I was wondering what you all think the best recording school is in the U.S. Ive heard that S.A.E. was pretty good. Ive also heard some good and bad things about Full Sail.
Best Recording School In US
- Thread starter PostMortem1666
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AdamWathan
Member
Your bedroom, some gear, a few books and a lot of time to experiment!
We had a cool thread about this before, check it out...
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...y-you-guys-went-school-audio-engineering.html
Seriously the only reason I want to go to school for audio engineering is to use it as an excuse to spend 2 years having a fucking blast and being immersed in recording.
But when you really look at it, I could take all the money that I would have to spend to go to school for audio engineering and just take 2 years off of work and live off of that money just like I would be at school, except I won't have any school fees and I'd be able to spend more money on gear and more time focusing on what parts of engineering are most interesting to ME instead of being forced to do everything the way they are teaching you at school...
To be fair though I have a friend who's in the Music Industry Arts program at a relatively local college and any time I help her out with her projects I have a fucking blast, they make you do some fun shit that you wouldn't do on your own time... I've helped compose soundtracks for car chase scenes, played guitar for and helped engineer the recording a TV commercial jingle, etc. Good fucking times!
We had a cool thread about this before, check it out...
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...y-you-guys-went-school-audio-engineering.html
Seriously the only reason I want to go to school for audio engineering is to use it as an excuse to spend 2 years having a fucking blast and being immersed in recording.
But when you really look at it, I could take all the money that I would have to spend to go to school for audio engineering and just take 2 years off of work and live off of that money just like I would be at school, except I won't have any school fees and I'd be able to spend more money on gear and more time focusing on what parts of engineering are most interesting to ME instead of being forced to do everything the way they are teaching you at school...
To be fair though I have a friend who's in the Music Industry Arts program at a relatively local college and any time I help her out with her projects I have a fucking blast, they make you do some fun shit that you wouldn't do on your own time... I've helped compose soundtracks for car chase scenes, played guitar for and helped engineer the recording a TV commercial jingle, etc. Good fucking times!
Chryst Krispies
Vanilla Gorilla
I recently (like two days ago) transferred out of the Art Institutes for Recording to go into a new field. It just wasn't happenin, although if it IS happenin for you I'd reccommend that. Bottom line though is if you ARE going to go to school for it, make SURE sure sure sure shure shure 57shure That you are serious about it and are willing to go the distance. Balboa style.
I have heard great things about CRAS in Arizona. But I don't know what qualifies as the "best." Everyone will have a different opinion.
garry666
Member
- Oct 17, 2007
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im gona have to agree with forbiden. Right now im on an audio engineering course and for the first six months it was great just cuz it was all new to me, but now everything is going by so slowly and is prety shit. I would recomend taking a short course just to get the basics the rest you can learn from trial and error and from people on this forum.
I vote for no school at all. Any schooling for audio engineering is a waste of time.
There have already been quite a few threads about this subject, and one of them is a pretty big thread that has tons of opinions and arguments. The general consensus is: recording school is a waste.
~006
There have already been quite a few threads about this subject, and one of them is a pretty big thread that has tons of opinions and arguments. The general consensus is: recording school is a waste.
~006
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
Unless its university level, I say +1 for this. We have this three level schoolsystem in Finland which pretty much is not 100% compatible with the US schoolsystem, so I'll explain it to you shortly:006 said:
1st level (comprehensive school) is equivalent to elementary school + jr. high, which is mandatory for everyone and ends at 9th grade or optional 10th grade
2nd level (gymnasium/trade school/vocational school) is equivalent to high school and/or college and is 3-4 years long
3rd level (polytechnics/university) is equivalent to college and/or university which is 4-8 years long depending on your field, I think proper translation for ammattikorkeakoulu is "University of Applied Sciences".
Because you can go really weird routes, like I went straight from jr. high to college and thus I am I am a college graduate from Finnish Business College, which really is a 2nd level vocational/trade school, but above that is still university/polytechnics level. But I know that some people go the really long way from peruskoulu to lukio to ammattikoulu to yliopisto and go to the military service somewhere in between and propably raise a family and go to work as well, which means it can take over 20 years them to graduate from all the schools, when they are like 35 or something.
I have a friend at 2nd level audiovisual school and only thing that I haven't learned from not being at the school is how to use Pro Tools or how to make 5.1 sounds for DVDs, but those are pretty much the only things. I have learned everything else from one course + thru trial and error from live gigs in the past 3-4 years and being a recording engineer in a demostudio for six months.
ahjteam said:
I checked this from wikipedia, the equivalent would be something like associates degree
I understand that countries other than the US have better educational opportunities...however, the OP is in the US. I have heard of people going to Full Sail (one of the most recognizable recording schools) and graduating, with that large debt, and getting absolutely nowhere with that degree. Not because they are lazy. Not because they aren't in the right places...but because that degree means absolutely nothing. It means they paid way too much for something that they really SHOULD be teaching themselves. If you have spent more than $0 on learning anything about recording, you have spent too much.
