Calling all Opeth homos

[Crimson Velvet]

I'll grant you that on point 2, but point 1 & 3 are irrefutable. Still, no point in arguing with fanboys...

 

[Valerie]

but point 1 & 3 are irrefutable.

Why? You still haven't given any facts to support your claims.

If the existence of Opeth's music offends you so much, then by all means, go kill yourself for giving a shit about what other people like.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Do I really have to "prove" that Opeth strived more and mroe to sound "proggy" as the releases flew by? Have you even heard them? Also, can't you tell that "heavy-part-soft-part-heavy-part-etc-with-no-real-purpose-beyond-being-dynamic" has been a vital part of Opeth's trademark sound pretty much since "My Arms..."? The only deviation being "Damnation", but that's not really a point in their favour, as that was really just watered down versions of prior soft songs. Do you honestly need me to specify passages and notes for this to be comprehended or are you being obtuse for the sake of you favourite little band?

 

[v2kv]

Maybe because it's one of the very albums in which their sound wasn't based on a fucking formula?

Their sound isn't based on a formula, that's simply their style.
The way you plainly put it makes it sound as if any band that wants to sound like Opeth can easily do so.

 

[S<issors]

FACTS

These are pretty much all opinions, obviously, so I don't think clamoring for "facts" when you're discussing musical criticism makes much sense.

That said,

@Valerie:

Maybe because it's one of the few albums in which they didn't focus all their energy into trying to sound as "proggy" and "intellectual" as possible? Maybe because it's one of the few albums in which they demonstrated some metallic energy and attitude, rather than trying to sound as "mature" and "intellectual" as possible? Maybe because it's one of the very albums in which their sound wasn't based on a fucking formula?

I disagree with most all of this. I like Orchid, but it's a formative and unstructured LP. Look at The Apostle In Triumph (a song I love); it's all over the fucking place. The album is definitely as "proggy" as anything they've ever done.

I'm also honestly confused as to how you can consider it a less pretentious ("...trying to sound as 'mature' and 'intellectual' as possible...") work than any of their other stuff. Prog metal's a pretentious field, so I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but the lyrics on Orchid are "absolute black metal nonsense" in Mike's own words and there's plenty of silly noodly crap thrown in there (the beginning of The Apostle In Triumph, while cool, is from fairly deep left field).

I feel like the songs are reaching for the kind of structure -which you interpret as a "formula"- that they'd find later on, not reveling in "metallic energy" or whatever.

Do I really have to "prove" that Opeth strived more and mroe to sound "proggy" as the releases flew by? Have you even heard them? Also, can't you tell that "heavy-part-soft-part-heavy-part-etc-with-no-real-purpose-beyond-being-dynamic" has been a vital part of Opeth's trademark sound pretty much since "My Arms..."? The only deviation being "Damnation", but that's not really a point in their favour, as that was really just watered down versions of prior soft songs. Do you honestly need me to specify passages and notes for this to be comprehended or are you being obtuse for the sake of you favourite little band?

This is silly. "No purpose beyond being dynamic?" So being dynamic is a bad thing to shoot for, now?

What people seem to be missing is that having a sound or a style doesn't equate with a formula as v2kv so aptly pointed out. And, as anyone who's given all of Opeth's albums a listen can tell you, they've done plenty of experimentation within their style, not to mention breaking out plenty of straight metal or straight mellow tunes. It's the people who try to pigeonhole them that are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Valerie]

Do I really have to "prove" that Opeth strived more and mroe to sound "proggy" as the releases flew by? Have you even heard them? Also, can't you tell that "heavy-part-soft-part-heavy-part-etc-with-no-real-purpose-beyond-being-dynamic" has been a vital part of Opeth's trademark sound pretty much since "My Arms..."? The only deviation being "Damnation", but that's not really a point in their favour, as that was really just watered down versions of prior soft songs. Do you honestly need me to specify passages and notes for this to be comprehended or are you being obtuse for the sake of you favourite little band?

The point of my involvement in this thread is to make a mockery of the elitest faggots that think they have music all figured out. "That's good, that's bad, that's pretentious, I know the exact intentions of the musicians for writing what they did, everything I say is correct and anyone that disagrees is being obtuse for the sake of their favorite little band."

Shut. The fuck. Up.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

valerie, I think you would have better luck just being a groupie or something. Leave musical discussions to people who at least have an inkling of what the concept entails.

I disagree with most all of this. I like Orchid, but it's a formative and unstructured LP. Look at The Apostle In Triumph (a song I love); it's all over the fucking place. The album is definitely as "proggy" as anything they've ever done.

This is silly. "No purpose beyond being dynamic?" So being dynamic is a bad thing to shoot for, now?

1st Point: Absolutely, I agree! But at least it was an honest expression...

