Back + advice in life

[LeSedna]

Hey guys,

I'm back. I don't wanna spend too much time explaining it, but let's say the last 6 months for me have been life changing. I was about to leave my job for a better one (a few guys here helped me make my resume better and i still thank them for that btw).

Thing is, recently after, and I am lucky I scored the job just before, I basically went burnt out. By a burn out, I mean the real, true, work burn out. To make it simple, it is technically close to a depression, depending on your level, and is due to your daily conditions.

The reason why I'm talking about it here and now, is because I am feeling way better now, say 80 to 90% of my normal state, and now that I feel like I'm swimming and not drowning anymore, I wanna share my experience.

We live in a world that is basically, in our western societies, a pure denial of individuality. You are, like me, part of a system, and you don't exist as an individual unless you decide you are. You are a social number, you are a payslip, you are another one. We do not live anymore in a world where we are part of a village, a family for all our life, a tribe, or what not.

Thing is, I experienced the worst that can happen in terms of work conditions : you work way too much, far from family, in a fear management environment (which has been officially proven to be counter productive in the long term but is still used especially in US and UK/anglo saxon companies, and in a few other big companies. Think wall-mart and you get the picture), where I was not even employed, and when I would fear for my job position whenever I was just starting to imagine i could have done a mistake. The worst is I was actually, and I know it from the mouth of my ex boss, a good employee, but that is not what the company made me feel like.

Now, add up to the mixture :
- no social life
- work too much
- bad sleep schedule (i'm talking wake up at 4am which is the middle of your WOCL -google that- go home at 5pm, do it again 5 times in a row, then next week do the contrary which is start at 2pm and go home at 1am)
- fear of management

And boom, burn out. One day I went for shopping, and I felt like my head was turning and I was about to pass out. It took me 10 days of analysis (I thought I had some kind of lack, like iron/magnesium/vitamins lack) to mentally accept I was burnt out after I talked to my father who experienced it. From this day on, I felt super exhausted. When I mean exhausted, I mean exhausted, physically, and morally. A war movie would make me feel uncomfortable, a horror movie irritated, and the sound of cuttlery would make me tired.

Mentally, I felt like there were no solution. I just felt trapped in a situation, even though I was not. I thought I had no choice, I had to go through it or I would lose my job forever and the new company would not accept me in this state.

Now that I have passed through these months, I have now the experience to say : I was wrong.

I kept on keeping it for myself, stayed strong, just did my job, rested a lot. But the day when I finally, after 3 months like this, left my job, my life was pure emptiness. I can't even describe the feeling, maybe some of you have experienced it out from a relationship, or something like that, but basically, even though rationally that was not true, my life which had been basically been revolving ONLY around my job because I had no other choice and my conditions made me feel like it, suddenly was left empty. For a few days, I even asked my father to come stay with me help me with moving my stuff from my appartment, because I had this strange feeling of loneliness. Since this day, I can totally understand, why/how/what would feel the feeling of wanting to end one's life, or feeling like you don't belong to this world anymore. The thing is, it is not true, but for a second, a day, a month, or a year (I guess), your psyche feels like it, no matter what.

So I had holidays for 2 months then, and in the beginning, I actually felt bad, because I needed something to fill my days. I craved for attention, from friends, family, girls, I have fucked probably like 10 or 15 girls in 2 months through the use of websites and contacts I had, and in a way maybe it was the right thing to do at that time because I did actually need something to compensate.

I am not talking about it to focus on me or say I'm a hero or anything. The thing is, I wish I would have recognized the symptoms before, or read such a thread. Now that I am feeling HAPPY again, and even though I'm still working on details on my life to finally make it more "normal", I just wanted to give some suggestions here because I know, from the experience of lurking around this forum for such a long time, and having a few friends working in the audio industry now, that this job is also characterized by a lot of work hours even though responsibilities are lesser, by loneliness, financial struggle, and so on.

So to make it simple to whoever is reading me now :

If you feel :
- tired
- stressed
- if you have trouble digesting food
- like you dont get pleasure out of meeting friends anymore
- pressured by your boss or client
- alone

HAVE A BREAK

And by having a break, I mean, a real one. And do not care about the consequences. I really mean it. If I relate to my case, I thought my new company would not accept the fact I would have had a break before going to them. You know what ? They didnt care that some pilots went and didnt fly for 3 months before. They are norwegian, they understand more the concept of "I am tired" "I am human" and "I can still be a good pilot after having had a break for 2 poor months". So i overpressured myself. I should have stopped even for 5 months maybe, and would have maybe avoided getting more stressed and tired, and would maybe feel even better now.

Have a real, quality break.

Reconnect with life. By this, I mean : talk to your friends and family. And trust me, you will discover that some of them feel just like you and didn't realize. Now that I am aware of what it is to be professional in the 21st century, I am now able to say one of my friends M. has symptoms of being close to a burn out as well. I talked to him, he opened up about it, and I'm monitoring him a little bit because I am his friend and I am happy for him he just left his job in his restaurant to find another one, quit his appartment and go live with people again instead of living alone.