Anybody that has done it professionally will tell you that no matter how much schooling you get, the real world application is what teaches you this craft. School can't provide that because, simply, it's school. If it was real world then it wouldn't be called school. Everything you need to know has to be learned through trial and error and doing everything 1 billion times until you get it right. And, on top of that, anything you just can't grasp the concept of or just need a little nudge in the right direction can be attained on forums like this, gearslutz, and several other recording forums that exist. This forum alone can teach you everything from just starting out all the way to advanced techniques for multi-band compression, sidechaining, etc. Stuff that really makes your work take that next level.
If you can't learn how to do everything on this forum, there is something wrong with you.
Another thing about the school deal...if you take that degree to a studio, it will get you an internship - maybe. But you know what else will get you an internship? Just walking in and asking for one. You have to realize that the majority of studios anywhere don't care where you went to school, or how long...they are going to want to know what you can do. It's better to spend your money on gear and spend your time learning it on your own and actually producing a portfolio of work to show somebody. In a school, typically they let you record stuff so that you can get the hang of it. But you are limited to time constraints because there are 1,000 other people that need to use the studio too. That's no way to learn this art at all. You need to have unlimited access to the tools - in other words, your own shit. So you can either A) go to school and spend a bunch of money and have realistically a minimal amount of time actually recording and take that work plus your degree (that's basically worthless) to a studio and get an internship to start with, or B) spend a lot less money on your own equipment and have unlimited time with that equipment to record a few bands and take that to a studio and get the same damn internship. The difference is that you didn't spend nearly as much time getting there, and you spent a shit-ton less money. Plus you own the gear.
I'll take option B.
I think Jeff (JBroll) said it best. Basically he said that when you go to school, for example, for a math degree you can take that degree and the people that look at it know that you know your shit. If you have that piece of paper you know what you are talking about. But when you go somewhere and hand them a piece of paper that says you passed an audio engineering course...all that tells them is that you basically know what shit does. Not necessarily how to make it sound good...you just know how it works. The way I have put it is basically a chopped up version, but you get the point.
~006
Anybody that has done it professionally will tell you that no matter how much schooling you get, the real world application is what teaches you this craft. School can't provide that because, simply, it's school. If it was real world then it wouldn't be called school. Everything you need to know has to be learned through trial and error and doing everything 1 billion times until you get it right. And, on top of that, anything you just can't grasp the concept of or just need a little nudge in the right direction can be attained on forums like this, gearslutz, and several other recording forums that exist. This forum alone can teach you everything from just starting out all the way to advanced techniques for multi-band compression, sidechaining, etc. Stuff that really makes your work take that next level.
If you can't learn how to do everything on this forum, there is something wrong with you.
Another thing about the school deal...if you take that degree to a studio, it will get you an internship - maybe. But you know what else will get you an internship? Just walking in and asking for one. You have to realize that the majority of studios anywhere don't care where you went to school, or how long...they are going to want to know what you can do. It's better to spend your money on gear and spend your time learning it on your own and actually producing a portfolio of work to show somebody. In a school, typically they let you record stuff so that you can get the hang of it. But you are limited to time constraints because there are 1,000 other people that need to use the studio too. That's no way to learn this art at all. You need to have unlimited access to the tools - in other words, your own shit. So you can either A) go to school and spend a bunch of money and have realistically a minimal amount of time actually recording and take that work plus your degree (that's basically worthless) to a studio and get an internship to start with, or B) spend a lot less money on your own equipment and have unlimited time with that equipment to record a few bands and take that to a studio and get the same damn internship. The difference is that you didn't spend nearly as much time getting there, and you spent a shit-ton less money. Plus you own the gear.
I'll take option B.
I think Jeff (JBroll) said it best. Basically he said that when you go to school, for example, for a math degree you can take that degree and the people that look at it know that you know your shit. If you have that piece of paper you know what you are talking about. But when you go somewhere and hand them a piece of paper that says you passed an audio engineering course...all that tells them is that you basically know what shit does. Not necessarily how to make it sound good...you just know how it works. The way I have put it is basically a chopped up version, but you get the point.
~006
I wouldn't bother with college or university if you already have an idea of how to use the equipment.