2nd Point: Dynamics for dynamics sake are just tedious and ruins the flow of the song.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

...how do you know about how honest it was? Can you read their minds?

 

[S<issors]

2nd Point: Dynamics for dynamics sake are just tedious and ruins the flow of the song.

I think it works more often than it doesn't, but I will agree that some of their better songs are the ones where they stick to one "style" (BWP has one acoustic section but it's all harsh vocals, a lot of the stuff on Damnation is killer, Burden and A Fair Judgement stay consistent, etc). In general I enjoy dynamic music, though, and like I said I think Opeth are pretty good at putting it together. Look at the Lotus Eater!

 

[Valerie]

valerie, I think you would have better luck just being a groupie or something. Leave musical discussions to people who at least have an inkling of what the concept entails.

Either your Norwegian ass has a fish stuck up it or you have a bunch of oil in your brain; what makes you think you understand music so well? Does stating a seemingly baseless (since, you know, you've never actually explained why you think what you do) opinion suddenly make you "understand" music?

I like how you didn't defend yourself against my last post.

I'm not trying to defend Opeth or any band against accusations of bad music; like I said, I'm sick and tired of all the anal retards like yourself that think they know everything. Music is music, music is art, it isn't inherently good or bad.

 

[Matt]

If that's a joke, it's pretty funny because no one could possibly be that retarded. That statement is something on par with the humorous ignorance of Dubya.

If it is not a joke, then you're the joke.

You sound offended by my opinion. I suggest acquiring some taste, quickly.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Orchid undeniably kicks ass. Not sure what you're smokin', Mathias.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

...how do you know about how honest it was? Can you read their minds?

I'll use Blackwater Park for this purpose, as that's the last Opeth I listened to with any vigour at all.

I base that observation on the same thing that people who say that "Kill 'Em All" is a more honest expression than "Load" base their observation on. Song writing with more focus on conventional, proven methods in the disguise of progression, smoother production values, lyrics that has lost all resemblance to personal pertinence. And most of all, persona. I remember seeing them live in '97 or something, and they were just cool guys, really loving what they were doing. After the gig, they came out and had a few drinks, their eyes brimming with joy when someone complimented them. Now... well, most of you have been to Opeth gig at this point, I'll imagine. They're about as good guys as a few Norwegian black metal has-beens I could mention...

@valerie: I am not going to defend having a fucking opinion to you. General Music Discussion. Yeah, opinions = bad.

 

[Valerie]

Opinions aren't the things I have issues with, it's the high and mighty attitude that you and others have, making it look like your opinions are fact and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong.

 

[v2kv]

...how do you know about how honest it was? Can you read their minds?

Hell yes, using his amazing elitist super powers.

 

[King Richard]

I'll use Blackwater Park for this purpose, as that's the last Opeth I listened to with any vigour at all.

I base that observation on the same thing that people who say that "Kill 'Em All" is a more honest expression than "Load" base their observation on. Song writing with more focus on conventional, proven methods in the disguise of progression, smoother production values, lyrics that has lost all resemblance to personal pertinence. And most of all, persona. I remember seeing them live in '97 or something, and they were just cool guys, really loving what they were doing. After the gig, they came out and had a few drinks, their eyes brimming with joy when someone complimented them. Now... well, most of you have been to Opeth gig at this point, I'll imagine. They're about as good guys as a few Norwegian black metal has-beens I could mention...

@valerie: I am not going to defend having a fucking opinion to you. General Music Discussion. Yeah, opinions = bad.

If that was supposed to be an example of your astute logic on Opeth, then you just tripped and fell and broke your fucking face. You pretty much just nullified your entire argument with the first line in your post.

Btw, a few of us on the board destroyed that whole "formula" argument not that long ago. Apparently you missed it.

 

[Tallerthanatree]

I was somewhat disappointed with Ghost Reveries, so I havent been paying all that much attention to them since, save for the older albums. I may still pick up the new release, but I'm not creaming myself over it.

 

[Cythraul]

Opinions aren't the things I have issues with, it's the high and mighty attitude that you and others have, making it look like your opinions are fact and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong.

So should everybody who wants to state an opinion start every fucking post with "I know this is just my opinion and I don't mean to say it's a fact like this is totally just my opinion and stuff man like seriously I don't want to offend anybody"?

 

[Ender Rises]

lyrics that has lost all resemblance to personal pertinence.

Go listen to Bleak, or Harvest. Shut the fuck up.

 

[DarkBliss]

Maybe at least try to phrase those opinions with a certain degree of wit? Like Carcassian, and the catfish guy, for instance.
This may require extra effort, but at least then it will be more interesting to read, than the casual "ur gay lawlz" or similar pretentious babboonery. Nothing against you personally, Cyth, just saying.