Think better, as well, about pressure. Your clients or the label is not happy if you tell them you need a month break ? BIG FUCKING DEAL. An album is gonna be released with delay, how terrible ! These people, like all of us, think the world revolve around them. Don't let them think you have to deny your own needs for their own interest. I am not saying you should be unprofessionnal and delay all your work, but being able to realize when you are not at 100% involved in your work IS being professional. Intelligent people should acknowledge that. My previous company denied any kind of "fatigue". When I told them "listen i am fatigued" the guy, because he is told to act like this, for productivity, answered on the phone "hum I see you just had 4 days off. How can you be fatigued, did you party or something ?" with a mischevious feeling in his voice. In a perfect world I should have answered "listen moron, you work in an office, I work in a cockpit that is 20% dry, climbs and descends with pressurisation, I have constant noise in my headset, I have to wake up at 4 5 times in a row and work even more than you, I have 200 lives behind my back 4 times a day, whenever I would do a mistake in my cockpit Big Brother would be watching me because my plane is linked to Operations via satellite and they would know instantly I have put the gear down at 999ft instead of 1000ft so you shut up and put me off schedule for a week, especially because I dont even get a salary but an hourly rate so it's not gonna cost you a penny anyway. Thank you and go to hell.". But of course I didnt, and indeed it wouldn't have been a good idea. But I should have said right away "listen I need rest. send me a letter and a blame, I dont care" because I knew I had another job. And those new guys in norway, they are good people and told us right away in their company, it is acceptable to say you are fatigued, and the only employee that has been fired last year was not fired for a mistake, but for his behaviour towards women, treating them like they cannot be as professional as a man. When I heard that, I felt like that I had been stupid for overpressuring me for 3 months, while in fact I could have taken care of myself earlier.

To come back to what I was saying before my own example : yes there are always gonna be consequences if you tell a client you cannot make the schedule. So what, your health is more important. And again, in the long term, it is gonna work better anyway when you come back rested and happy to do your job again. For 3/4 months, I hated my job, and I'm talking about a kid dream gone true after 20 years of focusing. Now, I am happy about it again, and that is because I changed things in my life.

To go on with lists, here is what you should do if you feel close to a burn out, or in a burn out :