I would recommend you buy your own equipment if possible list below,
Protools Mix 24
Drawmer 1960
SSL900k preamps
NEVE preamps
Sampler
Synth
Record loads of bands
But I live in the UK in Andy Sneaps back garden behined the garbage cans and beer crates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seizure.
Member
To be honest, I'd recommend doing it both ways- buy some gear and get stuff up and running in your bedroom and try get working with people- but also if you can do the school thing too then go for it. There's a good few pro's to going to school that don't always get mentioned. Like i've being doing a course and I'm in 3rd year now but they just got their act together and got some studios built. There's not a chance I'd get to use d command desks, Yahama O2R's with pro tools hd in a proper studio situation with class mics if i went my own route- even assuming I was succesful I still wouldn't have the 4 different desks they've got there to learn on
Because my course wasn't the best I went and got my own little set-up so now i'm getting a good bit of experience from the studio- more than if i'd not gotten my own gear cause now I know what to do with it and get to learn pro tools.
ahh i'm harping on too much. Basically going to school gets you good gear experience you wouldn't normally get in any other situation especially at the early stage. Also you get to meet other like minded people. I do still recommend trying to get your own stuff together too cause as soon as your gone from college you've none of their gear to work on anymore.
Because my course wasn't the best I went and got my own little set-up so now i'm getting a good bit of experience from the studio- more than if i'd not gotten my own gear cause now I know what to do with it and get to learn pro tools.
ahh i'm harping on too much. Basically going to school gets you good gear experience you wouldn't normally get in any other situation especially at the early stage. Also you get to meet other like minded people. I do still recommend trying to get your own stuff together too cause as soon as your gone from college you've none of their gear to work on anymore.
Right. That hasn't been denied at all. In fact thats the entire point of the argument against going to school for AE'ing, or the only good thing I should say. The only good part of it is that you typically are able to use all kinds of gear that otherwise you wouldn't be able to, mainly because of cost. But still...all the course(s) teach is what those things do, and maybe you grasp how to use them a little bit...but really learning a compressor takes time. Every compressor has it's own character or lack of character...it has to be learned from using it over and over. How are you going to use it over and over if your time with it is limited because of 600 other people that need to get time with it as well? This goes not only for compressors, but preamps, eq's, limiters, reverbs, gates...you name it. Anything that is used has to be learned because it's all different.
For example...I want to get some kind of dual mono preamp that is really good, perhaps one of Vintech's Neve clones. I've heard recordings where they have been used, so I know what it is capable of and what kind of color and character it has. So if I buy it, do you think I will just throw it in the rack and not mess with it until a band comes over to record and I get a chance to use it? Assuming that it will get that sound I've heard before right off the bat? No. I'm going to mess with it, for hours upon hours. Because even though I've heard it, maybe even seen somebody use it...I have no idea how it feels to me. That's the only elaborate explanation I can give for what I'm talking about above.
~006
For example...I want to get some kind of dual mono preamp that is really good, perhaps one of Vintech's Neve clones. I've heard recordings where they have been used, so I know what it is capable of and what kind of color and character it has. So if I buy it, do you think I will just throw it in the rack and not mess with it until a band comes over to record and I get a chance to use it? Assuming that it will get that sound I've heard before right off the bat? No. I'm going to mess with it, for hours upon hours. Because even though I've heard it, maybe even seen somebody use it...I have no idea how it feels to me. That's the only elaborate explanation I can give for what I'm talking about above.
~006
I went to school for Music Engineering Technology with a double major in applied physics at a large university. After 2 years, the physics courses pulled me towards a degree in nuclear medicine. The university approach to a music degree took 100% of any fun I had in music away and shifted the ideals of making music sound GOOD to pretty much knowing how things worked and acoustic sciences. While it was good stuff to learn, IME it stripped away the artistic aspect and went overboard on technical things that were not as important in the overall picture...Also, I had to take classical lessons on the instrument of my choosing...Again, that took time away (quite a bit, actually) from actually learning about audio engineering.
To top it off, I was in the prof's office who oversaw the program and was looking through the past gruaduates list and saw that probably 90% of them were working at music stores...ouch.
I ended up going back a couple years ago with my band so a dude could record us for his senior project - which is a big to do for graduating seniors and very important to their grades.
The university has a whole floor dedicated to their studio and is by far the nicest studio I've ever seen, and I'd wager heavily it's one of the nicest in USA...and this dude's work sounded like shit. Hopefully it didn't speak for the whole program. Supposedly, the dude said he had a job lined up already at Curb records studios in Nashville? I have no clue how they'd ever let him behind the boards without some SERIOUS real world experience.
