BOOSTING 6505+ WITH MAXON OD808?

[JBroll]

No, it won't. Transistor and op-amp gain stages are used in a lot of tube amps; even with the gain on 0 there is some distortion from the pedal so by that logic the TS should make everything sound 'solidstate' just by being there. More than a handful of people (including many mentioned in the threads on the various TS pedals) use pedal gain to their advantage. The settings Sneap himself posted had the gain on 9:00, which is not zero, and the albums he works on don't sound like that.

Jeff

 

[Meisterjäger]

that will make his tube 6505 sound solidstate

If it sounds good, and he likes it, who cares?

You come across very strange. I can't tell if you're a snob or if you're just stupid.

 

[JBroll]

Read his past posts. Worst mix of both imaginable.

Jeff

 

[Colonel Sanders]

No, it won't. Transistor and op-amp gain stages are used in a lot of tube amps; even with the gain on 0 there is some distortion from the pedal so by that logic the TS should make everything sound 'solidstate' just by being there. More than a handful of people (including many mentioned in the threads on the various TS pedals) use pedal gain to their advantage. The settings Sneap himself posted had the gain on 9:00, which is not zero, and the albums he works on don't sound like that.

Jeff

ok, i see i can learn much from you, it just made me mad when you called me a reatard (i think you did, or maybe i just know i am one)

 

[JBroll]

Yeah, here's the deal... it seems that everything you've learned came from bullshit you found on HCAF or in a guitar shop. This is a problem. It is common and understandable, without a doubt, but it is still wrong.

To condense the reasons I win into a single post for convenience's sake... I'm a graduate math and physics student who has been taking electronics apart and figuring out how they work for over a decade (literally teaching myself some of the BASIC computer language before most children could assemble sentences), and I write lengthy articles about how various electronic devices (including the TS, of all things) operate... in ways that are understandable by musicians. I also seem to do that quite well; so well, in fact, that one could almost come to the conclusion that I know what I'm talking about.

If I say something, you have every right and all the encouragement in the world to try to correct me... if you can back it up. Otherwise, that's not a good idea.

Jeff

 

[Colonel Sanders]

^ roger that

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

I think it comes down to the old Playstation vs Xbox vs Nintendo thing. This one has these bits and that one has this graphic thingy and blah blah blah blah!

Go and try them all! Beg borrow or steal an 8o8 or an sd1 or an mt2 or whatever boost people recommend. Do the homework and compare the subtleties between them all. Okay, it might take some hours acquiring all these pedals, but at the end of the day, its that holy grail sound that we are after and a bit of detective work and some sacrifices arent much to ask as musos. Thats half the reasons we frequent sites such as this.

I would go..... try everything and anything first
Then trust your ears second
and if you still cant come to a conclusion, Jbroll 3rd

I like the Mt2 as a boost at low volumes (bedroom levels) with 60% gain from the amp and the Maxon od 808 at higher volumes (jamming and gigging levels) with 10% - 25% gain.

Happy hunting!

 

[JBroll]

That analogy might work if the PS and XBox had the same games, controllers, and appearance, and differed only in the shade of blue that came out. But I do fully agree with trying everything (ESPECIALLY cheap things you'd normally overlook, like the SD-1) provided you factor in actual verifiable knowledge (like the functions of the circuits and such, which I bring into discussions wherever applicable) instead of forever chasing 'mojo' bullshit.

Jeff

 

[JBroll]

And now I'm going to stop holding my tongue and say what I should have said - although sound is the top priority, there is NOTHING to lose from trusting mathematics if it's in its proper place and you know what to make of it. There is no arguing with mathematics, period, end of discussion, so when someone who knows it well comes along and figures out the ACTUAL DIFFERENCES between things it is FUCKING STUPID to ignore it unless you really love WASTING A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY. I have recommended the TS7 and SD-1 to many people who would not have tried them otherwise; to the best of my knowledge not one feels that s/he was steered wrong... rarely do people trust their ears with cheaper gear, though, because they want to be part of a fictitious elite few who can hear the difference between a $100 copy of a circuit and a $10 copy of a circuit - whether there is one or not - or between two copies of the same circuit made of the same components with two different brand stickers - whether they're discernible through a given rig or not. So, given that the circumstances necessary for truly trusting one's ears with tiny differences like these are well beyond convenient (blind tests of many pedals - including several of each make - through several rigs), there are MANY circumstances where trusting mathematics first (like finding differences between TS models) is the best option.

I'd like to know exactly where you got the impression that the TS models were so different, honestly... people love hearing differences that aren't there. It's too obscenely far from PS vs XBox vs GC for words, so that analogy is very poorly placed. Circuit analysis can tell you that... and save you tons of money by just redirecting you to the TS7 and, if necessary, the TS9->TS808 mod if you have a truly phenomenal setup.

Jeff

 

[crillemannen]

I can't imagine anyone want to get dimebag's guitar tone, simply because it sounds like shit

 

[cobhc]

I can't imagine anyone want to get dimebag's guitar tone, simply because it sounds like shit

In your opinion. Bloodbath's live tone sucks IMO, but some people love it. I like the band, just not the tone. Each to their own.

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

That analogy might work if the PS and XBox had the same games, controllers, and appearance, and differed only in the shade of blue that came out. But I do fully agree with trying everything (ESPECIALLY cheap things you'd normally overlook, like the SD-1) provided you factor in actual verifiable knowledge (like the functions of the circuits and such, which I bring into discussions wherever applicable) instead of forever chasing 'mojo' bullshit.