- take QUALITY time
- connect with friends. real ones. you probably have less than 5 friends, identify them and connect to those. they might not be those you thought they would be
- connect with family
- create friends if needed
- eat well. take time, pleasure, eating. Have a glass of wine with someone. talk
- connect with your passions again. or try to, slowly. You didnt play guitar in years ? Open your guitar case, change their strings, pick and easy and enjoyable song, and just have fun.
- listen to easy listening songs. radio pop songs that make silly girls happy. You know what ? This is their purpose, making you happy, and I just realized that I like prog metal because it satisfies my brain, but maybe once in a while this song is the best song in the world just as well [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CGVgAYJyjk&feature=kp[/ame] . I only realized it when I was at a party, half drunk, for a colleague birthday, and 100 people were singing this surprise karaoke all together jumping around. That's what life is about, having fun. And that doesn't change that the Bach's Chaconne for violin will still make me shiver and cry because it is a masterpiece of the human kind. There is good in everything.
- do not care about what other people think. it is okay to be different to them. Stop, like me, trying to be nice just to be nice. if you talk too loud in the train by mistake, don't feel sorry too long, be polite, smile, talk lighter, end of story.
- add something new to your life. I just got into calligraphy. I don't have an awesome writing, but hey, I just thought writing with a real true old english pen with true ink on a parchment is cool and I can have fun during my long cruise time writing to an indonesian friend by snail mail instead of e-mails. It costs 20 bucks or euros to get a kit, and hop, new hobbie. Simple, fun, connected to reality, artistic, expressive, communicative, original. Feels good.
- treat yourself like a king. buy new clothes, feel fabulous. Get a haircut, nice shoes. I just ordered the last macbook pro, because I can, not because I have the money per say, but because I have not spend a single euro for too long and I decided I wanted it and that's fine.
- talk on facebook. I'm not saying you should tell people you just ate dinner. Just, communicate. If they don't like what you are saying, well they can remove you or unsubscribe from seing your posts, that's what settings are for
- make your life new in all ways possible. I'm not saying dump friends or your loved one, but change things. Appartment, location, computer, car, make your life anew
- choose better the people you see. I actually have a fuckbuddy or two that are not the hottest I have ever had, but I actually stopped seing this hottie because she was just dumb and plain stupid, while there is this other girl who is super fun and cool and easy to deal with and she simply and plainly makes me have a great evening every time. Not gf-material for me, but my point is, she makes my life better by making some of my days feel like good days, and that's all that matters. People who don't make your days feel better can be erased from your life, they can deal with it. You have only one life, with a certain number of days, maybe less than what you think.
- disconnect some of your electronic devices. Put your phone on silent mode (I mean, silent, with not even the vibration) at nights or off duty. You will see this unimportant SMS later. Make the ringtone less aggressive. You can still set up today's smartphone to unlock the ringtone if someone calls you twice in a row which means the call is important, so use this feature. Remove all options like "update my mails every 1mn" or "push my facebook notifications to my iphone with a loud sound". Remove this fucking facebook from your iphone or osX setting, you don't need to receive a stimulus every single minute of your life.
- Watch "the modern times" by charlie chaplin. Just do it and thank me later.
- stop coffees for nothing, redbull, excitants. Try tea with a spoon of honey, or something without caffeine if late at night. It honestly feels good. It is not metal, but who cares. It is awesome especially while talking to your best friend who just got her first baby.
- call someone you like/love/cherish once a day, even for 5mn. Even to talk about something stupid, do not care, just do it.
- as long as you have the minimum to live, money is NOT IMPORTANT. I will be honest, in june I made the equivalent to 10k dollars net in a month. But at what cost ? I worked 2.5 times more than the average. Yes you read it. In the end I was destroyed, and the bank account line didnt even feel good to me because this was just a number, and had nothing to do with happiness. I would have if it meant "nice holidays with my girlfriend". "a doggy friend at home". "A night with Charlotte LeBon in a parisian 5star hotel" (google her ). But truth is, I was happied when I was surrounded with friends and got 800e a month. Also in my case, it meant nothing since I was paid to the hour and limited yearly anyway, so the salary means shit as it is flattened yearly anyway. Also, this money is to pay back a big loan. So, money is secondary after health, happiness, and stability. Then, money is extra
- consider talking to a professionnal. we go to the doctor when we get the flu. But we don't consider talking to a psy before it is almost too late. I have seen one just to see, I was curious, and my god how I had a preconceived idea of psys. In fact, it is just talking to someone who can understand you. Nothing else. This is not for crazy people, this does not mean you are insane, it just means "i would like an external view on my situation". And no, your best friend will not be the best psy, they are complimentary. Trust me, if you can afford a 2000 dollar guitar (and I'm being nice with how much money we spend on gear) you can totally afford 2 sessions of a psy for about 40/50 each and maybe discover a lot about yourself. Even if you don't feel "that" bad, try the experience. Could be useless, could make you feel good or think "gosh, i wish i did that earlier" like me. I just went 4 times, the first time I was thinking "this woman is ridiculous trying to make sense ouf of my dream involving a T-Rex chasing me". An hour later, I realized I had issues with my mother's ex boyfriend who made me feel uncomfortable at home for 10 years. It cost me about what I spend in a restaurant. Think about it, and there are maaaaany people who go anyway and would never tell you. You are not crazy, you are just trying to get an objective view on your situation from someone who is trained on it and who hopefully will bring you something. Just know this not like a pill, they cannot change you, only make you realize things and then it's your job to deal with it
- it is okay to take some medicine for a while, they help, but keep in mind they never solve the problem. I didnt take any but I could have. Also, dont feel bad if you do. Some drugs today are well done and if controlled have little adverse effects and are quite light, there is something for every case, from the little sadness to the absolute demence.
- dont drink alcohol to forget, never was my case but i realized how easy it can be to go down that road
- ultimately, think about changing your career. When I read biographies, sometimes I am just amazed at how your life can change, and how at the end of one's life, you can probably be proud of your path anyway. Read "Casanova" for example. It is incredible to see how someone changed his life so many times. What it means, is if you started as an IT technician, it doesn't mean you cannot be a dancer the next year if that's what makes you feel happy and motivates you. I decided if one day I am not happy anymore with being a pilot, and if I saved enough money, I could totally go the photography route, or whatever. I could keep a licence current in case I miss it after a few years, I have heard stories of people changing drastically their life. Like this guy who was working in a big office and decided all his life he wanted to buy wood furnitures. Now all he does is build wooden closets or tables and he loves it !

You will soon realize your life feels better after all those litte or not-little changes !

I am not finished with the process myself BUT I am feeling happy right now, I have changed my environment, I am now employed somewhere I feel I can be part of the team and family. I feel like i have better connections with my friends. I enjoy food, I listen to music, I dance in my shower, I smile to people in the street, I share my interests on facebook, I am buying myself a new computer, I am listening to this tune daily : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svG6vZo6eOU . I was closed to being disgusted of the look of my plane but my new one just makes me proud and I think this picture is badass I never realized "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" could be so true, and trust me, it is. The ultimate thing is to take action and be active instead of only reacting to life.

If this can help even ONE person here realize he/she needs to do something to better his/her life, I would be happy too ! He/she can even drop me a line, I don't have a lot of time but I could help a bit !

That is all, and I thought I would be shorter, but tl;dr : I am happy now and I wanna post here again once in a while ! And I missed this place, that I consider the best place on the interwebz.

Also, those of you who like nice pictures and planes, if you want I have setup a dropbox folder where I will be uploading pics (I recently ordered a phone plan that works all around europe on 3G and in my planes there is wifi on board) which can be super cool.

Also anyone flying to the north in say "a norwegian low cost company", just send me a message, I will be flying a lot in the north for summer and I might be able to bring you to the cockpit if I am operating your flight and have a chat ! They are super open to that, very friendly, you would have a free coffee in the most VIP seat in the plane and maybe I would have you push buttons for me !

 

[NecroDM]

Wow, that's some bad experiences you got there, but it's understandable overworking and stress will get to you and it'll always have negative consequences specially for your health. I'm glad you're better now and that you didn't have an heart attack or something worse.