To top it off, I was in the prof's office who oversaw the program and was looking through the past gruaduates list and saw that probably 90% of them were working at music stores...ouch.
I ended up going back a couple years ago with my band so a dude could record us for his senior project - which is a big to do for graduating seniors and very important to their grades.
The university has a whole floor dedicated to their studio and is by far the nicest studio I've ever seen, and I'd wager heavily it's one of the nicest in USA...and this dude's work sounded like shit. Hopefully it didn't speak for the whole program. Supposedly, the dude said he had a job lined up already at Curb records studios in Nashville? I have no clue how they'd ever let him behind the boards without some SERIOUS real world experience.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
Do both and go to a cheap community college or state school and pay next to nothing.
Each semester I end up paying $300 out of pocket for school (NYS pays for the rest). This is nothing. It's nice to have access to some upper end shit as well as learn about some principals of sound.
But I agree with others going to school to learn how to record is stupid. You learn to record by recording.
Each semester I end up paying $300 out of pocket for school (NYS pays for the rest). This is nothing. It's nice to have access to some upper end shit as well as learn about some principals of sound.
But I agree with others going to school to learn how to record is stupid. You learn to record by recording.
Force666
Member
- Sep 12, 2007
- 1,096
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If you ARE going to go to school to a get a degree, just to get a degree...then I say go for it. Add on something like electric engineering so you have something else to fall back on.
I'de rather have a degree in Audio and work at Starbuck's than have a degree in whatever else and work at Starbuck's.
I'de rather have a degree in Audio and work at Starbuck's than have a degree in whatever else and work at Starbuck's.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap-151/
Take your tuition money and get yourself some gear and a head start on local bands. If you're going to study, study something with definite standards, something that can actually be represented by a degree. AE is a lot like art in that there's so much subjectivity that there is no real way to determine if a degree means anything - just like countless composers didn't finish music school, the producers you're listening to every day learned everything in the studio. If you want to get a degree in the sciences - math and physics can be handy as hell, along with electrical engineering if you're more of a 'grind-through-everything-and-hope-for-the-best' type than a mad scientist - you'll have something that actually holds value because those degrees are established, rigorous, and held to actual standards.
Jeff
Take your tuition money and get yourself some gear and a head start on local bands. If you're going to study, study something with definite standards, something that can actually be represented by a degree. AE is a lot like art in that there's so much subjectivity that there is no real way to determine if a degree means anything - just like countless composers didn't finish music school, the producers you're listening to every day learned everything in the studio. If you want to get a degree in the sciences - math and physics can be handy as hell, along with electrical engineering if you're more of a 'grind-through-everything-and-hope-for-the-best' type than a mad scientist - you'll have something that actually holds value because those degrees are established, rigorous, and held to actual standards.
Jeff
MetalJonesy
more metal, more booze!!!
im all for the fact that you cant be taught mixing as such, but im gonna head off and do a sound engineering and design BSc degree in september, as well as being taught the basics and advanced parts of the industry i get to mix etc, but that stuff is all subjective, and you dont get marked on your actual mix, more of the knowledge of how to use and apply stuff like plugins or gear.
the reason im going to get the BSc in Sound Engineering and Design is that you are taken more seriously for careers around here, yeah i love mixing, but i love engineering, i already have a National Diploma in electrical engineering, plus i can go into all sorts of careers with the Sound Engineering and Design (studio acoustics for builing contractors, live sound, loudspeaker design and manufacture, microphone design, tv and theatre sound, studio sound engineering/mixing, teaching) so its not all bad, just as long as you do a respectable course.
the reason im going to get the BSc in Sound Engineering and Design is that you are taken more seriously for careers around here, yeah i love mixing, but i love engineering, i already have a National Diploma in electrical engineering, plus i can go into all sorts of careers with the Sound Engineering and Design (studio acoustics for builing contractors, live sound, loudspeaker design and manufacture, microphone design, tv and theatre sound, studio sound engineering/mixing, teaching) so its not all bad, just as long as you do a respectable course.
Well, as long as you know that experience and good example mixes get you hired much more often than a degree (especially a degree in 'how to use and apply stuff'... just find anyone here who H2O'd the Waves plugins and Nuendo and you'll see that 'how to use' and 'how to use well' can be *VERY* different), you should be better off than a lot of people who spend their time on that.
Jeff
Jeff
MetalJonesy
more metal, more booze!!!
oh i can use waves, nuendo, and loadsa other stuff well, i spend half my time of the day on em, just in the UK if youve got a degree then they are more likely to look (listen) to your work. But like i said i love the background stuff about sound engineering, not just mixing
