Can anyone compare the M-Audio Profire 610/2626 and RME Fireface 400?

ParsonsMatt

Alas, Tyranny
Nov 15, 2006
2,124
1
38
Athens, GA
www.myspace.com
Hey everyone,

Thinking about ditching the Presonus Firestudio Project and getting something else... specifically either the M-Audio Profire 610/2626 or the RME Fireface 400.

The 610 right now is the cheapest option. It appears to share the same preamps and converters as the 2626, which is better than the Presonus gear, so it would be a step up in quality. However, it is pretty limited in expansion options, and is pretty rare on the used market. The 2626 has more preamps and ADAT, but the mic inputs are on the back and thats an annoyance I'd rather not deal with.

The RME Fireface 400 looks like the best option... if I can find a used one, and can afford it. 2 mic pres on the front, supposedly excellent quality, and ADAT for expansion later on.

Is the RME worth the extra cash?
 
Search function would be best since I know this has been discussed, but...

IMO, the 610 really shouldn't be an option if you need to reamp/want to expand at all the in the future, especially since it's not THAT much cheaper than a 2626.

The FF400 isn't all that much cheaper than the FF800, either, and lacks 2 pres + an extra ADAT in, so you'd only get like 12-14 max, in the end, with a bunch of outboard stuff. I've looked at both on eBay... the 400's are like 700-900, and the 800's are 800-1100 or so. It's not that much more to get the 2 extra onboard pres, adat in, and volume control on the front (vs software control on the 400).

So, if you compare the 2626 and FF800, you're looking at 2 things: Do you want to run PT? + is an extra ~$400 worth the upgrade in conversion to you?

I actually went through this in the last two weeks, and decided to go with the 2626 since 1.) I want to run PT, in some capacity, and 2.) I really just can't justify the advantages of the FF800 when I'm about to move into a college dorm.

YMMV, though!
 
I did use the search function but it didn't return many results and no comparisons. I might have searched wrong of course.

Yeah, the 610 would be a temporary solution, until I upgraded again later on. Of course thats another buy/sell step... and I'd like to avoid those as much as possible.

I don't really care about PT, I am happy with Reaper at the moment. I plan on recording direct with an Axe-FX, so the most important things are the conversion and quality of mic preamps. The Profire 2626 looks annoying with the mic inputs in the back. I have heard that the Profire 2626 and the RME have basically the same conversion sound from other researching, but what I have not really heard is whether or not the RME is worth the extra cash for the preamps.

I have noticed that about the FF400... the used value seems to be about where the FF800 is. In that case, the 800 is definitely the better choice, even though the 400 would be fine for my long term needs ( and if I ever outgrew it, I'd be a lot deeper into this recording thing than I thought I would be! )
 
In your defense, you can't effectively search for the phrase '610' :lol:.

I've not read too much on it, but all sources point to the 800 having better conversion than the 2626. RME is known for it's badass conversion and rock-solid drivers/stability, so I'd guess that it has the upper hand in both of those categories. It also has that awesome routing matrix software, if you'd use that kind of thing.

The pres will be about the same on both - octave vs stock fireface pres isn't a huge difference. Both will be pretty clean and un-coloring, but I'd guess RME might be a bit cleaner if you really want to be picky. I doubt anyone would notice a huge difference, to be honest.

If you can swing it, I'd go for the 800 - it's definitely a very professional piece of hardware and would avoid an inevitable buy/sell cycle I'm guessing you'd go through with either ProFires.
 
From my site, inspired by a thread here two weeks ago:

Until today I thought the M-Audio Profire 610 and 2626 were the same with different I/O count. Perhaps this is my own ignorance, but I’m sure I’m not the only one thinking this.

On a forum a member was having trouble re-amping with his 610. The 2626 owners have no problems re-amping so I decided to compare the specs on the Line outs of each interface.

Profire 2626 Line Outputs (Balanced)

* Frequency Response +/- 0.1dB, 20Hz to 22kHz
* +/- 0.6dB, 20Hz to 80kHz (192kHz)
* Dynamic Range 110dB, A-weighted
* Signal-to-Noise Ratio -110dB, A-weighted
* THD+N 0.0013% (-98dB), 1kHz, -1dBFS
* Crosstalk < -110dB @ 1kHz
* Maximum Output Level +20.2dBu balanced, typical
* Output Impedance 300 Ohms, balanced

Profire 610 Line Outputs (Balanced)

* Frequency Response +/- 0.1dB, 20Hz to 22kHz
* +/- 0.2dB, 20Hz to 80kHz (192kHz)
* Signal-to-Noise Ratio -108dB (A-weighted)
* Dynamic Range 108dB (A-weighted)
* THD+N 0.0016% (-96dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
* Crosstalk < -105dB @ 1kHz
* Maximum Output Level +15.9dBu balanced, typical
* Output Impedance 940 ohm balanced

So What?