One should always try to have a good work-life balance otherwise it's unhealthy, besides money isn't everything, what good is working a lot if you won't have any time left for playing guitar or mixing? For me, none

Work to live, don't live to work

Welcome back mate

 

[Nimvi]

First of all: great to have you back!
I don't know if you realize it but I'm always fond of your participation in threads. I think it is because your views and expressions on things are very similar to my own thoughts.
That is not to say that I just like people when they agree with me, because that would be a bit too easy and circlejerky; being challenged in your worldviews can be an eye opening experience! But I feel like the things you say are inherently easy for me to follow... sort of like we are running on the same OS. And because of the autism issue (I think we've talked about this once?), that just makes things a lot less stressful for me. Usually I have to decode what people say and do to understand their intention, which is fine and not their problem, but it costs me a lot of energy over time. So whenever I don't have to do that, that feels like a relief.
Then again, one could ask the question: why do I have an easy time relating to you? Maybe it's just coincidence, but it might be interesting to think about.

About your story that starts in horror and ends in (hopefully) a permanent improvement of life quality: once again I can say I understand what you mean, from a different angle. The problems and realizations you ran into during your crash (pun only slightly intended) are things I have been struggling with since my early school days and they are still a recurring theme on an almost daily basis.

There seems to be this standard of 'how you are supposed to live your life'. I know it's not 100% black and white, but it comes close this: There is a plan set out for you from the day you are born that you need to follow. Go to this school at this age, then go to that school at that age, get good grades in x amount of classes or you fail, and then either specialize in more follow up schools, or go to a 9 to 5 job. Not following this plan makes you a failure in the eyes of... well, pretty much everyone.

Don't get me wrong. It's not this plan that bothers me. For many people it really WORKS, so that's cool.
It's the utter lack of alternatives that is a problem. If you are one of the people that aren't wired correctly for it, you can either painfully submit or you are on your own. It's like there is this one log drifting in the ocean and everyone clamps onto it. Can't hold onto the log? Well, you better learn how to swim really fast, or you will drown. As far as I have experienced it, there is no other log.

I'm one of those people that could not finish that plan if my life depended on it. It has nothing to do with intelligence or laziness either. I've gotten compliments all my life on 'how I seem to know everything' and radiate confidence, and how I am able to learn anything within a very short time frame, as long as I want to. In those cases, I'm also very thorough and disciplined.

But all of this has been of absolutely no use when it comes to protocol. Because the price I pay for these 'talents' is that I am only able to apply them to a handful of very specific things, and I am completely handicapped in pretty much all other aspects. I am also not able to do them constantly over longer time frames, because -like you said- I NEED to take breaks between phases.
When I was still in school, this always translated to the same thing: perfect grades for 3/4 of the courses, abysmal grades in the others, which often caused me to not finish the year, even though those courses were absolutely trivial to my skills and plans.
It also resulted in always being best in class for 3 months, then being too broken to do anything for 2, and eventually dropping out after 2 or 3 years because the constant turmoil made me physically and mentally ill.

So after I finally gave up on this route -because it was just NOT possible nor healthy for me- I had to find a way on my own. In these years I was plagued by feelings of guilt and inadequacy, next to having trouble to get enough income.
I started therapy too, because I was afraid of my thoughts and clearly needed help. And like you said, therapy can be great and it's hard to believe that in the 21st century, there are still so many misconceptions around it. Around mental problems in general, I should add. People still act like the mind is something that works by magic and it can all be altered by thinking happy thoughts and being motivated... well, happy thoughts and motivation are a product of the mind factory, and if that factory is broken, good luck producing something useful! If your engine is fucked, your car won't start.

But over the years, and with help of both medical professionals and my wife and family/good friends, I have rolled into a lifestyle where I can freelance and do work that makes me happy at a pace that feels correct to me. Audio engineering is one of the biggest parts of that, but I also do some other stuff, like music lessons.
I don't make a lot of money, but together with my wife, I make enough to live. And we still have some money left over to treat ourselves to luxury every now and then. Again, like you concluded: we just accepted that our standard should be a bit lower and we don't have to eat something expensive every day... and all is turning out fine. We are happier than we have ever been.

Pretty much the only thing that makes us unhappy is that our way of life is so often 'looked down upon'. We know it's bullshit to concern ourselves with things like that, but being an outsider sometimes just hurts. Humans are a community animal and we are definitely the odd ones out. I think that's the one thing I really need to accept to be truly happy. Like you said: it's okay to be different. As long as everyone does their part as much as they can in society, I think there should be no problems.

I hope my perspective added something of value to your own experiences. I truly feel your pain and I hope you will find stability and peace while still living a worthy life. Also know that it was helpful to me to read your story. It made me feel less alone in my situation.

Oh, and I was thinking... maybe we can soon build a castle out of our walls of text?

 

[Melb_shredder]

Glad to see you're back dude. I didn't read EVERYTHING, but I don't need to. After seeing the first few paragraphs, I already knew we'd both shared a very similar experience.
I'm not going to write walls of texts, but I will say. YES, everything you said is correct. And I too have been burned out before in the same way, and it lead to me being quite depressing, pushing friends away and other such bad things.

