PT9 is still buggy...we could fix all the bugs with a new free patch for 9....or we can fix all the bugs in a new PT version, adding some new features (that we have in our drawer since 1995) and call it PT10, at the price of 500$/1000$.....mmmmmh......LET'S GO WITH PT10!"
The upgrade is not that bad for native users (I think I'll do the jump from 8 in the next months) but is very ridicolous for PT HD users because they have paid thousands of € and they have to pay a lot more for the upgrade, a lot more for the new cards and a lot more for a new mac. The right solution to me should be charging the same amout of money for every user, maybe 400$...and that's all. It's not right that if you're a pro and you've already paid lot of money, you have to pay a lot more because of the philosophy "you've already spent a shitload of money so you'll be spend a lot more another time".
I'm with you that an upgrade is not necessary if your system works fine...but if you have bugs and you're waiting for a fix patch and instead of that they come out with a new version that doesn't support your system anymore....and you have to pay a shitload of money for these bugfixes...it's not that cool.
Protools 9 is still buggy and you know what? They came out with a brand new 10! Fine...but who knows if their policy isn't:
"Ok PT9 is still buggy...we could fix all the bugs with a new free patch for 9....or we can fix all the bugs in a new PT version, adding some new features (that we have in our drawer since 1995) and call it PT10, at the price of 500$/1000$.....mmmmmh......LET'S GO WITH PT10!"
The upgrade is not that bad for native users (I think I'll do the jump from 8 in the next months) but is very ridicolous for PT HD users because they have paid thousands of € and they have to pay a lot more for the upgrade, a lot more for the new cards and a lot more for a new mac. The right solution to me should be charging the same amout of money for every user, maybe 400$...and that's all. It's not right that if you're a pro and you've already paid lot of money, you have to pay a lot more because of the philosophy "you've already spent a shitload of money so you'll be spend a lot more another time".
I'm with you that an upgrade is not necessary if your system works fine...but if you have bugs and you're waiting for a fix patch and instead of that they come out with a new version that doesn't support your system anymore....and you have to pay a shitload of money for these bugfixes...it's not that cool.
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
Hmm, the bug thing sucks. I've been lucky since I've had zero trouble with PT9 sans the session import bug that was fixed really quickly.
I might have missed this, but is it certain Avid won't be working on version 9 patches anymore?
I might have missed this, but is it certain Avid won't be working on version 9 patches anymore?
::XeS::
Member
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
Clip gain is getting all the comments like it was the only new feature in PT10 (and I think it's Avid's responsibility because they focussed on it a bit too). But PT10 is really not just about that. Try it and see if you like it or not (now that you can try it, and it's a good move from Avid: "Ok, you think this update sucks? Well, for the first time ever, take this demo and see for yourself."). But there's much more to this upgrade than just this. And it's great that they will ditch RTAS as well because it's a very un-efficient plugin format, really far from being optimized (been told this by a plugin developer). Let's just hope that all our favorite plugins will be ported to AAX (or that RTAS compatibility will be kept in the future).