With the Profire 610, you won&#8217;t be able to properly re-amp, especially if you&#8217;re hoping to get Hi-Gain tones from your amp. You will distort the D/A before getting enough level into your re-amp box. The Profire 2626 does not have this issue because it operates at a higher level.

Those aren&#8217;t the only differences, the input stage of the 610 isn&#8217;t as good as the 2626 either. It&#8217;s really unfortunate, the 2626 is a great interface, but it&#8217;s not portable, if the 610 had the same specs in a smaller size it would be really great.

Full specs for the Profire 2626 are here: http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&ID=cf7885739abca27619342a0b303d7346&showing=specs

Full specs for the Profire 610 are here: http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&ID=57e1a41fa1cf5474fc9e3b31383ca0ca&showing=specs
 
Threads I just found:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/358197-m-audio-profire-vs-rme-fireface-details.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/299081-fireface-800-vs-m-audio-profire-2626-a.html

Maybe the FF800 isn't all that much better. :( I want that routing matrix so badly, but don't think I can bring myself to spend an extra $400!

Not to mention this:

hi Matt,
I'm a FF800 user.
The FF400 pre's are leagues beyond what comes in the FF800 or any M-Audio product. The FF400 has RME's Micstacy pre in it.
Also, when it comes to "good" sound quality, I've heard great things about the Steinberg interfaces.

Don't know the truth behind it, but that sure makes it easier to settle on the FF400! :D

On the RME website, the FF800 has better noise/THD specs, and it doesn't say anything about the preamps being different
 
I don't know if I actually believe that. Actually, I don't. It makes zero sense for RME to put such a great feature into a product and then distinctly forget to advertise it.

Yeah, unless they wanted to make it look worse next to the 800, but then... why not put the pres in both?

Never hurts to ask for a comparison though...
 
Well regardless, the price difference between the 400 and 800 is still $500 (not what I'd call insignificant), and I'm sure the 400 has all the converter quality that anyone doing metal will ever need! Think of all the great recordings on here with all manner of gear from low- to high-end; we're tracking everything separately, it's hardly acoustic or airy with tons of subtle details to be captured, and most of it is gonna be eq'ed/comp'ed/processed (or plain replaced :D) to all hell anyway! Better to spend your money on mics/preamps
 
You might want to check this review... There's a 2626 vs 192 i/o and amek pres comparaison.

Of course, the 192 i/o+amek sounds better... Surprise!
Not a *huuuuge* difference tho.


I am expecting my 2626 to arrive today or monday. I'll report.
 
well, i was in the exact same situation as you.
to make things short, i used to own the profire 610 and recently updated to the fireface 400...
i'm actually the user AGZ was mentioning in his comparison post.....and he's dead on. with the 610 you're fucked if you're trying to reamp, that's about it.

i'd say get the fireface BY FAR.

-way better converters: when i switched from the 610 to the fireface i was SHOCKED how much difference there was. the fireface is WAY cleaner, has more detail, better depth, stereo image, better resolution at the extreme low/highs....you know, people always praised the profire converters to be really a step up for m audio, and maybe that's true, but still they're way behind RME quality, that's for sure. this is D/A conversion mainly as it's easier to judge imho. i don't see why things would be different for the A/D side though
-routing matrix ROCKS. total mix is the perfect name....you get total control about everything. and it's friggin easy to do. the profire control panel was very limited in comparison
-preamps: here the difference isn't *that* apparent....i think the RME pres have an edge over the octane ones, but the difference isn't night and day really. both are very neutral and uncolored as someone already said, and imho the RME pres are even more so....which is a great thing imho, so all you need will be one (or more haha) colorful pre's for the mojo stuff, and for everything else or stuff that needs to be as true as possible just use the stock RME pres.
-obvious stuff....the 610 is very limited in terms of future upgrades....it only has spdif, no adat no nothing. the RME is pretty well equipped for pretty much everything you could throw at it. you could always connect better converters, more pre's and whatnot to the RME.....try that with the 610. for the 2626 it's different of course.....but there's one more advantage
-the RME clock is said to be REALLY good. this is also the reason why many higher level project studios tend to base their rig around the fireface....the total mix matrix, connectivity and the great clock just make it a breeze to do so.