It was about that time when I strayed from the path that was expected of me/ that I was walking, and instead I took chances in life to do things MY way and to make myself known. To not be a number.. another unappreciated interchangeable cog in the western world's mechanism. I've been EXTREMELY happy and prosperous since then and wouldn't change it for the world.

Again, glad you're back, glad you're well

 

[AD Chaos]

 

[Clockwork]

Glad to see you back man and glad that you are in a better space and figuring things out!

 

[Plendakor]

Dude, your post touched me (not in my pants). It made a lot of sense. However, the luxury of taking a break from a job is not given to everybody. I just bought a brand new house and start to pay my student loan. I'm fucked!

Can I share too on being tired (don't laught, I'm probably just weak);
I slept 9 hours last night and still feels like my eyes want to pop out.

I work ± 40 hours every week-end (night shifts) and go to school during the whole week. After my 12 hours shift, monday morning at 6 am, I eat and go to school till noon. Then don't sleep until the evening. Then, thursday, after waking up at 6:45 Am, I have to stay up for almost 24 hours so that I can sleep 8 hours friday morning before my 12 hours shift friday at 6 PM.

I kind of have to stay alert at my job because I'm providing IT support for a big aluminum company and receive calls from a few places in the world. It's not a big deal but I still have to remember many associations of things and constantly switch french/english on the phone. Then in school I'm learning formal English. It's not "hard" but very technical and I'm always exhausted when I get there after my shift. After that, I study maths (to get my Electrical engineering tech degree) and also have gym wenesday and that's physical (but I like it).

Add to that financial worries, pressure to get my album out to hopefully make a few bucks (but how can it be out if I can't pay for some services like mastering/printing?), constantly having fights with my gf because my mood is shit and I have to cope with her schedule and keep our child when she works noon to 9pm (for instance, monday after English, I can sleep 3-4 hours but at 4pm she brings the baby from the (c'est quoi une gardiènne, keeper?) on her supper hour so I wake up and take care of the baby).

It's probably not much but the constant switching is bad, the mental is kind of scattered, I don't have much time to contant my loved ones.. I don't even see my gf and daughter much. During the weekend, I see them when I get back from work and they just wake up as I go to bed. I compensate by telling myself that in less than a year I'll be able to get paid 3 times more and in my real professional feild. I can't even afford a real pro guitar and never had one. What a stupid recording artist I am.

Feels good to let it out a bit.. I have a meltdown the other day and complained to a friend. She told me a psy could be an idea and that you don't need to be mental (she sees one).
I could add some stuff to my mental instability, like past issues with my familly and whatnot. My dad went through a big depression after a work accident. I love them and live 500km away from them. I have a daughter and my mom sees her only 3 fucking times a year (because we all have jobs.. right..)

Thank for your thread.
I'm glad you're well man

 

[indecizo]

This thread changed my life.

 

[LeSedna]

@NecroDM : yeah, you are right, even though my heart is good, it totally has had effect on me. For example, at some point, my heart was at 90bpm when "relaxed". Now it is back to 80bpm which is still in the high part of the normal speeds, but yeah. Live a life like that for 10 years and you are good to go for a heart attack ! After 20yo, having an unhealthy life is unsustainable if you have a complicated or stressful environment.

@Nimvi : Thank you so much for your words. It is nice to know you feel in any way you think like me. I don't think I have any autism issue, but I see where you are going, I am inherently more of the introvert type, and it's fine. Even last week I felt better when a specialist of human factors gave us a course, and it is incredible how he was talking PRECISELY about what I had been living some months ago. He also mentioned the aero industry tried for decades to determine what is the best profile to be a good pilot. And he said, there is absolutely no correlation with being extrovert, introvert, active, or passive. Anyone can be proficient at anything, there is no absolute rule. It is funny because after reading that, I realized watching the Sochi olympics how the best performers in the world can be different. Some are super extrovert and would yell and smile to the camera. Others would be in their bubble and never look up. But both could be gold medalists. The key is first to accept who/what you are, then build up on it. I know what you mean about decoding people, I might share this trait with you, although I am also able to feel absolutely and completely relieved with some people I feel connected to, like there is some magic alchemy that makes me just feel good around them, and feeling not judged. This is the kind of people which helped me feel better in this environment which by definition made me feel judged all the time (being monitored for performance, and not for safety records, which is also by definition contrary to what my job is supposed to be about).

I see what you mean with the "plan". In my case, this is different though. I have always been planning to succeed, and always did. In fact, I don't know failure yet. Or at least, this felt maybe like my first failure. I have always been the one who succeeds and is good at what he loves, so when I felt like I was losing it, I sort of got afraid. So my problem was not not being able to fit in, but not being able to be "normal". Also, when you are used to succeed, your friends are too, and you feel like missing recognition when you see no one cares anymore for the huge step you just did. I know, it looks like 1st-world-problem, but it is also a reason why I went into a burn out. A friend of mine told me this was one of the ingredient : being good or at least trying your best, while your employer, who is always important in your eyes when you are involved in your job, doesn't care and only sees the bad things. In my company, the only communication you would get from above is negative. There were therefore a shift between my expectations, and what I got in return. In my new one, when I write a mail to someone, the response ends with a smiley and a "hope your training goes well ! see you soon !". In my previous company, it sounded more like "you are wasting my time".