Jeff

(provided you factor in actual verifiable knowledge)........WHAT!

Fair dinkum mate, just plug the f@$#er in and see how it sounds!

I might as well pull apart everything I own, guitar, pickups, strings, amps etc etc and study the in and outs of a cats arse, then put it all back together (knowing that I have acquired verifiable knowledge) and go back to the point I started at.

Plug in, play,dig it........it stays!

Plug in, play, sounds like s#$t.......f#$k it off! SIMPLE!

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

And now I'm going to stop holding my tongue and say what I should have said - although sound is the top priority, there is NOTHING to lose from trusting mathematics if it's in its proper place and you know what to make of it. There is no arguing with mathematics, period, end of discussion, so when someone who knows it well comes along and figures out the ACTUAL DIFFERENCES between things it is FUCKING STUPID to ignore it unless you really love WASTING A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY. I have recommended the TS7 and SD-1 to many people who would not have tried them otherwise; to the best of my knowledge not one feels that s/he was steered wrong... rarely do people trust their ears with cheaper gear, though, because they want to be part of a fictitious elite few who can hear the difference between a $100 copy of a circuit and a $10 copy of a circuit - whether there is one or not - or between two copies of the same circuit made of the same components with two different brand stickers - whether they're discernible through a given rig or not. So, given that the circumstances necessary for truly trusting one's ears with tiny differences like these are well beyond convenient (blind tests of many pedals - including several of each make - through several rigs), there are MANY circumstances where trusting mathematics first (like finding differences between TS models) is the best option.

I'd like to know exactly where you got the impression that the TS models were so different, honestly... people love hearing differences that aren't there. It's too obscenely far from PS vs XBox vs GC for words, so that analogy is very poorly placed. Circuit analysis can tell you that... and save you tons of money by just redirecting you to the TS7 and, if necessary, the TS9->TS808 mod if you have a truly phenomenal setup.

Jeff

Truth.

I was going to buy the maxon 808 or whatever nonsense for a hundred bucks, but then I read this fellow's thread on it and went with the TS7. It works great. Thanks to JBroll for saving me sixty bucks or so.

 

[cobhc]

(provided you factor in actual verifiable knowledge)........WHAT!

Fair dinkum mate, just plug the f@$#er in and see how it sounds!

I might as well pull apart everything I own, guitar, pickups, strings, amps etc etc and study the in and outs of a cats arse, then put it all back together (knowing that I have acquired verifiable knowledge) and go back to the point I started at.

Plug in, play,dig it........it stays!

Plug in, play, sounds like s#.......f# it off! SIMPLE!

Trust me, don't question, or take the piss out of anything JBroll says when it comes to electronics, you DO NOT want to open that can of worms.

 

[JBroll]

(provided you factor in actual verifiable knowledge)........WHAT!

Fair dinkum mate, just plug the f@$#er in and see how it sounds!

I might as well pull apart everything I own, guitar, pickups, strings, amps etc etc and study the in and outs of a cats arse, then put it all back together (knowing that I have acquired verifiable knowledge) and go back to the point I started at.

Plug in, play,dig it........it stays!

Plug in, play, sounds like s#.......f# it off! SIMPLE!

Knowing how things work keeps you away from snake oil bullshit. It stops you from spending fifty dollars on a mod that costs fifty cents, from spending $200 on a pedal identical to one that costs $40, and (as Harmony Central users need to learn) looking like a total ass by saying you can hear a difference between things that are not different at all just because you want to be perceived as a supernatural tone guru. I don't disagree with using what sounds good, but it maximizes your potential to sound good by keeping you away from stupid nonsense. THAT is why I'm around and why I constantly bring science and mathematics into anything they apply to - there are verifiable standards and concrete facts that can make a lot of things better and easier for a lot of people.

If you can take things apart to learn how they work... for fuck's sake, do it! You'll be much more aware of what you can do and much more capable of handling everything from upgrades to repairs. The fact that one thing can be just true and another thing can be just false is beautiful and impossible to value too highly.

Jeff

 

[Gregg]

It's not one or the other, it's both. A crappy player WILL make good gear sound bad, but a good player alone will not sound good on bad gear.

a good player can play bad gear and still sound good. A bad player still bad on good gear.

 

[RiF]

There are different types of "boosting" that work for me besides going straight into the amp. Which one works depends on a lot of things for me, possibly including some irrational ones (like day-of-week...). That said, it's good to have some options.
My options are:

• Straight into the amp. Most natural tone with the widest frequency spectrum (especially bass-wise). Not the "common metal tone" though, which is TS9->Recto/5150->Mesa V30->SM57 across the board.
• DIY OD808: Does the mid-boost + bass cut thing to make a tighter bass and give it a little boost. Drive usually at 0, tone noon, level to taste. A TubeScreamer or Bad Monkey do the same thing.
• Boss SD-1: A little less mid-honkey, less bass-cut, less tight result. I am using this one less than his "green" cousin.
• Boss GE-7 Equalizer: Gives up to 15 dB of boost and I can dial in the amount of mid boost or bass cut or whatever by myself. My 1994 GE-7 has a "tone of it's own" (like in: no, it's not a clean boost) which I sometimes like also.

 

[Gregg]

I tried the boss ge7 eq, its a keeley mod one. Took a lil messing with it to get a sound i liked, but once i did it was worth the time messing with it. Also got a keeley metalzone. Going to try it with gain off, just use eq and volume to boost.