so as you can see, i'm a big RME fan over here, haha. it was seriously the best money ever spent on studio gear, especially coming from the profire. luckily i still had money back warranty for the profire so i didn't lose anything :)

there are two not-so-great points though...
-be careful about your firewire chipset: ALWAYS use texas instrument ones! this holds true for pretty much every interface i've heared of though.
i bought the FF from a friend of mine who didn't get it to work properly, and the VIA firewire chipset turned out to be the culprit. but once again, this isn't RME specific at all....just a word of caution.
-at times i found the (WDM?) drivers of the RME to be a bit dodgy....e.g. when i'm running reaper and try to reference some stuff using winamp, i'm sometimes getting error messages as reaper is still blocking the drivers....for some reason i didn't experience this with the profire. i'm not saying that this is a biggie or something, but i felt that i had to mention it to be fair to the poor profire lol.
basically you only have to make sure that reaper or whatever is in offline mode, otherwise it's blocking the drivers. if you've done so it's running smooth as silk though.
overall the RME drivers are said to be REALLY stable though, and so far i can confirm this in the sense that i've never had any reliablity issues as of right now.

regarding the monitor thing, yes it's WAY easier to use if you have a monitor controller....but then again, they're not that expensive, and using one is always a good idea imho.there's just something about having a real analog level control that's independent of what the software is doing...plus you get to use aux ins, several monitor pairs and whatnot....i use the sm audio pro whatever it's called, was like around 120euro or something iirc...

anyways, hope this helps some....if you got any more questions, just ask :)
 
You might want to check this review... There's a 2626 vs 192 i/o and amek pres comparaison.

Of course, the 192 i/o+amek sounds better... Surprise!
Not a *huuuuge* difference tho.

And I'd imagine most of the difference comes from the AMEK pres rather than 192 converters!
 
I don't know about the profire 610 specifically, but I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff (such as the 003, onyx 800r, MOTU, etc) uses the same AKM chip converters that RME does. Tbh...

The days of "superior RME conversion" in the non-Lavry-Mytek-etc.-league are sort of over from what I've gathered. I haven't used anything by RME personally, but again, from what I understand, the Fireface line was superior when it first came out, but other products have caught up since then, and are usually cheaper as well.

But like I said, I haven't used anything by RME, so I can't truly judge the converters based on experience. What I'm telling you is what I've gathered through various internet research.

Technology has come a long way in recent times, and I've posted about this before. Cheap pres and converters are awesome by past standards. So, I'm pretty skeptical/realistic when people talk about hearing huge differences.
 
It's not that much more to get the 2 extra onboard pres, adat in, and volume control on the front (vs software control on the 400).

At least my Fireface 400 has ADAT In/Out, and you can control the volume from the front panel. You can do that separately for different mono/stereo output groups = multiple monitors in one FF400, plus all 4 front panel inputs.
 
I don't know about the profire 610 specifically, but I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff (such as the 003, onyx 800r, MOTU, etc) uses the same AKM chip converters that RME does. Tbh...

The days of "superior RME conversion" in the non-Lavry-Mytek-etc.-league are sort of over from what I've gathered. I haven't used anything by RME personally, but again, from what I understand, the Fireface line was superior when it first came out, but other products have caught up since then, and are usually cheaper as well.

But like I said, I haven't used anything by RME, so I can't truly judge the converters based on experience. What I'm telling you is what I've gathered through various internet research.

Technology has come a long way in recent times, and I've posted about this before. Cheap pres and converters are awesome by past standards. So, I'm pretty skeptical/realistic when people talk about hearing huge differences.


well, as i stated above, i switched directly from the profire 610 to the FF400, and to my ears, there's just no comparison.
this is also NOT some kind of placebo effect, as i sort of was under the impression that while the RME might have the edge as far as converters go, the difference would be neglible (sp) at best - with everyone talking about profire converters being pretty damn good. that's exactly why i was so shocked when i first plugged in the RME.
there is just no comparison, to my ears at least.

my feeling is that the RME is truly a piece of professional gear, that could find it's way into even a "real" studio, whereas the profire is way more prosumer oriented, for the home recordist who needs a cheap yet decent (for HR that is) firewire solution.