The thing in your case, I would say, is that even though the "plan" looks important to you, you have to learn how to not compare yourself so much. That is my initial problem maybe, I cared too much about others. This is related to shyness or at least the non-expression of character, and in a way lack of confidence. Be confident about yourself, your difference, and your "i don't care if i'm not like you" and you will remove a heavy weight from your shoulders.

I relate to your phases too. I am a passionate mind, therefore I am good at something and always obsessed by one subject, until I get to a new one. I decided this is fine, and it is probably one of the reasons why I fit well in my job technically, because when I DO work and open my 1200 pages books, it does pay off and even two days ago when I answered to the question "Hey by the way mat, good knowledge, but do you know up until which point you can technically keep the autopilot on ?" and I answered right away "158ft" and he looked at me like I'm an ET, because thats the kind of things no one remembers. So, make this characteristics of yours a good weapon. If you are a passionate like me, it means you can use this work power in the good direction sometimes. In my case, previously, I felt like I couldn't open a book anymore for ever. 2 months later, in an environment that motivates me, I worked twice as hard as the average, and it paid off up to a point when I even taught my instructor some new procedures he was not aware of ! I don't think I was the same as you, as I was not extreme like you (never variated from perfect grades to abysmal grades, at least on this side I was always stable).

I do agree with you, it is unbelievable that today, you can only be reimbursed to talk to a specialist if he is a psychiatre whose job is to prescribe pills (not that it is bad, but it is not the only way to go). Talking to someone whose job is basically "doctor of your mental health" should be trivial.

I don't make a lot of money, but together with my wife, I make enough to live. And we still have some money left over to treat ourselves to luxury every now and then. Again, like you concluded: we just accepted that our standard should be a bit lower and we don't have to eat something expensive every day... and all is turning out fine. We are happier than we have ever been.
That is exactly what I was talking about. I was expecting your post to end up sad, like "i don't know what to do now", but I'm glad to read your already found your way ! You have a wife, and you used the word "we are happy". That is a major achievement in life.

@Melb : Not saying "nice to read" in a way it is nice you had problems too, but you are just demonstrating my point when I say it is always good to talk about this problem, because you always discover there are tons of people who had trouble in their life too ! I know someone who studies psychology and said "everyone is a case"

@Ad_Chaos : pretty much sums up my whole point !

@Clockwork : thanks

@Plendakor : too bad I didn't touched your pants . I know it is not easy to take a break, and I didn't feel like I had this luxury. However, I was wrong, and maybe most people are too when they think they can't take a break. Doing nothing won't help anyway. For example, take perspectives : you just said "I bought a house". Buying something means investing money, not losing it. Technically, you're good, if you see where I am going to. My father, who was the one giving me advices when I felt bad some months ago, was talking about how hard it is now in france, with taxation, and he was talking about all the calculations he was doing for his retirement, because he had to build it up himself after his divorce and the fact he has only half a military pension. Then I told him "ok you are having hard time paying your loans every month. But why? because you are investing 3 fucking thousands euros all together every month. And what is the result ? you are gonna have something around 2/3000e a month, net, with your spouse, for retirement. You are FUCKING FINE and you are just creating yourself the feeling of a problem." My point is, sometimes, we lose perspective. I am not talking about "think about those africans who can't even eat enough to survive", just simple perspective. My father said "well... yeah you are right... funny how I couldnt see that"

About your personal case, I would say yes you should totally think about it a little too, because you also are having a complicated life. Try to see the positive things, and to establish priorities. Make life easier. for example, do not worry about finances, as hard as it is. Everyone does, but it is normal to have loans. Then, don't pressure yourself for your album. It is important for you, but hey, take your time, don't put it on your "todo list". I now have 2 "to do lists" on my phone, the first is called "todo" because that's what i HAVE to do. The other is called "todo NO STRESS" and there i put the things i can do whenever i have time, like "setting up my new ipad", "calculating my logbook hours on the paper version".

Don't say "what a fucking recording artist I am". Like you say, you will be better soon. You have a wife, a kid, make the best out of them, try to see the positive in it, that's how it works.

Again, a psy can help. Then again, he/she could not, you could also not feel him/her and need to see another one until one feels cool to you. It's always worth a try if you feel like a "meltdown". Also, I see no reason why not see one for something as silly as "I am always angry at my parents" and not just "I am in a deep depression". It is incredible how people perceive it as something for mental people, while in fact it is absolutely and totally casual. I was so stressed for my first session, and for my 4th and last one I was totally relaxed and having kind of fun following the path of the thinking my psy had. Again, no need to be mental. I was shocked when I discovered in my little city there are like 10 different ones, and they probably see 15 people a day since they host you for 30mn. It is actually cool to talk to a psy. Mine asked me to bring notes about dreams I had, and she always managed to relate them to my real life. Would it be because the dream is actually linked to that, or not, no one cares, cause the end result was we were talking about things about my old daily life, and sometimes it was even funny and relaxed ! And made me feel normal again. So why not ? I disovered 50% of my close friends went to a psy at least once... So yeah

@indecizo : I'm glad to read that, if that is true ! Any particular reason ?

Thanks for the kind words finally

 

[indecizo]

That was my bad attempt at trolling. In a serious note, I can kinda relate with how you felt, except I don't do that much of work or study. I earn a lot the hour but I work just some hours on weekends, and I study but my career in my college is not that hard. I always study last hour before the exam and do all my homework but it's easy and everything doesn't take me much time to do. The point is that I don't do that much in a day but I still feel down, lack of energy and motivation. I can procrastinate for hours by looking at some gifs site sitting on the computer or replay some old videogame instead of doing something productive. I don't even eat junk food, try to eat as healthy as possible and I recently started going to the gym and go out jogging almost daily but when I come home I'm so tired I immediately fell to the bed and sleep all day long. It feels like I worked full time but that's not the case. Instead of taking a break, I actually want to do something awesome, at least that's what I say when I'm my most energetic moment of the day, but that feeling goes away quickly. It's a never ending cycle. I've seen a psychologist for when I was super depressed but she told me things I already knew about myself and didn't help me at all. I feel better these days but still lack of energy.

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Great post man. Sorry to hear about your hard times.

I agree with you 100% that sometimes you just need a break. I took every bit of my savings after highschool and pissed off to Europe in 2008 for a month and a half, saw many different countries and got to to to Wacken. I came back slightly in debt rather than in a pretty good financial position for being fresh out of highschool like I was before, but that month and a half enabled me to not lose my god damn mind these past 6 years.

Now I'm at that point again where I could just really use a break even if it isn't for so long like last time, but it just really isn't feasible at the moment. I feel your pain man, but I'm sure not as bad. I'm 25 and I feel absolutely burned out, maybe not physically but just mentally and emotionally in the sense that I don't really get much enjoyment out of anything anymore.

 

[Plendakor]

Thanks for your time, answering and all. I always keep stuff to myself. I told my gf I had something broken inside the other day and that it dated from long before her. Feels good to talk sometimes ! I took time with my familly tonight and talked to my mom on the phone and was actually thinking about your say instead of rushing to hangup so I could go and assemble a furniture in the music room. I owe you one Small things like a post can make a significant impact. Sometime the small talks remind in the mind much longer than other thoughts.

 

[Nimvi]

Fantastic thread, and I highly appreciate how much time you put into answering everyone!
For your answer to me personally, I can say: yea, you got it and you absolutely hit the nail on the head. What i find interesting is that most of the things you said, I already knew. Sadly, knowing and actually implementing something are really 2 things.
BUT they also say knowing is half the battle.

In the past few years, my main life goal has been 'coming to terms with my strengths and weaknesses'. The first one I'm pretty happy about. I'm passionate about the things I do and get good feedback from the people I work with, and the bills are paid so all is cool. But every now and then a situation arises that confronts me with what I cannot do, and I retreat into that dark recess of my mind again. I think that once I come to terms with that, my life quality will improve drastically.

And it's true: I'm VERY lucky with my wife. We have been together for 10 years now and married for 1.5. We fit so well to each other, it's almost unbelievable. I think that amounts to a large part of my happiness. When you are together like that, all the struggles in life become that more bearable.

 

[Mago]

Glad you're doing well now man!
I listened to the Dio Tribute lately and been wondering what you've been up to, but figured you'd be busy with your job and all.

I've experienced quite a few friends hit a burnout over the past year, some noticed it early enough, and some hit it full on.
I think it's a combination of a certain stage in your life you go through and also a lot of employers just seeing you as a piece of meat to do labor.
Also the financial ass raping going on for a few years is noticeable, more work for less money and so on.
Luckily we have a social system that sees that kind of thing as a serious problem, and not laziness.
It's funny how people who go out of their way to deliver good work get exploited even more, and then getting shit thrown at for burning out. Mostly by people who work like shit

 

[jipchen]

Glad you're feeling better.

 

[ze kink]

Man, what a great post! I have to say, I completely agree with everything you said. I went through a burnout when I was about 21 or so, for reasons that might not seem "big", but they were really just the last straw that made me realize I was not living my life the way I wanted. I didn't quite even know what I wanted back then, I guess. I made some changes and still about five years later, they have a huge impact in my life.

Also glad to hear you're better and to see you posting again. I've always liked your posts for some reason, maybe because we seem to share a lot of views on life?

 

[LeSedna]

@indecizo : I think there is something that you lack, maybe you don't even realize it. Maybe what you are doing is not motivating you. I don't think what you are describing is a burn out, maybe you just need something that stimulates you, something new, a big change.

@Chris : just wanted to react a bit more. It's funny, I would have not guessed you went through something similar because I am still following your feed on FB since the 1st day (I appreciate your work, and band) and all I ever saw was happiness and fun things ! So in a way you are a little inspiration for me

@Farbeyonmetal : Yeah I don't think in my case such a break could work but after all, that is possible. When I think of it, I have NEVER been taken to take a real break as in vacation far away to the sun or something cool with friends since 6 years ago. In my job I had NO holidays for 18 months in a row, then they gave me my month off less than a month before and it was february so I couldn't do anything that cool out of it (actually you can, if you just go crazy and take a bag pack and do something without a plan, but I was just too tired to think of it back then. Now I could do it). What you say is what I had a few months ago (to the extreme though) : lack of joy, nothing looked like fun to me anymore.

@Plendakor : I am really glad if my intervention here even had a little significance to you and made you maybe talk to your wife or something. This is just the only reason why I posted here, I could have kept it for myself and just gone on with my own life but I felt like maybe I could help someone in any way, so I wanted to share the experience !

@Nimvi : yes, you are right, the first step, which is the most important, is realization of your problem. I'm talking real acceptation of it, like "ok now I have a problem". This happened to me after I had my dad on the phone. I understood my problem was not physical but linked to my conditions and my life. I then went to my room and cried like I have never done, for just 3 or 4mn, then stopped. It's like, I opened the flow and everything went out, like a barrier broke and I just stopped lying to me. From this day on, the first weeks and months were hard because I had to actually face the problem, and with it went the mental thing of "shit I am actually bad now" and stress went up, while before I just thought "ok maybe I just need a cure of vitamins and some rest" and didn't give it too much of a thought. From this day on, it was had, BUT at least I went upwards. I had a difficult time the day when I started my holidays, also because they were (almost) symbolizing me leaving the company cause I was just planning on coming back for a few days to fly a bit before my new training. But except these few days when I felt like I was empty and needed to build myself a better daily life again, it all went in the good direction. The best is it doesn't take that much all in all : friends, communication, family, a break, fun, anything cool. It's nothing you need a degree of engineering to do, and is easily doable by most of us. And yeah value your wife. I only realized the last few years how much being with someone changes your life. I feel now that I am more ready for a relationship that I have ever been for this reason, it took me a long time because of these demanding studies and the fact my life is not even stable yet but at least in a way it's halfway there.

@Mago : cool man, I have listened to the tribute too a few times, i'm still amazed at how it ended up and how many good musicianship there were on this album ! Yes you are right, to me, it looks like anyone can be hit by a burn out, usually it is around my age, at least the first time, 24 to 27 years old. I actually have 3 friends right now who feel a bit the same (they work in the restauration) so they have hit this well where you have worked from the basis of the hierarchy pyramid up to the point you are manager in a restaurant and are now confronted to a bit more responsibility and dealing with your bosses directly. Most of them, like me, experience kind of a stop where they feel like they just can't handle it anymore and need to quit their job (no surprise : mac donald's and similar). And yeah the social system sees it at a serious problem, but in my position this was more vicious as in theory you can only fly when you feel 100% like flying. The problem is, in practical term, when you cannot call "unfit to fly", you have to call "sick". But when you cannot even call "sick" too easily, then you have this problem where you are deciding every time "should I go ? damn...". And let me know the percentage of pilots who declare anonymously 'I have been flying when I shouldn't have' is way over 50. And you can totally correlate who says "yes" to the poll, with which company they flew for. It is nothing official, but everyone knows it in the industry, and I am happy I am now in a company that knows it and is trying to make you feel better. So yeah, society as a whole considers it like something you can easily declare (you can very easily declare yourself in a depression in france even when you not technically in one, as an example) but my job has characteristics. Luckily for me the time I really felt unfit to fly was when I was in holidays, which is probably and actually because I mentally knew I could release pressure, and that's usually when you release pressure that you feel tired and/or sick. My holidays felt duper good and I am feeling so much better now and once I was in my new environment and was feeling like I was totally mastering my training again, could work a lot, and perform to a higher standard than the company's average, I felt so much better and relaxed ! It's crazy how the environment can affect you.

And no there is no surprise : people who do burn outs quite always have a good job which usually means responsibilities, where expectations are high, but social rewards are low. My job is very high in the list (top 3 every year) with traders, firemen (for different reasons, they usually don't do burnouts, but are still stressed) and stuff like that. It is also because to get there, usually you are the kind of person who have a certain care for your own performance as well, and work a lot or do your best all the time, especially because you are new and dont have the experience. Now I understand way more why older pilots are very relaxed and take their time. I have experienced being over the top doesn't work (I was too proactive during a flight, while now I am totally relaxed and just do the bare minimum, adapting myself to the situation and being proactive only when conditions need me to be).

@ze kink : everyone has his:her own level of acceptable stress, like the psy I have seen in the beginning told me, after i told her the story of my life (personal family life, even though not catastrophic, not totally normal) and conditions, told me she was even surprised I made it so far in such conditions.
Thank you for the kind words. I didn't feel my posts had value to some of you, so it's a nice surprise ! Maybe you are right, I personally like posts from people who can express something in a diplomatic yet to-the-point manner. No surprise then

 

[TonyS.]

At the moment I am not able to write a super long text, but just want to say thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

 

[sprack]

I can definitely empathize with some of what you've been going through. I've burnt out 2 times so far and it's always meant a period of introspection and then rebuilding. 30th bday was the hardest. I can also relate to working for a scandinavian company where "personal" health is important and comparing it to the US style. It's a nice change. Stick with your plan, stay positive and have a life. Like AD Chaos said, it's only a job.

If you're ever in Luleå, look me up. I'd be happy to buy you some drinks.

 

[LeSedna]

are you kidding ? I think I am actually flying to Lulea ! I have to check if i am gonna have a night stay there or if it is just a turnaround ! let me check